Question Time

[Quaker]

Should the BBC allow Griffin on the show?

My view...

As someone who dedicated 24 years of his life defending freedom and democracy I say yes he should. Do I agree with what he says? no, I can't abide what they stand for but we live in a democratic and free country and all political parties should be able to air their views.

To ban them from the airwaves is a government decision which should be based on legal argument.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Should the BBC allow Griffin on the show?

My view...

As someone who dedicated 24 years of his life defending freedom and democracy I say yes he should. Do I agree with what he says? no, I can't abide what they stand for but we live in a democratic and free country and all political parties should be able to air their views.

To ban them from the airwaves is a government decision which should be based on legal argument.

Yes, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the man's politics, he has a consititutional right to be heard. What many of those who object to his being allowed his platform is that 100 years ago pretty much the same objections were being raised in attempt to prevent the Labour party putting their "radical" views across....

 

[Steve Smith]

he has a consititutional right to be heard.

Does he?

I do think he should be allowed to appear though, if just to prove what we know already. That he's a bigot and a racist. But I don't think he has a constitutional right to be heard.

but we live in a democratic and free country and all political parties should be able to air their views..

Not if those views are illegal, such as racism.


Steve.

 

[fracster]

Yes he does Steve.

Unless he starts inciting "trouble" during his wonderfully intellectual and fair minded speeches.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Does he?

I do think he should be allowed to appear though, if just to prove what we know already. That he's a bigot and a racist. But I don't think he has a constitutional right to be heard.



Not if those views are illegal, such as racism.


Steve.

Yes he does, he's an elected official, a member of the European Parliament. If he's not allowed to have his say then who is next? If the BBC fall out with Labour (again) should all their politicians be prevented from appearing on programmes like QT? You can't have it both ways, either they all get to put their point across, or nobody does.

 

[Steve Smith]

You could be correct that he has the right to be heard but if he starts giving out racist views, that is illegal and will overide any right he has to be heard.


Steve.

 

[garymicheal]

why shouldn't he be heard, everyone else has there say, its down to the voters in the end he may shoot himself in the foot just like the thieving scum expense cheats

 

[raythefab]

You could be correct that he has the right to be heard but if he starts giving out racist views, that is illegal and will overide any right he has to be heard.


Steve.

What is racist, who invented the word your argument would carry more weight if we saw the police prosecuting the the people who call some of our teenagers white boy, and i know it happens it has been said to one of my grandsons its got to work both ways

 

[lawrie29]

I think he should be allowed. As soon as you ban something, there is a certain element of society that are attacted to it. He should be put in a position where someone can pull apart anything he says and make him look stupid.

Lets face it, QT will have the largest number of viewers for a long time with this hype, so the BBC are getting viewers if nothing else.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

You could be correct that he has the right to be heard but if he starts giving out racist views, that is illegal and will overide any right he has to be heard.


Steve.

Somehow I doubt he's going to stand up and recite Hitler's Nuremberg speech

 

[david700]

I think its an ideal opportunity to put some tough questions to somebody, who spouts his party doctrine, but up until now has had limited sound bytes and like most politicians is economical with saying what they truly believe.

I do hope,that like most Question Time audiences,they have selected a true representation and cross section of society and not a selected 'safe' audience.

Lets not be under any illusion here - Griffin is in for a rough ride tonight. Its a new experience for him and he will be up against some seasoned,experienced political debaters.
He is used to listening to the applause from his followers, at meetings with limited attendance unlike the other panel members,who have been heckled and barracked by those in opposition to them.


I,d be surprised if he lasts the duration of the programme, but the true nature of his parties policies should be laid bare for all to see tonight.

david700

 

[treeman]

Whilst I fully support his right to speak, Steve does make a good point that racist comments are illegal in this country, whether you support it or not, and Mr Griffin may be treading a fine line.

My only fear is that The BNP are no fools, and well aware that getting across their message whilst the economy is not in brilliant shape and there's general discord across the country, will only boost their ratings especially amongst the knee jerk tabloid readers.

On the other hand the tabloid readers probably don't watch it anyway

 

[Flash In The Pan]

I,d be surprised if he lasts the duration of the programme,

His politics may be questionable, but he's erudite and from what I saw of him at the time of the European elections, more than able to stand his ground.

 

[Steve Smith]

Whilst I fully support his right to speak, Steve does make a good point that racist comments are illegal in this country, whether you support it or not, and Mr Griffin may be treading a fine line.

It's not just Griffin who 'may be treading a fine line' but the BBC too as they are responsible for their output.

I also fully support his right to speak, albeit within the confines of the law, despite dis-agreeing with just about everything he stands for.


Steve.

 

[Steep]

I don't understand, I thought TP had a rule "No Politics"

Yesterday a thread almost identical to this one (quite correctly) got deleted but this one is allowed to stay?

 

[raythefab]

I don't understand, I thought TP had a rule "No Politics"

Yesterday a thread almost identical to this one (quite correctly) got deleted but this one is allowed to stay?

I agree it wants deleting its sure to kick off if it isnt

 

[david700]

On the other hand the tabloid readers probably don't watch it anyway

Maybe they wont, but working in Blackburn I know 15,000 of Jack Straw's constituents will be watching intently tonight.
Its an early Xmas present / electioneering opportunity for him.

He will have to be on top of his game otherwise he may find himself 'unemployed' come next May

 

[Flash In The Pan]

I don't understand, I thought TP had a rule "No Politics"

Yesterday a thread almost identical to this one (quite correctly) got deleted but this one is allowed to stay?

I thought the post was about whether someone should be allowed on a BBC tv programme, not about politics per se

 

[Quaker]

I don't understand, I thought TP had a rule "No Politics"

Yesterday a thread almost identical to this one (quite correctly) got deleted but this one is allowed to stay?

I did actually check the rules before posting regarding Prohibited Content:

Prohibited Content

The following content is prohibited on talkphotography.co.uk.
Discussion of, encouraging of, or admitting to illegal activities, including, but not limited to :
Copying, distributing, uploading, downloading, or sharing copyrighted material
How to bypass copyright protection
How to obtain copyrighted material
Hacked or reverse engineered code
How to circumvent any payment systems
Peer to Peer software (even for legitimate use)
Breaking/bypassing EULA agreements
Linking to such information
Adverts or commercial content or solicitations. We do not allow traders or commercial ventures selling or trading on the forums, either items, services or otherwise unless explicitly pre-approved by the site administrators. If you wish to use the forums commercially, please Contact Us with your request and details.
Links to commercial sites by members with a financial or personal link to said sites.
Market research, surveys or similar, unless pre-approved with the site Administrators.
Promotion or details of, or links/URLs to affiliate, commission, referral, pyramid or multi-level marketing schemes.
Pornography or otherwise offensive material.
Private details of anyone, even if freely available elsewhere.
Offering or requesting to be sent privately, any prohibited content.
Any threads or posts the staff believe are not within the spirit of Talk Photography, regardless of content.

I came to the conclusion, after reading the rules it would be OK to post it.

The rule highlighted in red caught my eye..

 

[raythefab]

I did actually check the rules before posting regarding Prohibited Content:

Prohibited Content

The following content is prohibited on talkphotography.co.uk.
Discussion of, encouraging of, or admitting to illegal activities, including, but not limited to :
Copying, distributing, uploading, downloading, or sharing copyrighted material
How to bypass copyright protection
How to obtain copyrighted material
Hacked or reverse engineered code
How to circumvent any payment systems
Peer to Peer software (even for legitimate use)
Breaking/bypassing EULA agreements
Linking to such information
Adverts or commercial content or solicitations. We do not allow traders or commercial ventures selling or trading on the forums, either items, services or otherwise unless explicitly pre-approved by the site administrators. If you wish to use the forums commercially, please Contact Us with your request and details.
Links to commercial sites by members with a financial or personal link to said sites.
Market research, surveys or similar, unless pre-approved with the site Administrators.
Promotion or details of, or links/URLs to affiliate, commission, referral, pyramid or multi-level marketing schemes.
Pornography or otherwise offensive material.
Private details of anyone, even if freely available elsewhere.
Offering or requesting to be sent privately, any prohibited content.
Any threads or posts the staff believe are not within the spirit of Talk Photography, regardless of content.

I came to the conclusion, after reading the rules it would be OK to post it.

The rule highlighted in red caught my eye..

This is the one i think
Any threads or posts the staff believe are not within the spirit of Talk Photography

 

[david700]

I don't understand, I thought TP had a rule "No Politics"

?

I dont see any of the posts advocating support for any political party.
What I do see is a discussion about the rights and wrongs of democratic free speech.

If their is a 'No Politics' rule, the recent discussions/postings relating to government policy and advice about stop and search /terrorism law may also fall into this remit ?

Im sure the mods will be excercising due diligence

 

[2blue4u]

I think the BNP would be much more of a force in British politics without him. He's an oaf and an imbecile. I suspect his appearance will do more harm than good for the BNP.

 

[Steep]

Threads concerning politics and religion invariably go only one direction - down, which is why I was under the impression they were not allowed.

 

[Mattwood]

"if we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."

^ pretty much my view on it. Let him speak.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

He's an oaf and an imbecile.

imbeclie (n) -"A person of moderate to severe mental retardation having a mental age of from three to seven years and generally being capable of some degree of communication and performance of simple tasks under supervision. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive."

Yet he still managed to gain a degree in history and law from Cambridge :shrug:

They should just have an edition of QT where they lock him in a room with Shami Chakrabarti - I'd pay good money to watch that

 

[david700]

Threads concerning politics and religion invariably go only one direction - down, which is why I was under the impression they were not allowed.

First paragraph,Agreed - but it makes for an interesting distraction all the same

 

[TG.]

His politics may be questionable, but he's erudite and from what I saw of him at the time of the European elections, more than able to stand his ground.

Indeed a very literate and plausible character, if it was anyone else from the BNP they may get slated, as i seen a couple of months ago on a Sunday morning show when they had 2 of the representative's on the big question show, another thing from looking at a show this morning is that there will be members of the BNP in the audience, which i suppose was inevitable, otherwise the BBC could be accused of setting him up for a fall, while i don't hold with the views of the BNP the only reason they are were they are now is because this government has refused to address the uncontrolled mass immigration problem legal and illegal, and working class folk have had enough of the country's resources getting drained, they always come back with the excuse "yes but British people are also leaving the country" yes they are because they have had enough, not necessarily because they want to, the biggest problem with that is, that the people who are leaving are taking there money with them, and the majority who are coming in don't have any, it can only end in chaos, rant over

 

[dod]

Out of Focus Totally unrelated off topic type stuff, jokes, rants, raves..anything at all thats nothing to do with photography, but please, no politics or religion!

It's there to stop "My party's better than your party" type stuff.

Yesterday's thread got deleted as the OP edited out the original post. This one at the moment is bang on the border line (it might yet get sent off to the place for bad threads) as I'm not sure how you can really seperate the original question from your personal views on the BNP. First sign of trouble and it'll definitely go

If their is a 'No Politics' rule, the recent discussions/postings relating to government policy and advice about stop and search /terrorism law may also fall into this remit ?

Im sure the mods will be excercising due diligence

There's a slight difference in that they're not discussing party politics, they're more to do with legislation. I know that's a bit tenuous as the legislation is often drawn from the colour of the party in power at the time but those threads don't generally get into the sort of argument that these encourage. I'm using argument rather than debate deliberately

 

[Quaker]

Maybe it should be incorporated into the "Rules" of the forum?

My apologies as I didn't see the " Totally unrelated off topic type stuff, jokes, rants, raves..anything at all thats nothing to do with photography, but please, no politics or religion!"

So feel free to close the thread.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

I'm not sure how you can really seperate the original question from your personal views on the BNP.

I can, and do. I find their underlying ethos abhorent, but I feel Griffin should be allowed to put his case across. Those whose views are diametrically opposed to Griffin's, such as the aforementioned Shami Chakrabarti hae been allowed airtime to voice their case, so it's only fair that he gets the opportunity to do likewise.

 

[david700]

Maybe it should be incorporated into the "Rules" of the forum?

My apologies as I didn't see the " Totally unrelated off topic type stuff, jokes, rants, raves..anything at all thats nothing to do with photography, but please, no politics or religion!"

So feel free to close the thread.

As above and seconded......... Now where's that Question Time forum !!:shrug:

 

[Grendel]

I think before this ends up going the wrong way......