Quickest way to balance ambient + subject on Nikons?

L

loplyg

Suspended / Banned
Messages
379
Name
Rich
Edit My Images
Yes
Hi folks,

First off, can I please make it clear that I completely understand how to balance ambient and flash, I'm not looking for a basic explanation!

Traditionally, I always shot with manual ISO and would shoot in Manual mode when using a flash. I'd dial the shutter speed up to the indicated setting, snap a shot with the flash turned off, dial the shutter speed up or down if I didn't like the ambient, then I'd turn the flash on and pop another shot. I'd then dial the flash up or down using the buttons on the flash, till I liked the subject:ambient ratio. Easy enough.

What frustrates me now though, is that I started using my D700 with Auto-ISO on. I love it - saves me having to faff on ramping the ISO up all the time, and I trust the high ISO performance enough that if it wants to shoot at 4000 then so be it.

However! This doesn't work well when you have a flash on.

Basically, as far as I can see, the only way to shoot with a flash and balance subject:ambient is to turn off auto ISO and revert to M mode.

One would THINK that the exposure compensation changes the ambient (ie shutter speed up/down), and the flash compensation would change the subject. But no? It seems like exposure compensation changes both? And flash compensation adds to exposure compensation?

Par example... If you dial in exposure compensation -1, and flash compensation +1, you end up with the same as if you hadn't touched either of them... Pointless. Why does exposure compensation affect the flash?

I think if I want to do +1 on the flash and -0.5 on the ambient, I can do exposure -0.5 and flash +1.5, but I'm not sure, because the results seem unpredictable, and I end up just going to M and turning off Auto-ISO.

And if you try to shoot in M mode with Auto-ISO on, then any changes you make to shutter speed to lighten/darken the ambient are immediately counteracted by AutoISO which ramps the ISO up or down to undo your changes!

This isn't the end of the world but it does bug me that I have to spend 4 seconds turning off Auto-ISO and switching to M mode, then 4 seconds turning it back on and going back to A mode, every time I want to flash someone.

Anybody know of a better way?

Shoot with a D700 and SB600, btw.

Cheers,
Rich
 
The only way round it is to limit the amount of lattitude the Auto ISO feature has, but no matter what, if it's switched on it will always set itself to what the camera sees as the "correct" exposure.
 
loplyg said:
What frustrates me now though, is that I started using my D700 with Auto-ISO on. I love it - saves me having to faff on ramping the ISO up all the time, and I trust the high ISO performance enough that if it wants to shoot at 4000 then so be it.

However! This doesn't work well when you have a flash on.

Basically, as far as I can see, the only way to shoot with a flash and balance subject:ambient is to turn off auto ISO and revert to M mode.
Click to expand...

When you are balancing something, you need to know 2 things - the value of the 2 things you are balancing. And thats why you are struggling. Your camera is very good at getting the exposure of a scene "just about right"

However it doesnt know:
1. how you want it visually balanced
2. How much flash is being thrown into the scene, untill it arives at the sensor

Manual is the way to go. Treat the sun (ambient lighting) as one source, and meter for it. Treat the flash as another, and meter for that. All you need to do now is get the balance between the two right. Your limiting factor is your flash sync speed, and that varys from camera to camera
 
It's frustrating that you can't just attach a flash, and dial flash up or down and ambient up or down (by using the relevant compensation buttons, that is).

If you do it in Manual it works fine ofcourse, but you don't get the benefit of convenience, and also if the light level changes you have to keep twiddling with your knobs, whereas if you were just at -1 stop for ambient, it would always be -1...

Bleh. Maybe on the D4/D800 they'll sort it out.
 
Also! Whilst I'm on a rant... Why do no Nikon cameras know how to set the exposure for a flash bounced off a ceiling? It universally underexposes, and you have to dial +1 or +2 on the flash to get it right. I don't understand that. Why's it not setting that itself?

Again, not really a problem, it's just another thing I have to do myself, which should be within the cameras capability to do for me...
 
loplyg said:
Also! Whilst I'm

on a rant... Why do no Nikon cameras know how to set the exposure for a flash bounced off a ceiling? It universally underexposes, and you have to dial +1 or +2 on the flash to get it right. I don't understand that. Why's it not setting that itself?

Again, not really a problem, it's just another thing I have to do myself, which should be within the cameras capability to do for me...
Click to expand...

lol

What do you want - a button for "bounced off the ceiling" "bounced off a red wall" "blasted off the face"

However, if you read the manual you will find this out:
Set your camera in P or A mode. you can then reduce the exposure compensation. This will make the backgroud darker.... then add in the same amount of flash compensation - this will basically mean your subject will be correctly exposed

The other way of approaching this is to pop the camera on manual and expose the background "exactly how you want it to look" then set the flash on manual, and add in exactly the amount of flash you want

As eluded to earlier, the limitation is the shutter sync speed, and power and position of the flash
 
loplyg said:
It's frustrating that you can't just attach a flash, and dial flash up or down and ambient up or down (by using the relevant compensation buttons, that is).

If you do it in Manual it works fine ofcourse, but you don't get the benefit of convenience, and also if the light level changes you have to keep twiddling with your knobs, whereas if you were just at -1 stop for ambient, it would always be -1...

Bleh. Maybe on the D4/D800 they'll sort it out.
Click to expand...

Not familiar with Nikon, but that's exactly how it works with Canon. Set Av, and use +/- compensation on the camera for ambient, and +/- on the gun for flash. Works a treat and it's really easy.

loplyg said:
Also! Whilst I'm on a rant... Why do no Nikon cameras know how to set the exposure for a flash bounced off a ceiling? It universally underexposes, and you have to dial +1 or +2 on the flash to get it right. I don't understand that. Why's it not setting that itself?

Again, not really a problem, it's just another thing I have to do myself, which should be within the cameras capability to do for me...
Click to expand...

No reason why that shouldn't work. The camera shouldn't make any adjustment for whether the light is bounced or not - light is light - even though it probably knows that the flash head has been tilted. Again, with Canon it works fine.

Only time E-TTL gets foxed is when the subject is off-centre and it tries to expose for the backgound in error. That's when you use the Flash Exposure Lock button - point camera at the subject, FEL fires the pre-flash and locks the flash output at the correct level, recompose and shoot.

Is there no way you can make a Nikon behave in the same way as Canon? :thinking: Everybody raves about how good Nikon's auto flash system is.
 
Never had a problem with the D90......
- Drink industrial quantities of wine
- Bung the flash on, set program
- take a few pics then hand camers to someone who hasnt got a clue and....
DSC_4194.jpg


Seriously I just use program and it seems to work a treat. I dont use auto ISO, I set this on 200 manually........
 
your using auto iso, then making manual settings that the auto iso is cancelling out. :bang: also your sb600 has a bl (backlight) mode :thumbs:
 
loplyg said:
Also! Whilst I'm on a rant... Why do no Nikon cameras know how to set the exposure for a flash bounced off a ceiling? It universally underexposes, and you have to dial +1 or +2 on the flash to get it right. I don't understand that. Why's it not setting that itself?
Click to expand...

I've found this with my 450D, it is corrected by adding the +1 exp comp (on camera) so it wont be a lack of flash power. (and i shoot manual so the ambient exp remains the same)
A little annoying for the first shoot or two but now i just know it needs the +1 and i can live with it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top