Right angle contrail, what could do that?

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Just out of interest...

On Tuesday morning I was heading east on the A171 towards Guisborough and saw a very clear "L" shaped contrail in the sky with only a slight curl at the bottom. It wasn't really an L as the lengths were rather more equal but not quite equal, but you get the idea. It was also distinct as in not having a visible long lead in or out, just as if the pilot meant to leave the shape in the sky. As I was driving I couldn't take a picture so you'll have to take my word for it :D I wish I'd asked Mrs WW to snap it with her phone.

I wondered what can do that? And two things baffled me, the almost right angle turn and the fact that it was so clear with no lead in / out. The lines were so clear and definite and straight surely this couldn't be a natural phenomena?

I suppose since the Harrier was retired the prime suspect would be an F35 or are harriers still flying? Can anything else do an almost perfect right angle turn?

Over to meteorological and plane buffs :D
 
Was the plane still visible? If not it could be due to how the air has moved the trail?
 
TimHughes said:
Was the plane still visible? If not it could be due to how the air has moved the trail?
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No I didn't see anything. The lines were so straight and well defined that it must have happed pretty soon before I saw it or I suppose it would have started to disperse or distort in any wind up there.
 
Baloo said:
Have a look at this video of a Eurofighter and the extreme turns it can make

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJeAjnADHD0
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I didn't see anything in that vid that looked like it but I have seen those in the area so that could well be the answer. As to why they'd do it, I can't guess.

And a PS.
We sometimes see RAF or US warplanes (and hear them too) here and plane spotters tell me they're off out over the north sea to escort the Russians.
 
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Perspective?
 
Pound Coin said:
Perspective?
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I don't know how that could be at play but if you do please expand on the idea.

An aircraft could have gone up or down rather than in one plain but the result is the same, a defined shape in the sky and me left wondering what could cause it.
 
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Graham W said:
Handbrake turn?
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My guess is spider in the cockpit.

seaodyssey said:
Practice.
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If it's an extreme manoeuvre done for practice I'd rather they did it out at sea rather than over a populated area including a massive chemical works. Just in case you're not familiar with the area Wilton Chemical Plant covers 2,000 acres and I really don't want anything crashing into it :D Redcar and Cleveland has a population of over 135k.

Just a thought.
 
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The sharpness of the L could also be the angle from which you were viewing it but still likely to be a fast jet.
 
sirch said:
The sharpness of the L could also be the angle from which you were viewing it but still likely to be a fast jet.
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I don't think so. I wish I'd asked Mrs WW to take a picture,,,

I've never seen a contrail turn so tight. The military jets we see going over and we do see them quite often usually take a long time and distance to turn, this really did look like something special and unusual and my first thought was in flight vectoring Harrier style but I'm not up on military aircraft at all so I've no idea what can do this sort of thing or how normal it is. It's just not something I've seen before and if it's an extreme manoeuvre that could possibly carry some additional risk why would they do it so near populated areas and a massive chemical plant? But that's another set of questions. Maybe it's not too extreme. I don't know.

I think Roger's Typhoon explanation is possibly the best as we do see them, hear them too.

It was just an interesting thing to see and think about :D Thanks all.
 
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woof woof said:
I don't know how that could be at play but if you do please expand on the idea.

An aircraft could have gone up or down rather than in one plain but the result is the same, a defined shape in the sky and me left wondering what could cause it.
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You saw the trail from one viewpoint, so it is possible that it wasn't an 'L', but only looked like that from your viewpoint?
 
Pound Coin said:
You saw the trail from one viewpoint, so it is possible that it wasn't an 'L', but only looked like that from your viewpoint?
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True, but also it could have been an even tighter turn.

As above and I can only report what I saw. The lines were clearly defined and straight and I think this rules out any cloud and/or sheering effect and whatever the change in direction degree was it was certainly and obviously very different to the norm. The lack of length could I suppose be down to conditions and speed. Usually contrails are long and it's very often possible to see the older end degrading but in this case what was there looked sharp and new.

All in all I've never seen anything like it but I've never been to an airshow or seen warplanes out on manoeuvres,
 
A general thought....

What looks like a very sharp turn in the contrail at ground level may not be quite as "tight" and angle as it really was......just high up was the fast jet, 15,000 ? 20,000 ? 25000?

IMO to even see such visible contrail from a fast jet @ altitude is uncommon as they don't create the 'wake' anything like the commercial airliners.

Plus, without knowing the wind conditions at that level the trail may still have drift/been changed without (from the ground) signs of it breaking up.

More questions than answers :thinking:
 
Box Brownie said:
A general thought....

What looks like a very sharp turn in the contrail at ground level may not be quite as "tight" and angle as it really was......just high up was the fast jet, 15,000 ? 20,000 ? 25000?

IMO to even see such visible contrail from a fast jet @ altitude is uncommon as they don't create the 'wake' anything like the commercial airliners.

Plus, without knowing the wind conditions at that level the trail may still have drift/been changed without (from the ground) signs of it breaking up.

More questions than answers :thinking:
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I'm beginning to regret this :D

All I can report is what I saw and this was a distinct almost "L" with a tight turn visible as a slight curve at the base. All I can say is that I've never seen anything like it. A picture would paint 1,000 words but I was driving and didn't think to ask Mrs WW.

As for the wind changing the trail. I've commented on this at least twice above. Wind can IMO only disperse and/or distort the shape, I'd be amazed if wind could make it more defined and/or tighter or move it without dispersing or distorting it.

I think the most likely explanation is a recent manoeuvre by a military jet performing a tighter than I'd expect turn but as to why I can't guess.
 
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In a similar vein, I saw a contrail today that stopped dead for a short while then started again. The plane was still visible at the sharp end of it. It's possible that 2 trails crossed (in WW's situation) and that they both hit the same sort of conditions so the result looked like an L.
 
Nod said:
In a similar vein, I saw a contrail today that stopped dead for a short while then started again. The plane was still visible at the sharp end of it. It's possible that 2 trails crossed (in WW's situation) and that they both hit the same sort of conditions so the result looked like an L.
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I suppose this starting and stopping dead will be explainable by conditions and speed?

About converging planes/trails. I suppose anything is possible but the odds start to go up.

Two trails intersecting perfectly with a curl at the bottom? I think the dds just went up a bit more there and would planes be allowed to fly at near identical heights and interacting angles? It sounds like an air traffic control nightmare.
 
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nog said:
L shaped cloud
DSC00221.jpg by Keith, on Flickr
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That's lovely but it's nothing like what I saw.

If that's what I'd seen I wouldn't have posted about it as it's clearly very cloud like and clearly not very contrail like. What I saw was quite clear and distinct and looked very recent as it was so clear and defined.

Apart from aliens or Nichola Sturgeon I think the best explanation is a military jet performing a tight turn but as I'm vaguely aware that the Harrier has been retired and the F35 is possibly a bit rare I wondered what else could perform such a tight turn. As above, maybe the Typhoon can do something this tight. I don't know but I have seen them and US plans in the area and this has lead onto other questions like, Why would one do this? I've seen military jets in the area but I've never seen one do anything unusual or extreme. Another question is why do something like this so close to populated areas and chemical plants? We're close to the coast here so if there's any "practice" or just fun to be had I'd hope they'd do it a safe distance over the sea.

Anyway. I'm convinced it wasn't a natural phenomena and that leaves a F35 or Typhoon or something American as the most likely suspect for me but as to why? Who knows.
 
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I got up to see this one morning. This is a multi picture panorama taken though glass so sorry about he bird dropping on the window. Someone has had a great time here and here we can see the contrails dispersing whereas what I saw and described in the op looked sharp and new.

hidolBx.jpg


Interesting also that this looks to be directly over the chemical plant and again, if it is, why not do this over the sea? Maybe I'm just worrying unnecessarily.
 
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Possibly a fighter on normal patrol that got an urgent seek and find call .lots going on these days that aren’t made public
 
An F35 can do thrust vectoring like the Harrier where it can move its Jet Nozzles to perform tighter turns but a F22 can’t so I’d remove the F22 from the equation. Even an F35 wouldn’t produce an 90 degree angle though, its still a turn, just a tighter turn than normal.

Only a UFO can literally turn on a dime;)
 
Well, he can't identify it and it was indubitably flying, so it is a UFO!
 
Lot's of diffraction at F22, maybe that was it.
 
As some may know... I claim to have seen a "UFO" when I was a boy. There were a few of us so it wasn't just in my imagination. Of course I'll never know what we saw but I am willing to believe that when people see "UFO's" these days it could well be secret human tech and nothing to do with aliens but that theory starts to look shaky the further back in time we go.

If UFO's are alien that would bring up other interesting and possibly very important and revealing questions such as what are they up to and why do it over my part of the world? Haven't they got better things to do? Maybe space and being an alien is very dull and cruising around the skies of NE England is living your best life.
 
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