Rangefinder help

MindofMel

MindofMel

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Mel
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HI all,

I am this week making the plunge into rangefinders. I have found the various setups for pretty much within budget and am unsure about what route to go down... key points, Im not too fussed about a meter but wouldnt say no. Cheaper setup could afford me a bronica MF cam setup on the side too... hmm

Leica M4-P/M4/M5 + Leitz Summaron 3.5cm f3.5 (w/ adapter) - circa £1050
Leica M4-P/M4/M5 + Voigtlander Skopar 35mm 2.5 - circa £950
Voigtlander Bessa R2M + Voigtlander Skopar 35mm 2.5 - circa £600

Theres part of me that thinks the voigtlander is a better setup but also part of me that thinks if i dont get on the leica ladder now, i never will.. shoot predominantly BW with the occasional colour, and do a lot of walking / travelling.
 
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Voigtlander, sorted. :)

I know that it is tempting to get a Leica, they are exceptionally good, but the Voigtlander range is 90%+ of Leica quality at 50% of the price. I have an R4a and the Voigtlander Nokton 35mm lens and everything about it oozes class, just a joy to use.

Andy
 
Andysnap said:
Voigtlander, sorted. :)

I know that it is tempting to get a Leica, they are exceptionally good, but the Voigtlander range is 90%+ of Leica quality at 50% of the price. I have an R4a and the Voigtlander Nokton 35mm lens and everything about it oozes class, just a joy to use.

Andy
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^^^WHS^^^

Stretch your budget a little and go down the Voigtlander R3A 35mm Skopar route and then spend the rest on the Bronny set up.
 
If you want a rangefinder, there are plenty of options. If you want a Leica, only a Leica will do.

My Leica ladder consisted of two rungs: a IIIf, and an M2. The IIIf is the old style Barnack form factor. Superbly engineered, oozes quality, but a squinty viewfinder and quirky to use. It was enough to convince me to get an M for the more modern control layout and handling, and the vastly better viewfinder. Since 35mm is my preferred focal length, and because I wanted an all-metal camera, I went with an M2 (M3 is similar, but has a viewfinder suited to 50mm). M4s have plastic bits, M5s are weird (bigger, dodgy swinging meter bit).

For a full-fat rangefinder, the M2 is it for me - no upgrade path. I use that with the 35mm Skopar and the M grip. Should be able to find a body for £500 or so (there's one in Ffordes for 449, although button rewind and no self timer), the lens for whatever they currently cost, and the grips can be had for £40-50. Should work out to not that much more than your Bessa/Skopar option at £600 (around £750-800?).

No light meter in Leicas pre-M5, but a Weston in the pocket is fine, as is a Mk1 eyeball calibrated to sunny 16.
 
I have a Leica R7. It's quite heavy compared to everything else I have. So if weight is an issue then Leica might be a problem. It's not zorki heavy but it is about the same as a normal SLR with a heavy macro lens on it. I got mine in a specialist camera auction as I just couldn't find anywhere that had the 50mm lens I wanted so total outlay was under £500 but there was always the risk it didn't work fully.

I also have a little yashica electro 35. That produces excellent results as well. It's just whether you want interchangeable lenses or not. If there is a fixed lens solution that does everything it's worth investigating. It's got an AP metering mode as well so it's more flexible than the Hi-Matic for example. Bang/buck/weight the yashica is excellent. I'd think the voigtlander is also similar in price/performance.
 
I had a Voigtlander Bessa R and 35mm f2.5 MC and I just loved it. I stupidly sold it as it was just a last swing with film but I'd recommend them to anyone looking for RF and tactile fun at less cost, bulk and weight than some Leica's.
 
I had a Leica CL and then a Bessa R3A both with the M-Rokkor 40mm f/2 lens. I much preferred the Bessa as it was much less quirky. I sold it because I found the cost of extra lenses too expensive to bear.
 
Another I had was a Canon Canonet QL. Whilst maybe not as sexy as a Leica or a Bessa they're cheap and rather nice :D
 
The only rangefinder I have at the moment is a Kiev 4. Whilst it's not Leica quality, it's basically a Contax at a fraction of the price with an equally sharp lens. I'm probably going to be listing mine in the classifieds here soon because, for what I shoot, I don't think the rangefinder is right for me but I can't fault the camera itself.
 
What lens is on the Kiev steve?

I have dilly dallied too long and the bessa i had found has been sold! :(((

I think in truth, im trying to find a camera that will spark my 'love' again. I have been a ghost here and absent from shooting in a long time. I'm just rediscovering my urge to shoot and think a new camera will happy to carry that through
 
MindofMel said:
What lens is on the Kiev steve?

I have dilly dallied too long and the bessa i had found has been sold! :(((

I think in truth, im trying to find a camera that will spark my 'love' again. I have been a ghost here and absent from shooting in a long time. I'm just rediscovering my urge to shoot and think a new camera will happy to carry that through
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Hi Mel. It's the Jupiter 8M;





I know how you feel. Sometimes we all just need something (usually a new toy!) to get back into photography again.
 
Hi Mel, I'm not sure about the later Bessa's but earlier this year I was deliberating over which rangefinder to buy. I didn't have Leica money [emoji24] so my choice was the original Bessa R or the Canon 7 (both LTM). I bought the Canon 7 and I'm very happy with it, the viewfinder is big and bright and it's beautifully engineered. Later I ended up getting a Bessa R as part of a package with a lens that I wanted for roughly the price of the lens on its own. Having now compared the two I've decided to sell the Bessa R as it just doesn't feel as nice as the Canon. The viewfinder is as bright, maybe brighter and the rangefinder patch is better defined but I'd rather use the Canon and forego the meter because it just feels nicer. The wind on mechanism of the Canon is especially smooth and the shutter much quieter. I've heard the later Bessa's are better built but haven't any experience of them. My advice would be to go to a store where you can handle each camera and see how they feel.

If you just want to play in the meantime then a Soviet rangefinder is a bit of fun. I turned down a Zorki 4k on this forum as I had no desire to own one. Since then I had one offered to me at such a low price I thought that I could make a quick profit on eBay. When I tested it out I was really surprised at how nice it is to use and fun. So much for turning that profit lol.
 
You could buy about twenty Olympus 35RC's for the top of your budget. If you can live with a fixed 42mm lens then very few people will be able to tell the difference in the images you take.

I see from your flickr stream you're using a Hasselblad and getting good results; I could never quite understand why some people spend thousands on Leicas given the small negative size. Expect, of course, they are free to spend their money as they wish.
 
Kevin, I like the Olympus results. But I'm honesty I had for one for two weeks a few years ago and despite the results it always just felt like a "toy" and not "serious". Pretentious criticisms tho I agree

I'm thinking a soviet rangefinder might be a shout but the one criticism I have found is the variability between copies of lenses and bodies etc. If I could find a member of talk photography to sell me theirs? Lol

Would also save me from another voigtlander ive come across
 
MindofMel said:
Kevin, I like the Olympus results. But I'm honesty I had for one for two weeks a few years ago and despite the results it always just felt like a "toy" and not "serious". Pretentious criticisms tho I agree

I'm thinking a soviet rangefinder might be a shout but the one criticism I have found is the variability between copies of lenses and bodies etc. If I could find a member of talk photography to sell me theirs? Lol

Would also save me from another voigtlander ive come across
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Hi Mel. I've got a roll of XP2 Super in the Kiev at the moment so I'll finish it off tomorrow and get it developed/scanned asap.
 
If you have that sort of money then go mf and get a mamiya 6 or 7. I had an m3 for a while and it was lovely but doesn't compare to the mamiya's
 
MindofMel said:
MF is too large a format for snapshotting and just casual day to day stuff. Have a Haselblad 500 sat here gathering dust. Feel like something like the Kiev I can carry 24/7 and shoot daily
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Felt the weight of that. I be surprised if a Mamyia 6 was heavier.
 
Fair enough, but you'd be surprised how portable they are. My mamiya 6 is no bigger than my old Nikon 750 but, yes, a bit chunkier than a leica. Everyone should own a film leica at some point in their lives anyway :)
 
My Rolleiflex is pretty much the same weight as my Leica M4 + 50mm and it takes up a similar amount of space in my bag. I actually end up using my Rolleiflex more since it's way easier to finish a roll. For daily snapshots I just use my phone or my (digital) Ricoh GR. I think a Mamiya 6 would be perfect actually, especially considering you can collapse it to take up even less space.
 
MindofMel said:
Hi steve, I have managed to grab a voigtlander from Mr Cad. If i dont get along with it, i'll be knocking on your door. So dont rush through your film unneccesarily!
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No problem Mel, thanks for letting me know. I brought the camera into work with me to go for a walk at lunchtime but it's bouncing here so no chance!
 
Kevin Allan said:
You could buy about twenty Olympus 35RC's for the top of your budget. If you can live with a fixed 42mm lens then very few people will be able to tell the difference in the images you take.
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There's more to it than whether others can tell the difference in the images. Or even whether the photographer can tell the difference.


I could never quite understand why some people spend thousands on Leicas given the small negative size. Expect, of course, they are free to spend their money as they wish.
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I wouldn't spend thousands on Leica gear, but I think the early M bodies are well worthwhile at the typical £500 or so prices. The 35RC is smaller and loads a bit easier than the M2, but in every other respect, it is completely outclassed. Leica glass is a different matter, I reckon - the older stuff is optically no better than modern 3rd party, and often still more expensive, and modern Leica lenses used are way too expensive. The Cosina Voigtlander lenses, if chosen carefully, can be superb for a fraction of the cost of Leica. Negative size is indeed a factor - it's debateable whether blowing silly money on tack-sharp glass makes sense if the film isn't up to resolving the detail.
 
Forgive me, but this is a GAS sadness post. :( I loved my Bronica 645 rangefinder results, but sold it on. I loved the feel and the heft (I didn't previously understand heft) of my Leica M3, and used to love triggering the shutter more than actually shooting film with it. (I was the same with a Nikon F5, but that's another story) Choosing a lens for the M3 was different, but I eventually went for a Summicron 50 and a Voigtlander 25mm for wide angle, both fine lenses. I got there via a Kiev 4a, but the truth is that I'm not a rangefinder person, no matter how good the camera is. The original 3 choices would make me go for the middle ground of M4-P with 35mm Skopar, but only if the M4-P was deemed better than an M3. I've also been shooting recently with a couple of compacts with fixed 35mm lenses, and I'm not convinced it's the focal length for me. You'll know what your eye prefers, but the great thing with Leica is that you can always sell them on, so go get one and enjoy the experience. (y)
 
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Yes, Leicas are free! Well, free-ish, once sold...
 
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