Remote controlling Nikon speedlights

[JonathanRyan]

So I'm fed up of using CLS (if only Nikon had put the receiver in a less stupid place...)

What are my options for a radio system for setting power on Nikon speedlights (SB800 / 900)?

I know about the Pocket Wizards and they seem a little pricey. Is my only other option Phottix Odins? They also seems somewhat spendy.

BTW I'm assuming that anything that will let me set power will also let me trigger the lights. Don't really need TTL - manual only would be fine for this.

 

[Michael Sewell]

I use the Radiopopper PX system, which is great when I want CLS or remote manual adjustment, but it is clunky.
The Odin system looks far batter from here.
Keep your eye on Yongnuo YN622 system. It's out now for Canon, and relies on their in camera menu for adjusting speedlights. Nikon of course, utilise commanders, so that is presenting them with an interesting problem.

 

[Wail]

Pocket Wizards and Radio Poppers all do CLS supplements; but there are others less expensive (Far East Asian) brands that are radio triggers that seem to be good (don't know their name, sorry).

 

[ah5168]

The Yongnuo YN-622 are out now for Canon and I think the Nikon version will be out any day soon. They are like the RF-602 but with TTL, multiple groups, high speed sync and about $100 for a TX and RX unit. Should be the answer to everyones prayers, although as usual you may have to wait for the first upgrade before everything works 100% as it should.

 

[jacob12_1993]

How are you having issues with the receiver ryan? I have actually been incredibly impressed by the range of CLS just using the pop-up to trigger (even 20ft+ behind me with my hand to deflect the flash backward, although there are possibly more elegant solutions). I just spin the body so the receiver is towards the camera and the head is pointing towards the subject. Is it the range you need to increase or is it a softbox/modifier blocking the reciever that causing the problem? At the moment I only know of expensive solutions like the ones you posted that could solve the problem.

 

[JonathanRyan]

I use the Radiopopper PX system, which is great when I want CLS or remote manual adjustment, but it is clunky.
The Odin system looks far batter from here.
Keep your eye on Yongnuo YN622 system. It's out now for Canon, and relies on their in camera menu for adjusting speedlights. Nikon of course, utilise commanders, so that is presenting them with an interesting problem.

Oh yeah - I'd forgotten Radio Poppers. IIRC they are fibre optic and clunky.

I understand why 622s work like that but it's a shame. Don't some of the kiddies' Nikons use menus for flash power? Here's hoping they will reengineer them for the grown ups. But in fact I doubt it

Pocket Wizards and Radio Poppers all do CLS supplements; but there are others less expensive (Far East Asian) brands that are radio triggers that seem to be good (don't know their name, sorry).

Don't know of any others that let you change power remotely.

How are you having issues with the receiver ryan? I have actually been incredibly impressed by the range of CLS just using the pop-up to trigger (even 20ft+ behind me with my hand to deflect the flash backward, although there are possibly more elegant solutions). I just spin the body so the receiver is towards the camera and the head is pointing towards the subject. Is it the range you need to increase or is it a softbox/modifier blocking the reciever that causing the problem? At the moment I only know of expensive solutions like the ones you posted that could solve the problem.

(Actually, Ryan is my last name. *Yes, I get that a lot….)

It's mainly wedding first dance. Since the receiver is only on one side if I cross the dancefloor for opposite angles it can sulk. Also people get in the way. Plus even the SB900 isn't exactly easy to change power on 2 other guns at speed.

 

[Michael Sewell]

I understand why 622s work like that but it's a shame. Don't some of the kiddies' Nikons use menus for flash power? Here's hoping they will reengineer them for the grown ups. But in fact I doubt it

The prosumer cams only have menus for the onboard popup flash, and don't influence anything in the hotshoe.
The Odin system looks the best option on spec, and I've seen really good results too.
It's something I'm going to be looking at, and then I'll sell on the RPs

What about the Pixel Kings?

 

[jacob12_1993]

(Actually, Ryan is my last name. *Yes, I get that a lot….)

It's mainly wedding first dance. Since the receiver is only on one side if I cross the dancefloor for opposite angles it can sulk. Also people get in the way. Plus even the SB900 isn't exactly easy to change power on 2 other guns at speed.

haha I know that, don't even know why I wrote Ryan (3am typing for you )

Ahh can you not rotate the body so that it is at 90 degrees to the flash head? Then the reciever should face you? Unless I am missing something which is likely as I am trying to get through a 6 hr airport wait

 

[JonathanRyan]

That works fine until I move.

If I start band side shooting with the DJ lights I'll get one shot. Later in the dance I might want to move to crowd side and shoot the other way. I may need to change power as B&G shuffle in another direction so use CLS but the receivers won't follow me as I move

You’re the first, the last, my everything lasts 3m 25s so I don't have time to reposition lights. Amazed by Lonestar is slightly longer but I generally want to run out of the room before that's finished.

Actually, thinking about it, another set of lights might be cheaper.

 

[jacob12_1993]

That works fine until I move.

If I start band side shooting with the DJ lights I'll get one shot. Later in the dance I might want to move to crowd side and shoot the other way. I may need to change power as B&G shuffle in another direction so use CLS but the receivers won't follow me as I move

You’re the first, the last, my everything lasts 3m 25s so I don't have time to reposition lights. Amazed by Lonestar is slightly longer but I generally want to run out of the room before that's finished.

Actually, thinking about it, another set of lights might be cheaper.

I knew I was missing something, yeah that's a bit of an issue then I just tell my voice activated light stand to move (and obviously don't do weddings ) I don't think there is another solution (presuming you are already using a master flash on the hot shoe rather than the pop-up) that is cheaper, you could get a second flash for the price of PWs etc

 

[JonathanRyan]

I knew I was missing something, yeah that's a bit of an issue then I just tell my voice activated light stand to move (and obviously don't do weddings ) I don't think there is another solution (presuming you are already using a master flash on the hot shoe rather than the pop-up) that is cheaper, you could get a second flash for the price of PWs etc

Your VALs are faster and more dextrous than mine then

Plus pop-up? How very dare you. I paid Nikon an extra £2K per body to remove that....

 

[specialman]

Jonathan, I'm sure there was a hack on strobist a few years back that used a small, curved plastic lens (can't remember off what) but it helped, because of its curved shape, to 'increase' the capture angle of a line-of-sight signal.

TBH, I know people say that the IR signal bouncing around should find its way to that little IR receiver window on the flash, but it annoys me that there aren't two on each flashgun and that the SU-800 doesn't have a domed IR window so you can shoot with flashes behind you.

CLS - good system but with massive flaws.

 

[testbloke]

The prosumer cams only have menus for the onboard popup flash, and don't influence anything in the hotshoe.
The Odin system looks the best option on spec, and I've seen really good results too.
It's something I'm going to be looking at, and then I'll sell on the RPs

What about the Pixel Kings?

My *almost* prosumer D7k does let me adjust the power on remote groups from a camera menu. Still works whether I use pop up or a hotshoe SB as commander.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Jonathan, I'm sure there was a hack on strobist a few years back that used a small, curved plastic lens (can't remember off what) but it helped, because of its curved shape, to 'increase' the capture angle of a line-of-sight signal.

Here you go

 

[Michael Sewell]

My *almost* prosumer D7k does let me adjust the power on remote groups from a camera menu. Still works whether I use pop up or a hotshoe SB as commander.

Does the in camera menu effect the hot shoe mounted speedlight, or only the popup?
As far as I am aware, the onboard camera menu only affects the popup flash. An onboard speedlight can act as a commander, but is set on the speedlight itself.
This would mean the new Yongnuo transmitter cannot receive instructions from the Nikon bodies, as it can from Canon bodies, but would require an input system such as the Phottix Odin etc.

 

[Phil V]

If the cls will fire the flash on manual no matter where you are, you can turn the power up when you move by simply increasing the aperture or ISO.

I still recommend the PW flex system which is expensive but IMO the best solution. allowing groups in either manual or ettl and hss and anything else you can think of.

For the 1st dance I've been using a flash mounted on a stand fired by the PWs for backlit and side lit shots and on camera bounced for a safe shot on the other camera. It's the most relaxed I've ever been for the first dance - I used to mix shooting on camera bounced with controlling the flash on the 2nd shooters camera with the IR system, using hand signals to try to direct:nuts:

 

[JonathanRyan]

Here you go

Ah yes - I vaguely remember that - thanks. Will hunt for some lenses...

If the cls will fire the flash on manual no matter where you are, you can turn the power up when you move by simply increasing the aperture or ISO.

If the CLS will fire it on manual I can change the power. The power setting pulse and fire pulse are sent (almost) together.

But maybe I confused you - it isn't the overall power I need to change. It's the ratios. I.e. power on one light.

 

[itsdavedotnet]

To be honest? Your best bet would probably be a cheapish monoblocs with remote control. Can't comment on that would be best/work well, though the elinchrom sky port and profoto air systems are neat. Think there's several 'offbrand' alternatives - cotswold cameras on eBay do one set with a remote control iirc, as do elemental, and I believe that one other company is shortly to start offering something similar... But these may all have fiddly as hell remotes or terrible recycle times.

If money was no option, a profoto d1 air 250, and a Paul c buff vagabond mini to save having to trail cables would be a nice choice. Or I think that elinchrom have got a system with their wifi sky port that lets you control powers from your iPhone? Sounds pretty neat.

The Nikon and canon systems are neat, but pretty naff for anything other than basic head shots etc IMO. Cls is awesome, but put it in any sort of challenging situation and it goes to pot. Yeah, McNally does all sorts of magic with stringing su800s on the end of ten ttl cords joined together - but that's cos Nikon gve him bucketloads of cash to do so.

 

[JonathanRyan]

Yeah - it won't surprise you to learn I had monos with me. Wouldn't want to plug anything into sockets near DJ kits but I had battery units with cool remote and fast recycle (and to avoid the wrath of the forum pixies I'd best not name them....).

I use the SB800s because they are very small and easy to tuck right next to a speaker stack and less likely to get kicked over by drunks Also you can break them down very fast once the general melée starts.

I also prefer the small light source because I generally shoot 1st dance with very hard light.

 

[Phil V]

...

But maybe I confused you - it isn't the overall power I need to change. It's the ratios. I.e. power on one light.

Well I can't see where you mentioned ratio's only power, and on that point I'm out because the Canon version of CLS will set ratio's from the camera (not quick though - but maybe with practice). Which is one of my options, and I have the PW flex system which also does this quite well - apparently better with an AC3 controller (I don't have yet).

I'd recommend the PW system, but if you want to save money, one of the cheaper copies might do the trick. I'm not sure which ones do what and the YN looks like a very cheap option but it's not available for Nikon yet.

 

[itsdavedotnet]

Yeah - it won't surprise you to learn I had monos with me. Wouldn't want to plug anything into sockets near DJ kits but I had battery units with cool remote and fast recycle (and to avoid the wrath of the forum pixies I'd best not name them....).

I use the SB800s because they are very small and easy to tuck right next to a speaker stack and less likely to get kicked over by drunks Also you can break them down very fast once the general melée starts.

I also prefer the small light source because I generally shoot 1st dance with very hard light.

Not at all surprised and I'm all too familiar with the extra hassle of big lights there's no real/easy/non fiddly solution really - Nikon need to pull their finger out and release a decent, rock solid radio based ttl system like everyone has been asking for for years. for now, with speedlights, it loooooks like pocket wizard tt5 system with an ac3 on camera will be your best bet - though for four units, you'll be looking at a significant chunk of cash

I haven't used canon's rt system yet, but the (on paper) 10m radio range doesn't exactly fill me with confidence about it...