Really glad I spent all that money... NOT

[jamesoliverstone]

Well, after investing in a number of Bowens pro lights I set about buying up modifiers for them. I bought a couple of softboxes, beauty dishes, octabanks and a background reflector. As you can imagine, that little lot cost a pretty penny.

Now I was going to buy a few more but a friend of mine recommended I checked out Elemental for their modifiers. I checked out the site and was naturally a bit skeptical because of the huge price difference between them and Bowens so you wonder where the comprimise is going to be.

Anywho, I spoke to them on the phone and they explained that because they are a smaller company they dont have the overheads that a huge company like Bowens do... fair enough.

I figured that what the hell, they are cheap as chips I will buy a couple of octabanks and some tall full length softboxes with grids.

Well, they arrived next day (today) and I am astounded. Basically they are EXACTLY THE SAME as the Bowens kit... same look, same fittings, same colour and same flipping material and build quality too!

Why oh WHY didnt I find out about these BEFORE I spent a huge chunk of cash on excatly the same products, but with a brand that costs 5 times as much

Unless anyone else has experience with these bits of kit that I should know about, I have built them all and used them and I cannot find a blind bit of difference... I am so angry I could crush a grape

Anyways... rant over and I hope that anyone about to shed out cash on expensive bowens modifiers might want to check out elementals product range instead.

 

[Rough Edges]

When you bought all that Bowens kit, did you tak advice of others? I quickly learnt that there is an awful lot of brand snobbery for one reason or another. Mostly nothing to do with how something performs in use.... I have spent ages reading up on and looking at videos about lighting, because I have done so little and because I want to take the next leap..

Don't forget that Lencarta are Bowens S-fit either and are very well priced.. Well made kit too..
Sounds like you have had a bit of a revalation and feel better for it. I hope it works well for you.

 

[Hairyduck]

you should try buying elinchrom stuff... then you'd be really pee'd off

 

[razor777]

It would be nice if we could compile some form of brand comparison list (column A: Brand, column B: equivalent 'no-brand/not known brand' but just in good in terms of quality) - this way we can better choose what else is out there at a lower price. Not just for lighting too but some form of global list (eg tripods - Gitzo / Induro etc). Unless we already have such a list on the forum?

 

[Mark Anthony]

Without wanting to pee Elemental off, could've been a bad batch but i've tried 2 of their softboxes and the material ripped at the seems on both of them, so i guess i did get what i paid for..

That might make you feel a bit better.

 

[Pete Bird]

I have just bought these.
http://www.stevesphotoshop.co.uk/daylight_fluorescent_lighting_set_bank_seven_bulb_SV350P.html
This site is reasonable quality and he seems a nice guy. I only buy cheap stuff for studio work now as I tend to be a bit 'Enthusiastic' with wizzing about when shooting studio stuff. I don't understand Brand Name buying, to me if it does the job then its fine, spending money on expensive lighting will not give better results. Its the size of the light source not how powerful they are.
You don't need the best, you just need to know how to use the things.

 

[jamesoliverstone]

When you bought all that Bowens kit, did you tak advice of others? I quickly learnt that there is an awful lot of brand snobbery for one reason or another. Mostly nothing to do with how something performs in use.... I have spent ages reading up on and looking at videos about lighting, because I have done so little and because I want to take the next leap..

Don't forget that Lencarta are Bowens S-fit either and are very well priced.. Well made kit too..
Sounds like you have had a bit of a revalation and feel better for it. I hope it works well for you.

I know what you mean, in fact I have been using a mix of lencarta and speedlights up until now. The reason I went for bowens is that I really needed better modelling lamps and more precise control over the lighting... I agree though, the modifiers are not worth the price they charge for the brand...

you should try buying elinchrom stuff... then you'd be really pee'd off

Yeah I noticed!!!

It would be nice if we could compile some form of brand comparison list (column A: Brand, column B: equivalent 'no-brand/not known brand' but just in good in terms of quality) - this way we can better choose what else is out there at a lower price. Not just for lighting too but some form of global list (eg tripods - Gitzo / Induro etc). Unless we already have such a list on the forum?

I am not sure if there is such a list, but something like that could be useful for prospective buyers.

Without wanting to pee Elemental off, could've been a bad batch but i've tried 2 of their softboxes and the material ripped at the seems on both of them, so i guess i did get what i paid for..

That might make you feel a bit better.

After how long? The ones I have recieved seem very strong... I guess time will tell.

spending money on expensive lighting will not give better results. Its the size of the light source not how powerful they are.
You don't need the best, you just need to know how to use the things.

You are of course correct, but I find that some of the more expensive lighting gear is more flexible than the cheaper alternatives and can be of more use across the board. If I was just shooting in a studio under my own conditions I would agree, but I tend to shoot all over the place in a variety of situations and for that I need my kit to be both flexible and reliable.

As for the softboxes... pfft, as long as they are sturdy and quick to setup I couldnt give a monkeys which brand name was on them... especially after todays little revelation

 

[Kaouthia]

spending money on expensive lighting will not give better results.

No, but it will give you consistent results. Just look at Alien Bees, they can be as much as half a stop out either way on ever single shot you take. In a professional environment you need consistency.

Its the size of the light source not how powerful they are.

Sometimes there is no substitute for more power.

I agree that a lot of Bowens modifiers are extremely overpriced for what they are vs. some of the competition, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy Bowens lights if I was looking for something mains powered for a studio (and not just for the power either).

 

[jamesoliverstone]

I agree that a lot of Bowens modifiers are extremely overpriced for what they are vs. some of the competition, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy Bowens lights if I was looking for something mains powered for a studio (and not just for the power either).

I agree, the Bowens Pro 500's are miles better than anything I have shot with before, although I will miss my Lencarta Safaris for giving me lightweight power on the go (and easy to setup and use).

 

[Kaouthia]

I was looking at those 500 Pros at Focus this year after having had a quick play with some shortly before. Seriously tempting, but I'm trying to hold out til I can justify the expense of Elinchrom Rangers for a more portable solution.

 

[jamesoliverstone]

I have never really used any elinchrom products before, but the ranger's certainly get good reviews

 

[Tyke Tiler]

you should try buying elinchrom stuff... then you'd be really pee'd off

+

I hear you and 1000% agree. I'm not a fan of Elinchrom's tactic, not at all. Nice gear but seriously, sort your accessory prices out please Eli.

... spending money on expensive lighting will not give better results.

I disagree Pete, 'Spending money on expensive lighting can't guarantee better results' is a fairer statement in my experience.

A higher standard of gear with good build quality will give you consistency and reliability. Two important factors when budgets and meeting requirements are concerned,

Its the size of the light source not how powerful they are.

Do you mean the larger the light source the softer it is?
Meaning the larger the diffuser, the larger the light source?

Power has everything to do with using larger diffusers, a 2 meter octabank isn't going to be the most effective choice when you have 100 joules worth of juice, unless your planning on a working distance of a few inches.

Power output also has everything to do with working distance, so should you need to light from a certain distance then power is amongst the primary priorities.

You don't need the best, you just need to know how to use the things.

Very true but I don't think the OP is in the 'All The Gear & No Idea' brigade.

 

[Mark Anthony]

After how long? The ones I have recieved seem very strong... I guess time will tell.

After being set up and taken down around a dozen times (i haven't got space to leave them built up unfortunately).

I'm still using one of them and i've been using one i got from 'Flash in the pan' off here and that's been great i must add.. both price and performance wise.

 

[Pete Bird]

John & Thomas,

I understand your points and of course good gear is essential and not meaning any diss-respect to the OP, I was making a general point.
Being specific on gear in a forum just confuses the issue unless being asked about one specific make or such.
As for consistancy I must dissagree. If you know your equipment no matter how good or bad, it goes a long way to getting the results you want.
Everthing depends on everything ! and the power of the light source is not the be all and end all just 1 thing. What gives the results is the way we shape that light

Anyway, rules are there to let us understand, and to break when we want, for our own results.

I'm sure we all strive to get what we want, photography wise and as with all things now, there is a vast choice of stuff to go for. Lets hope we can be happy with what we choose.

 

[retired]

Thank you op, you have saved me quite a few pounds. Never knew about this company, always used AJ and they are twice the cost. I would still only use Bowen lights but all the other bits, scoops, snoot, reflector arms etc came from here.

 

[Garry Edwards]

John & Thomas,

I understand your points and of course good gear is essential and not meaning any diss-respect to the OP, I was making a general point.
Being specific on gear in a forum just confuses the issue unless being asked about one specific make or such.
As for consistancy I must dissagree. If you know your equipment no matter how good or bad, it goes a long way to getting the results you want.
Everthing depends on everything ! and the power of the light source is not the be all and end all just 1 thing. What gives the results is the way we shape that light

Anyway, rules are there to let us understand, and to break when we want, for our own results.

I'm sure we all strive to get what we want, photography wise and as with all things now, there is a vast choice of stuff to go for. Lets hope we can be happy with what we choose.

Up to a point, I agree - but there is no workaround for inconsistency in colour temperature, and a high failure rate where there is inconsistency in flash energy (power).

With many accessories, it really doesn't matter what name is on it or how much it cost, it will work just as well, and even if it doesn't it will work fairly well.

But that doesn't apply to flash heads, because the cheaper makes tend to be made down to a price rather than up to a quality standard. There are a lot of manufacturers in the far east that have no pedigree in studio flash, they just 'deconstruct' products made by reputable manufacturers, economise on componants, pile 'em high and sell them at incredibly cheap prices. They don't always stay cheap, because they tend to get bought by firms that then still their own label on them and sell them as quality items.

And in America, the most popular name by far works differently, making (most of) their products themselves but although this firm must understand the importance of consistency, their cheaper product range is again made down to a price and is sold primarily to beginners who don't understand the importance of good design and good consistency. I'm not knocking this, it's their marketing decision and it works well for them.

And it doesn't always apply to softboxes either. IMO the best softboxes are made by the people who invented them, Chimera. All other softboxes are variants of the Chimera design, some firms understand what matters and what doesn't, they design them well and make them of good materials - but others don't understand, make them as cheaply as possible and they work extremely badly. This doesn't mean that a cheap softbox is a waste of money (it may be possible to carry out simple improvements that make a world of difference, as explained here - all I had to do was to move the inner diffuser to where it needed to be and to make the front diffuser as thick as it needed to be - ) but it does mean that there is usually a good reason why softboxes from known names are better.

Edit - I messed up the link, but it still works

 

[itsdavedotnet]

Thank you op, you have saved me quite a few pounds. Never knew about this company, always used AJ and they are twice the cost. I would still only use Bowen lights but all the other bits, scoops, snoot, reflector arms etc came from here.

aye, elemental do good stuff, I make a living with elemental kit. Couple of small gripes with it, the boom could use an octagonal spigot on the end rather than a circular one, to prevent the head from slipping when used at certain angles with a heavy mod, and wish they'd do a folding octobox, but other than that, it's good, reliable kit that takes hard knocks and grim conditions well.