Racial harassment ??

[JohnC6]

Judge James Taylor,a senior circuit judge, said, in a case involving a university worker with a strong Brazilian accent, that people could be guilty of racial harassment even if they did not realise their comments were offensive. Judge Taylor was overeseeing an employment appeal tribunal claim against Hertfordshire Univeristy by Elaine Carozzi,a marketing manager . She said she spoke english well but her colleagues struggled to understand her. She alleged that her accent was used as a measuring stick to deduct her credibility and professional capability. She resigned a year after becoming an engagement ,marketing and partnership manager at the university's school of creative arts. Her original claims were dismissed by a tribunal in Watford but she was allowed to appeal against part of the ruling on the grounds that there were mistakes in the decision, ie to dismiss the case. And what were these mistakes ?

Judge Taylor found that the tribunal did not properly consider that an accent was linked to a person's race. He said.."Comments about a person's accent could be related to the protected characteristic of race". A different tribunal will now hear Carozzi's claim.

 

[woof woof]

I see an immigrant about once a week and I struggle to understand them. I ask for things to be repeated or said in different ways but I still really struggle, really struggle, and I'm not the only one. I know this because I've asked others. I think more emphasis and responsibility needs to be placed upon the individual to make sure that they can be understood. If they can't be understood then this creates real difficulties in the workplace. What's the answer? The HR answer is probably to send everyone who can't understand them on a course or to hire a translator for those who can't make themselves understood in the native language of the country they are in.

When Mrs WW arrived in the UK she enrolled in free English courses. I repeat that. Free English courses. She even took a free maths class just for the extra chance to talk to people in English. Perish the thought that others should take some responsibility and make the effort to learn how to speak, read and write English to the point that they can understand and make themselves understood.

 

[andya700]

I see an immigrant about once a week and I struggle to understand them. I ask for things to be repeated or said in different ways but I still really struggle, really struggle, and I'm not the only one. I know this because I've asked others. I think more emphasis and responsibility needs to be placed upon the individual to make sure that they can be understood. If they can't be understood then this creates real difficulties in the workplace. What's the answer? The HR answer is probably to send everyone who can't understand them on a course or to hire a translator for those who can't make themselves understood in the native language of the country they are in.

When Mrs WW arrived in the UK she enrolled in free English courses. I repeat that. Free English courses. She even took a free maths class just for the extra chance to talk to people in English. Perish the thought that others should take some responsibility and make the effort to learn how to speak, read and write English to the point that they can understand and make themselves understood.

My wife did exactly the same. Ten years after that, she passed her Masters degree at Canterbury, with the awards ceremony at Canterbury Cathedral. I have never been so proud of her. There are many times that I cannot understand people on helplines and the like, which is not acceptable IMHO.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I do wonder how the woman got the job in the first place, given the claim that "her colleagues struggled to understand her".

 

[andya700]

I do wonder how the woman got the job in the first place, given the claim that "her colleagues struggled to understand her".

Don't start me on that Andrew. Many years ago, we had a person of a certain demographic leave our firm. Six months later, it was announced that she would be returning as my team leader. There was a catch though, I had to teach her how to do bank reconciliations and cashflow forecasts, as well as showing her how a cashbook works

 

[swanseamale47]

Many years ago I had a part time job as a taxi driver to top up my photography earnings. One run I had was a hospital. I'd take doctors from one hospital to another.
One of the doctors could hardly speak a word of English, he'd have the name of the hospital written on a bit of paper by a nurse I was told he was the top thoracic surgeon. How he managed to operate if he couldnt talk to the rest of the team baffled me.
I tried taking to him in the car, but he really only managed a few words of English.

 

[Nod]

The "help" line people at the DVLA's medical desk have the most impenetrable Welsh accents I've ever come across.

 

[woof woof]

My wife did exactly the same. Ten years after that, she passed her Masters degree at Canterbury, with the awards ceremony at Canterbury Cathedral. I have never been so proud of her. There are many times that I cannot understand people on helplines and the like, which is not acceptable IMHO.

Mrs WW did various English courses the first of which was ESOL (English for speakers of other languages) and of course that free maths one and she also did a couple of translation courses and is now a qualified translator. She's had a few paying translation jobs but to be honest the money the agencies pay isn't worth the prep and the paperwork. Her last work was volunteering at the local college to help the foreign students.

Some level of English is of course required during the visa process and with that and the availability of free courses and help from numerous agencies it becomes difficult to understand why some people don't have a good enough level of English and how they manage to stay in the country given the visa requirements. Well, not really. No effort to deport them I suppose.

Whilst I'm on the subject of expensive visas. The process for Mrs WW was long and expensive but contrast that with this... We know of someone who entered the country through the same legal route as Mrs WW and was going through the same visa process with their British partner. The relationship failed so the immigrant was given ILR (Indefinite Leave to Remain, that one visa cost me about £3k, AFAIR) even though that wasn't their next visa and they were immediately given a council flat. Very nice. And one last one. A couple of weeks ago I was in a council house in town, and it was quite nice, I was there the day the furniture was delivered, all decent quality plus a phone and internet access were provided. All was being quickly prepared for a new immigrant and their children who'd been fast tracked from a country which is not at war, there's no famine or natural disaster but they've just got divorced and the UK has a scheme. Very nice. You can see how the locals with slim to no chance of a council house and struggling to get their kids into the local school could feel aggrieved.

 

[woof woof]

I do wonder how the woman got the job in the first place, given the claim that "her colleagues struggled to understand her".

The right tick in the right box? There is no meritocracy in some places these days.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

There is no meritocracy in some places these days.

I've long suspected that many people use that word sarcastically, in any case.

 

[Box Brownie]

Many years ago I had a part time job as a taxi driver to top up my photography earnings. One run I had was a hospital. I'd take doctors from one hospital to another.
One of the doctors could hardly speak a word of English, he'd have the name of the hospital written on a bit of paper by a nurse I was told he was the top thoracic surgeon. How he managed to operate if he couldnt talk to the rest of the team baffled me.
I tried taking to him in the car, but he really only managed a few words of English.

Just a thought....... surgery can be highly specialised, therefore a limited vocabulary to communicate between operating theatre team members.

Analogy, how many opera singers that sing in English, German, Italian etc understood exactly what they are singing and are they fluent otherwise in the second(?) languages?

 

[TheFiend]

Mrs WW did various English courses the first of which was ESOL (English for speakers of other languages) and of course that free maths one and she also did a couple of translation courses and is now a qualified translator. She's had a few paying translation jobs but to be honest the money the agencies pay isn't worth the prep and the paperwork. Her last work was volunteering at the local college to help the foreign students.

Some level of English is of course required during the visa process and with that and the availability of free courses and help from numerous agencies it becomes difficult to understand why some people don't have a good enough level of English and how they manage to stay in the country given the visa requirements. Well, not really. No effort to deport them I suppose.

Whilst I'm on the subject of expensive visas. The process for Mrs WW was long and expensive but contrast that with this... We know of someone who entered the country through the same legal route as Mrs WW and was going through the same visa process with their British partner. The relationship failed so the immigrant was given ILR (Indefinite Leave to Remain, that one visa cost me about £3k, AFAIR) even though that wasn't their next visa and they were immediately given a council flat. Very nice. And one last one. A couple of weeks ago I was in a council house in town, and it was quite nice, I was there the day the furniture was delivered, all decent quality plus a phone and internet access were provided. All was being quickly prepared for a new immigrant and their children who'd been fast tracked from a country which is not at war, there's no famine or natural disaster but they've just got divorced and the UK has a scheme. Very nice. You can see how the locals with slim to no chance of a council house and struggling to get their kids into the local school could feel aggrieved.

Mrs Fiend came to the UK from Thailand 15 years ago... I did the spouse visa application myself after doing research on what evidence was required and this was before they required proof of being able to speak, read and write English. The visa was granted on the first attempt. After Mrs Fiend arrived in the UK I then started researching what was required to gain ILR and found out that my local college ran an ESOL course, so enrolled her on it and which she passed at the required standard.... After 2 years I submitted her ILR application which was also granted at first attempt... I saved quite a bit of money by gathering all the required evidence and filling in the paperwork myself...

Mrs Fiends English isn't perfect but it doesn't cause problems for her...

Currently going through the process of converting her ILR to a No Time Limit eVisa...

 

[woof woof]

Mrs Fiend came to the UK from Thailand 15 years ago... I did the spouse visa application myself after doing research on what evidence was required and this was before they required proof of being able to speak, read and write English. The visa was granted on the first attempt. After Mrs Fiend arrived in the UK I then started researching what was required to gain ILR and found out that my local college ran an ESOL course, so enrolled her on it and which she passed at the required standard.... After 2 years I submitted her ILR application which was also granted at first attempt... I saved quite a bit of money by gathering all the required evidence and filling in the paperwork myself...

Mrs Fiends English isn't perfect but it doesn't cause problems for her...

Currently going through the process of converting her ILR to a No Time Limit eVisa...

Yes, we did it all ourselves. I haven't totted up the total cost but I guess it's well over £10k. I would have been cheaper if we'd "split up" as she might just have bypassed most of the process and got her ILR cost free or even better rock up on Redcar beach and bypass the whole process. Only Kidding. Of course.

I don't know what the No Time Limit evisa is, Mrs WW went straight from ILR to citizenship.

I can see how immigration causes concern amongst those most affected, those with the least power and the fewest opportunities in one of the most deprived areas of the UK and of course if they voice their concerns the finger is pointed and they're "Far right bigots" and fast tracked to a prison cell. Thanks for that Kier. Way to win friends and influence people.

 

[footman]

Many years ago I had a part time job as a taxi driver to top up my photography earnings. One run I had was a hospital. I'd take doctors from one hospital to another.
One of the doctors could hardly speak a word of English, he'd have the name of the hospital written on a bit of paper by a nurse I was told he was the top thoracic surgeon. How he managed to operate if he couldnt talk to the rest of the team baffled me.
I tried taking to him in the car, but he really only managed a few words of English.

Since 2014 The General Medical Council required foreign candidates to pass a language proficiency test based on the IELTS before gaining a licence to practice and not before time. Several times in years gone by I encountered difficult and critical situations in communicating with foreign colleagues.

 

[Mr Bump]

my nephew told me last week some guy at his company got sacked for calling a black co-worker chalkie in comedy jest
apparently they had regular banter in this respect both way, but the black guy was having a bad day so took it to HR
quite rightly he was dismissed for gross misconduct.

 

[TheFiend]

Yes, we did it all ourselves. I haven't totted up the total cost but I guess it's well over £10k. I would have been cheaper if we'd "split up" as she might just have bypassed most of the process and got her ILR cost free or even better rock up on Redcar beach and bypass the whole process. Only Kidding. Of course.

I don't know what the No Time Limit evisa is, Mrs WW went straight from ILR to citizenship.

I can see how immigration causes concern amongst those most affected, those with the least power and the fewest opportunities in one of the most deprived areas of the UK and of course if they voice their concerns the finger is pointed and they're "Far right bigots" and fast tracked to a prison cell. Thanks for that Kier. Way to win friends and influence people.

Mrs Fiend is proud of being Thai and sees no advantage in becoming a British citizen..... The "No Time Limit eVisa" I guess is what the ILR is becoming.... Up until now she just shows her old passport with the ILR vignette inside when we go through border control. Her ILR came before Biometric Residence cards were introduced.... The eVisa needs her biometric info which we're having done on Tuesday at Newcastle....

 

[Garry Edwards]

Our family problem - better half's mother is suffering from Parkinsons, with associated dementia. She's living at home with 24-hour live in care. The first care company was supplying a constant and ever-changing stream of carers from South Africa, which no doubt were being exploited. We felt for them, but one of the problems was that they spoke a form of English that is hard to understand, not sure whether the problem was accent or dialect, but the old lady really struggled to communicate with them.
Long story short, they were unsatisfactory in other ways too and we've now replaced them with another agency. The first carer turned up on Tuesday, having travelled from Poland to get here. She has some English but she too is hard to understand, and she cannot read English at all.

If this sounds racist, it isn't. We don't care about skin colour, religion or any other racist stuff, all we care about is that the people who are being paid to look after the old lady can communicate properly with her, they are all that she has to meet her needs and provide company. When I was younger I travelled quite a lot on business, and whenever I knew that I was going to work in another country I learned the language before I went to it, so that I could actually do the work that I was paid to do. The only exception to this was my frequent business trips to China, I tried to learn Mandarin but just couldn't, but I was always accompanied by an interpreter, it was my problem and therefore my cost. I didn't expect Chinese people to speak English or to provide an interpreter.

 

[woof woof]

Mrs Fiend is proud of being Thai and sees no advantage in becoming a British citizen..... The "No Time Limit eVisa" I guess is what the ILR is becoming.... Up until now she just shows her old passport with the ILR vignette inside when we go through border control. Her ILR came before Biometric Residence cards were introduced.... The eVisa needs her biometric info which we're having done on Tuesday at Newcastle....

Ah. Maybe that's why I haven't heard of it. Mrs WW had a biometric card.

I think Mrs must be proud of being Thai but there are a lot of things about Thailand that annoy her, the politics, poverty, employment rights and mistreatment, the stray dogs, the state of much of the country, the tourist drink and drugs scene. That sort of thing. She thinks a British passport will bring her less chance of hassle when travelling plus she's settled in well and having seen what's happened with the new generation party in Thailand she's desperate to vote and try and stop similar happening in the UK. She's definitely a hard line yellow shirt.

Hope all goes well on Tuesday. We've been to Newcastle at least twice (I forget) and everything has always gone smoothly. After that we go to the gallery opposite and have a look around and something to eat and drink.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Mrs Fiend is proud of being Thai ...

That's one of the things I've never understood: being proud about a place where you were born or live.

Mind you, I just have a completely blank space where pride's concerned.

 

[Mr Bump]

Our family problem - better half's mother is suffering from Parkinsons, with associated dementia. She's living at home with 24-hour live in care. The first care company was supplying a constant and ever-changing stream of carers from South Africa, which no doubt were being exploited. We felt for them, but one of the problems was that they spoke a form of English that is hard to understand, not sure whether the problem was accent or dialect, but the old lady really struggled to communicate with them.
Long story short, they were unsatisfactory in other ways too and we've now replaced them with another agency. The first carer turned up on Tuesday, having travelled from Poland to get here. She has some English but she too is hard to understand, and she cannot read English at all.

If this sounds racist, it isn't. We don't care about skin colour, religion or any other racist stuff, all we care about is that the people who are being paid to look after the old lady can communicate properly with her, they are all that she has to meet her needs and provide company. When I was younger I travelled quite a lot on business, and whenever I knew that I was going to work in another country I learned the language before I went to it, so that I could actually do the work that I was paid to do. The only exception to this was my frequent business trips to China, I tried to learn Mandarin but just couldn't, but I was always accompanied by an interpreter, it was my problem and therefore my cost. I didn't expect Chinese people to speak English or to provide an interpreter.

This is just the thing though with the care system it is fundamentally broken , it is minimum wage also it is one of the one things left from BREXIT that EU and TCN nationals can come to the UK on a visa to work here so that literally is what you are getting , to get a UK person in your relatives house to supply the care will cost you a lot more but there are agencies out there.

 

[Garry Edwards]

This is just the thing though with the care system it is fundamentally broken , it is minimum wage also it is one of the one things left from BREXIT that EU and TCN nationals can come to the UK on a visa to work here so that literally is what you are getting , to get a UK person in your relatives house to supply the care will cost you a lot more but there are agencies out there.

We've engaged agencies. So far we haven't had a penny towards the costs, Social services are constantly interfering but have provided no actual help, their sole concern seems to be making sure that she spends all of her savings on her care and that they can grab her house. The costs from July until last week have amounted to more than £36K. All of the agencies seem to employ only foreign staff, at a cost of over £26 per hour.

The real problem in this case is that she worked hard all her life, bought and paid for her house and saved money. If she had squandered her money the council would have paid for her care.

 

[woof woof]

That's one of the things I've never understood: being proud about a place where you were born or live.

Mind you, I just have a completely blank space where pride's concerned.

That's the current thinking of many and IMO explains much of our politics and why this country and others are in such a state. There is IMO a lot to be said for a sense of community and belonging and traditions and building something and having pride in your environment and the achievements of your society, whilst respecting others and our differences of course. Unlike the globalist I don't want everywhere to be the same. The globalist transactional view is soulless and depressing to me. I just can't imagine having that mindset.

 

[Mr Bump]

We've engaged agencies. So far we haven't had a penny towards the costs, Social services are constantly interfering but have provided no actual help, their sole concern seems to be making sure that she spends all of her savings on her care and that they can grab her house. The costs from July until last week have amounted to more than £36K. All of the agencies seem to employ only foreign staff, at a cost of over £26 per hour.

The real problem in this case is that she worked hard all her life, bought and paid for her house and saved money. If she had squandered her money the council would have paid for her care.

yep that is social care for the elderly no one gives a damn we would rather spend it all on SEN(D) in our council area
when you think min wage is £11.44+ employer NI and then mandatory pension contributions it is costing the agency close to £20/hour to supply that person alone add on overheads and its cut throat.

 

[gman]

Our family problem - better half's mother is suffering from Parkinsons, with associated dementia. She's living at home with 24-hour live in care. The first care company was supplying a constant and ever-changing stream of carers from South Africa, which no doubt were being exploited. We felt for them, but one of the problems was that they spoke a form of English that is hard to understand, not sure whether the problem was accent or dialect, but the old lady really struggled to communicate with them.
Long story short, they were unsatisfactory in other ways too and we've now replaced them with another agency. The first carer turned up on Tuesday, having travelled from Poland to get here. She has some English but she too is hard to understand, and she cannot read English at all.

If this sounds racist, it isn't. We don't care about skin colour, religion or any other racist stuff, all we care about is that the people who are being paid to look after the old lady can communicate properly with her, they are all that she has to meet her needs and provide company. When I was younger I travelled quite a lot on business, and whenever I knew that I was going to work in another country I learned the language before I went to it, so that I could actually do the work that I was paid to do. The only exception to this was my frequent business trips to China, I tried to learn Mandarin but just couldn't, but I was always accompanied by an interpreter, it was my problem and therefore my cost. I didn't expect Chinese people to speak English or to provide an interpreter.

Must have been about 20 odd years ago when my wife and I were on the train having a conversation and everyone around us was staring in bewilderment trying to understand what language we were speaking. It was on the Victoria Line.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

That's the current thinking of many and IMO explains much of our politics and why this country and others are in such a state.

I don't think that Britain is any worse off than it's ever been.

There is IMO a lot to be said for a sense of community and belonging

I agree with that. What has happened, in my experience, is that many communities now span hundreds or even thousands of miles, so that people who know their neighbours also have strong ties with people physically far away.

and traditions and building something and having pride in your environment and the achievements of your society,

Tradition and pride are the problem, so far as I'm concerned. The two words are all about coercion, in the ways that they are so often (mis)used.

Unlike the globalist I don't want everywhere to be the same.

I don't want everyone to be the same, other than wanting them to accept that they must fall in with those around them. As for saying that globalism is soulless, I think that the way you're using it here is the opposite of how I understand globalism.

 

[woof woof]

I don't think that Britain is any worse off than it's ever been.

I agree with that. What has happened, in my experience, is that many communities now span hundreds or even thousands of miles, so that people who know their neighbours also have strong ties with people physically far away.

Tradition and pride are the problem, so far as I'm concerned. The two words are all about coercion, in the ways that they are so often (mis)used.

I don't want everyone to be the same, other than wanting them to accept that they must fall in with those around them. As for saying that globalism is soulless, I think that the way you're using it here is the opposite of how I understand globalism.

Your views on tradition and pride and globalism as it seems to being implemented around us are a million miles from mine.

Britain and being worse off or not. Economically we seem to be stagnating or in decline. I don't think that's deniable. You don't even have to go out of your way to talk to people you just need to look at the stats. Socially I think yes we are worse off in many ways and again I don't think that's deniable and you don't need to talk to anyone you just need to google the various issues and stats. There seem to be few metrics by which "we" are better off. If none of this touches you you're very lucky as am I but I do see what's happening around me and I do care.

As I've said many many times, I think we need a revolution, Many countries seem to need one. I don't mean violence and blood on the streets I mean a sweeping away of the current ruling class and their policies which seem to be failing and increasingly undeniably so.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

...are a million miles from mine.

Certainly different.

I don't think that's deniable.

Actually, I think it is.

I mean a sweeping away of the current ruling class and their policies which seem to be failing and increasingly undeniably so.

All sudden political changes are disruptive and cause harm to the weakest members of a society, even when the stated aim is to benefit such. Gradual change is the sine qua non of a healthy society or, if you prefer, good changes come from making haste slowly.

 

[woof woof]

Certainly different.

Actually, I think it is.

All sudden political changes are disruptive and cause harm to the weakest members of a society, even when the stated aim is to benefit such. Gradual change is the sine qua non of a healthy society or, if you prefer, good changes come from making haste slowly.

Well, we've certainly seen that since the election of Starmer and his crew of ideologues and that supports my point. We need a complete change of ruling class but we don't have to do that and then pay the weakest in society less, charge them more for utilities than anywhere else in the developed world, shut their places of work or imprison them for Facebook posts.

 

[TheFiend]

Ah. Maybe that's why I haven't heard of it. Mrs WW had a biometric card.

I think Mrs must be proud of being Thai but there are a lot of things about Thailand that annoy her, the politics, poverty, employment rights and mistreatment, the stray dogs, the state of much of the country, the tourist drink and drugs scene. That sort of thing. She thinks a British passport will bring her less chance of hassle when travelling plus she's settled in well and having seen what's happened with the new generation party in Thailand she's desperate to vote and try and stop similar happening in the UK. She's definitely a hard line yellow shirt.

Hope all goes well on Tuesday. We've been to Newcastle at least twice (I forget) and everything has always gone smoothly. After that we go to the gallery opposite and have a look around and something to eat and drink.

So it was basically a 6 hour round trip for fingerprints and a photo.... She was in and out in about 20 minutes. One good thing is that there was zero charge for converting the ILR to eVisa (No time Limit) as I'd already uploaded scans of her Passport and ILR vignettte, there is a £60 charge if you want them to scan them. Now it's just a case of waiting for it to be issued....

Our next trip to Thailand is planned to be the week after the Thai New Year celebrations in April, so there's no big rush for it.

 

[TheFiend]

So it was basically a 6 hour round trip for fingerprints and a photo.... She was in and out in about 20 minutes. One good thing is that there was zero charge for converting the ILR to eVisa (No time Limit) as I'd already uploaded scans of her Passport and ILR vignettte, there is a £60 charge if you want them to scan them. Now it's just a case of waiting for it to be issued....

Our next trip to Thailand is planned to be the week after the Thai New Year celebrations in April, so there's no big rush for it.

Had an email from "UK Visas and Immigration Home Office" saying they had received Mrs Fiends application and supporting information and telling us that their aim is to provide a decision on the application by the 12th June 2025!!! Unbelievable that it says it could take 6 months!!!

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Unbelievable that it says it could take 6 months!!!

It seems quite reasonable to me.

Given the huge pressures on the Home Office generally, and the UK Visas and Immigration (UKVI) department in particular, I would have thought that six months would be good going. Imperial College London have a partial overview of the current system and expected changes here...

UKVI visa, ATAS processing and RTW Check updates

www.imperial.ac.uk

 

[TheFiend]

It seems quite reasonable to me.

Given the huge pressures on the Home Office generally, and the UK Visas and Immigration (UKVI) department in particular, I would have thought that six months would be good going. Imperial College London have a partial overview of the current system and expected changes here...

UKVI visa, ATAS processing and RTW Check updates

www.imperial.ac.uk

Mrs Fiends details haven't changed since her ILR application, she will already be on the UKVI system, so it should just need her biometrics added and her eVisa issued since it's not a new ILR application. Filling in the eVisa (No Time Limit) application was actually quite easy and the only supporting documents I needed to upload was a scan of her ILR vignette and her current passport. The eVisa will get linked to her passport and when she gets a new passport we just need to amend her passport details on her UKVI account

I've came across this on a UKVI news page, so our travel plans won't be affected if it doesn't get issued in time.

Anyone with indefinite leave to remain who uses an ink stamp or vignette in a passport to prove their rights can continue to use their documents as they do today, including for travel. These people are encouraged to make a No Time Limit application to access an eVisa to reap the benefits.

It is free and straightforward to switch to an eVisa, which offers greater convenience. An eVisa cannot be lost, stolen or tampered with, and allows visa holders to instantly and securely prove their immigration rights. Switching won’t change, impact or remove someone’s current rights or immigration status.

The only reason we've applied for the eVisa is to save her from having to carry her old passport with the ILR vignette inside when we travel.

 

[pmac]

Had an email from "UK Visas and Immigration Home Office" saying they had received Mrs Fiends application and supporting information and telling us that their aim is to provide a decision on the application by the 12th June 2025!!! Unbelievable that it says it could take 6 months!!!

My wife has had her indefinite right to remain in her pass passport and never got the id card. The never contacted her or anything we just found out from another Chinese friend that it was changing to bio.
She called them and they were useless and had no clue but said to apply early as once it hit the due date the wait would be longer.
She did hers in July this year, with the expectation it could take 3 months so would be back before our October holiday. Actually only took 3 weeks so you might be lucky.

 

[pmac]

With regards to people learning the language, we have a lot of friend from the Chinese community with her bing Chinese and all of them young to old can speak English to a high enough standard that you can have a conversation easily. Some like my wife are better than 75% of us British especially when it comes to grammar.
The way she was taught isn’t the same way we got taught at school here.

I think the issue a lot of the time is the people coming here now don’t want to become part of the UK society, they just want to live in the UK.
There are huge communities from various countries that now live in the uk that have there own communities and even parts of cities that are just for them so they don’t bother to try or want and integrate with the local uk population.

 

[Garry Edwards]

I have a Chinese friend who has indefinite right to remain. She lives here full-time but is currently in China to have her baby born there, to get Chinese citizenship.

Does she need to get this new bio thing?

 

[pmac]

I have a Chinese friend who has indefinite right to remain. She lives here full-time but is currently in China to have her baby born there, to get Chinese citizenship.

Does she need to get this new bio thing?

All the old passport and id cards become redundant at the end of year I believe it is..not 100% on that though as my wife dealt with it all.
It’s really not very well advertised or been announced she received no info from them as I said and they didn’t even seem to have any clue when she called.
we luckily only found out through word of mouth and as we were travelling to Greece this year and she needed a visa for that.

With the id cards some have already done the biometric part so should be ok I think. She hadn’t even done that part though and was still using her old passport

 

[ancient_mariner]

I'm going to have to jump through this hoop shortly too.

 

[TheFiend]

My wife has had her indefinite right to remain in her pass passport and never got the id card. The never contacted her or anything we just found out from another Chinese friend that it was changing to bio.
She called them and they were useless and had no clue but said to apply early as once it hit the due date the wait would be longer.
She did hers in July this year, with the expectation it could take 3 months so would be back before our October holiday. Actually only took 3 weeks so you might be lucky.

I only found out about it after something popped up on my Facebook feed....

All the old passport and id cards become redundant at the end of year I believe it is..not 100% on that though as my wife dealt with it all.
It’s really not very well advertised or been announced she received no info from them as I said and they didn’t even seem to have any clue when she called.
we luckily only found out through word of mouth and as we were travelling to Greece this year and she needed a visa for that.

With the id cards some have already done the biometric part so should be ok I think. She hadn’t even done that part though and was still using her old passport

The Biometric Residence Cards are becoming redundant at the end of this year, but from what I have read the paper vignette in a passport is still going to be accepted for re-entering the country indefinitely......

 

[JohnC6]

Some years ago I had to contact customer care at our insurance company which had outsourced the call centre to India.They had a policy that if you wanted to you could ask to be transfered speak to someone in the UK. I was put through to the call centre in India. It got to a point where I apologised to the lady telling her I couldn't understand her and asked her to put me through to someone in the UK as that was company policy. She refused. That ended the conversation but I did wish her a 'nice day'. I called a day or so later and did get through to a call centre here,unfortunately, it was in Glasgow . You can guess the rest. The company must have had a lot of complaints because they closed their Indian call centre. Some companies made a selling point of having their call centres in the UK so it was a real issue for many.

On a more serious note, I had a range of tests at the hospital about a year ago and got the 'all clear' but I struggled to understand one of the consultants/registrar who was from the sub-continent somewhere. My wife was with me and a couple of times I had to ask her what he said. I've just had to ask to be transfered to a different physio because I was unable to understand the one I was allocated to. There's a limit to how many times you say "Sorry, I didn't get that "

I wonder what the outcome of that tribunal hearing was or will be...the one I originally posted about ?

 

[TheFiend]

It's 3 months since Mrs Fiends eVisa application and we've finally had notification that her application was successful..... We're off to Thailand again in 4 weeks time so we'll get to see how it operates on our return, but I carry the old passport with her ILR vignette inside just in case.....