Puppy farming, one down ..

[Cobra]

Members of a Milton Keynes puppy farming gang have been jailed for a total of more than 18 years after masterminding a large operation and trafficking sick puppies into the country.
This operation was led by the Cawley family who were illegally breeding and importing puppies to supply to third parties - or frontmen - to be sold to unsuspecting members of the public on their behalf.

If you bother to click through HERE its interesting ( or maybe not eh? ) to note the location of the ring leaders.

 

[Sky]

Not long enough though . . .

 

[lindsay]

Longest sentence 3years 9 months, so the worst of them will be out in less than 2 years. You can only hope that the £100k costs will be taken in cash and kind from the evil barstewards whilst they are in chokey. I doubt a 10 year order to not have dogs will be obeyed. These sort need to be treated rather more biblically, by being made to live in the conditions they put the poor dogs in.

 

[THIRTYFIVEMILL]

Absolutely horrendous. They were lucky I wasn't the judge.

 

[Cobra]

I doubt a 10 year order to not have dogs will be obeyed.

I doubt it either Lindsay
You just don't know what is happening under your nose, one two of the aforementioned addresses ( not the "Camp" ) is only a few hundred yards from me

 

[Gremlin]

Tip of the iceberg TBH, supply and demand which has also fueled the increase in the price of puppies
that people had to have during the pandemic.
It's nice to hear that at least this lot have been stopped for now
When will people listen and not buy dogs from these places

 

[tijuana taxi]

We often drive past a demonstration outside a puppy breeding place near us.
https://www.elystandard.co.uk/news/camp-beagle-protest-cambs-attracts-hundreds-8135294

Always toot and dropped some bottled water off last week for them.
Good luck to them and I don't even like Dogs

 

[Cobra]

Tip of the iceberg TBH

I'm sure it is.

supply and demand which has also fueled the increase in the price of puppies
that people had to have during the pandemic.

I know, its outrageous the "normal" prices being asked, I suspect but don't know these are "cut price" which is the attraction.
The 2 local addresses to me, are just your average houses / flats in an average road(s) .

Of course the addresses listed for the ring leaders, is slightly different, and I suspect that people wouldn't buy from there anyway

 

[Sky]

I wonder how much longer it will be until these 'pandemic purchasers' start dumping these dogs when they realise they don't stay as a puppy for long?

 

[THIRTYFIVEMILL]

I wonder how much longer it will be until these 'pandemic purchasers' start dumping these dogs when they realise they don't stay as a puppy for long?

They already have. TBH, the real animal lovers get their dogs from the RSPCA and shelters.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Longest sentence 3years 9 months, so the worst of them will be out in less than 2 years. You can only hope that the £100k costs will be taken in cash and kind from the evil barstewards whilst they are in chokey. I doubt a 10 year order to not have dogs will be obeyed. These sort need to be treated rather more biblically, by being made to live in the conditions they put the poor dogs in.

Agreed, and I hope that they 100K costs can be recovered from them, but let's be clear about this - the RSPCA always manage to claim incredibly high costs whenever they prosecute, those costs are greatly exaggerated so that they both profit directly from the convicted people and also con dotty old ladies into leaving them money

 

[arclight]

If it had been up to me none of these people would be breathing the planet's valuable oxygen.

 

[THIRTYFIVEMILL]

They already have. TBH, the real animal lovers get their dogs from the RSPCA and shelters.

@Sky Sorry mate but why wouldn't you? I'm not saying if you don't you're not but with so many animals needing a home then why wouldn't you take from that pool if you really love animals?

 

[Sky]

The sad face was for the 'They already have.'

 

[THIRTYFIVEMILL]

The sad face was for the 'They already have.'

Gottya mate.

 

[Gremlin]

Of course the addresses listed for the ring leaders, is slightly different, and I suspect that people wouldn't buy from there anyway

I doubt anyone gets near the address, sold from the back of a van/car boot in lay-bys or motorways services station after being arranged by phone call to a mobile number

Sorry mate but why wouldn't you? I'm not saying if you don't you're not but with so many animals needing a home then why wouldn't you take from that pool if you really love animals?

They come with a lot of baggage that has to be sorted or back they go. Round here I am already hearing the results of pandemic pups, owners going back to work and dogs howling barking all day as they are left alone
I always promised my self a dog that I would have from a pup and raise without the problems but it never happened
I've had some wonderful companions in my life but they were hard work to sort out after a bad start.

 

[THIRTYFIVEMILL]

I doubt anyone gets near the address, sold from the back of a va/car boot in lay bys or motorways services station after being arranged by phone call to a mobile number



They come with a lot of baggage that has to be sorted or back they go. Round here I am already hearing the results of pandemic pups, owners going back to work and dogs howling barking all day as they are left alone
I always promised my self a dog that I would have from a pup and raise without the problems but it never happened
I've had some wonderful companions in my life but they were hard work to sort out after a bad start.

Yes, my son is adopted. It's hard work sometimes but well worth it.

 

[Cobra]

I doubt anyone gets near the address, sold from the back of a van/car boot in lay-bys or motorways services station after being arranged by phone call to a mobile number

Did you read the article, that gave the ring leaders addresses?
In my comments, they were being sold from private addresses, around MK area. 2 very local to me.

I wonder how much longer it will be until these 'pandemic purchasers' start dumping these dogs when they realise they don't stay as a puppy for long?

I said that way back, once people are back to work, there will be a lot of handed in or just kicked out pups / dogs

the RSPCA always manage to claim incredibly high costs whenever they prosecute,

I remember a few times we have agreed on the actual principles ( or not) of them

 

[lindsay]

Not that I necessarily disagree about the RSPCA capitalising on misfortune in a way, but my sister runs one of the regional branches, as a volunteer, and invariably has various rodent-types and cats and sometimes dogs lodging with her awaiting a home, she is on call 24/7 to take possession of rescued animals, of course accompanied by the inspectors who sometimes have a dangerous job (wrt the animals and also the humans involved). At present the charity is overwhelmed in most parts of the country with dumped and rescued animals, all of whom need veterinary treatment which needs paying for. We are having a pair of kittens from her next month when they are old enough, having been rescued from a house with 31 cats living in squalor and they part of a 1 week old litter.
I realise most of this is irrelevant, it just touched a nerve, this subject always does with me.

 

[Cobra]

it just touched a nerve, this subject always does with me.

There is nothing wrong with them at local level, by any means Lindsay,
And the volunteers do a great great job, I'm sure
But its the organisation further up as a whole
I happen to know where a lot of the skeletons are buried.
But that's not something I would ever share.
Far too many people would find it distressing ..

 

[Garry Edwards]

Not that I necessarily disagree about the RSPCA capitalising on misfortune in a way, but my sister runs one of the regional branches, as a volunteer, and invariably has various rodent-types and cats and sometimes dogs lodging with her awaiting a home, she is on call 24/7 to take possession of rescued animals, of course accompanied by the inspectors who sometimes have a dangerous job (wrt the animals and also the humans involved). At present the charity is overwhelmed in most parts of the country with dumped and rescued animals, all of whom need veterinary treatment which needs paying for. We are having a pair of kittens from her next month when they are old enough, having been rescued from a house with 31 cats living in squalor and they part of a 1 week old litter.
I realise most of this is irrelevant, it just touched a nerve, this subject always does with me.

It's a bit of a sore subject with me too.
There are two different RSPCA organisations. There are the local branches, usually staffed by dedicated volunteers. These people do a lot of animal rescue work, re-homing, fundraising for the other RSPCA, supporting the paid inspectors (where they actually exist) or doing their job, free, where they don't, educating the public and other useful work. I was once a branch Chairman myself, so have some experience.

And then there's the office side, which spends the money on generating publicity, employing very highly paid "specialists" who are firmly glued to their chairs, setting themselves up as experts on all aspects of animal welfare, and who (in my opinion) con the little old ladies who make them rich into leaving them legacies that they don't actually need because they spend very little on animal welfare. They also con the public with their Farm Assurance Scheme, which any farmer can join provided that they have a cheque book.

Edit: Post crossed with Cobra, which made my redundant

 

[Cobra]

Edit: Post crossed with Cobra, which made my redundant

Not at all Garry
You were just confirming what I had written

 

[Mr Bump]

dogs are just accessories now adays
facebook pictures
things to display at the local real ale pub

 

[Tringa]

I would have liked to have seen a lifetime ban from keeping animals, along with more severe sentences.

I'd also like to see something being done about the importing of dogs/cats etc. I don't know how it could be made to work as there are probably some bona fide reasons for importing but it seems too easy at present.

Unfortunately the demand for pups and designer dogs has fuelled this sort of trade, which is sad when there are so many dogs, in rescue centres here, that really need homes.

Dave

 

[Cobra]

dogs are just accessories now adays
facebook pictures
things to display at the local real ale pub

I fear you are right in a lot of cases...

and designer dogs

You mean hybrids / tribrids and mongrels.

 

[Marc]

There is nothing wrong with them at local level, by any means Lindsay,
And the volunteers do a great great job, I'm sure
But its the organisation further up as a whole
I happen to know where a lot of the skeletons are buried.
But that's not something I would ever share.
Far too many people would find it distressing ..

Yes indeed, I have nothing but admiration for the people at the front end of the RSPCA. Those at the top, not so much but you could say that about many of the larger charities (and a few smaller ones too ).

 

[broc]

My mother in law had a friend who's daughter worked for a large charity as a secretary, she was provided with a company car as a 'perk'........ she had no need of a car for her employment.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

It's about 35 years since I did a stint at the Charity Commission, part of it working with the enforcement team. Possibly, things have changed (the people who handled investigations worked hard enough to achieve that). The sad truth is that the word "Charity" seemed then to equate with "trough", for too many of the people who drew salaries from donations.

 

[JohnC6]

It's a bit of a sore subject with me too.
There are two different RSPCA organisations. There are the local branches, usually staffed by dedicated volunteers. These people do a lot of animal rescue work, re-homing, fundraising for the other RSPCA, supporting the paid inspectors (where they actually exist) or doing their job, free, where they don't, educating the public and other useful work. I was once a branch Chairman myself, so have some experience.

And then there's the office side, which spends the money on generating publicity, employing very highly paid "specialists" who are firmly glued to their chairs, setting themselves up as experts on all aspects of animal welfare, and who (in my opinion) con the little old ladies who make them rich into leaving them legacies that they don't actually need because they spend very little on animal welfare. They also con the public with their Farm Assurance Scheme, which any farmer can join provided that they have a cheque book.

Edit: Post crossed with Cobra, which made my redundant

Re the Farm Assurance Scheme I do recall a TV investigative programme about that.It was a good while ago so I can't recall which one but it left an impression with me and that impression was exactly what you've highlighted. A sham of a scheme. How can the public ever have confidence in a body that is supposed to carry out oversight when the companies etc involved fund it ?

 

[JohnC6]

It's about 35 years since I did a stint at the Charity Commission, part of it working with the enforcement team. Possibly, things have changed (the people who handled investigations worked hard enough to achieve that). The sad truth is that the word "Charity" seemed then to equate with "trough", for too many of the people who drew salaries from donations.

I stopped my contributions to a large animal welfare charity when I read that 6 of the top people went to see the turtle farms in Grand Cayman

This Turtle Tourist Center Also Raises Endangered Turtles for Meat

Animal advocates accuse the Cayman Turtle Centre of mistreating its sea turtles and stoking demand for the meat of an endangered species, claims it denies.

www.nationalgeographic.com

I read about it in one of the contributions by an ex-employee in Glassdoor. Glassdoor is an American website where a potential employee can see what a company is like to work for from reviews left by current and ex employees. I received a long letter of 'explanation' from one of the senior management team. It seems that I wasn't the only member to have stopped donations.The person writing to me told me that so many other members had stopped their direct debits as a result of that review contribution that the charity had called a top level meeting to discuss what to do about it.

I then read up on this kind of thing and one suggestion I came across was to fund small local animal welfare charities which struggle.

 

[JohnC6]

Members of a Milton Keynes puppy farming gang have been jailed for a total of more than 18 years after masterminding a large operation and trafficking sick puppies into the country.
This operation was led by the Cawley family who were illegally breeding and importing puppies to supply to third parties - or frontmen - to be sold to unsuspecting members of the public on their behalf.

If you bother to click through HERE its interesting ( or maybe not eh? ) to note the location of the ring leaders.

I wanted to know who this family was and found this article in your local paper and it highlights why, on the whole, I despise defence solicitors/barristers.

My question is that as the ring leaders are Irish why can't they be deported after serving their sentence ?... or rather the part of it they actually serve...another bone of contention for many.

Callous Milton Keynes dog smugglers threw dead pup's body away in a bin bag, court hears

The dogs were shipped from Ireland and riddled with disease when they were sold

www.miltonkeynes.co.uk

 

[Garry Edwards]

dogs are just accessories now adays
facebook pictures
things to display at the local real ale pub

Sadly, yes. The pandemic has led to a vast number of people getting pets of all types, but especially dogs, without giving enough (or any) thought to the fact that they would be going back to work one day. And of course, many people buy a specific breed of dog or a specific cross, just because of its looks. They can't be bothered to research the breed characteristics and are very likely to end up with a dog that has unacceptable behaviour bred into it, for example the various Husky and hound breeds that just want to be completely independent and won't come back when called, or they get a Border Collie, bred to work, keep it in a small flat and take it for a short walk from time to time . . .
Speaking of which, my son has just lost his own Border Collie, a rescue. She was 18 years old and they had the closest relationship I've ever seen. She worked sheep until she lost her hearing, then carried on working them on hand signals - which worked whenever she remembered to turn to look at him in case he was signalling, then her eyesight diminished and she retired but, still needing work to do, he created 'work' for her. Some dogs are truly loved and truly cared for.

It's about 35 years since I did a stint at the Charity Commission, part of it working with the enforcement team. Possibly, things have changed (the people who handled investigations worked hard enough to achieve that). The sad truth is that the word "Charity" seemed then to equate with "trough", for too many of the people who drew salaries from donations.

Agreed. I've been involved with a tiny animal charity for the last 30+ years. We have a very small number of paid employees but when I wrote the Trust Deed I a rule that the Trustees
cannot receive any payment of any kind (in fact none of them even claim expenses) and in my view this is how all charities should operate. Paying staff is different, they need to be paid, all that our rule does is to stop Trustees from being employed. And, big charities have been able to get government help due to the pandemic because, in effect they are businesses and so qualify for most of the help that businesses qualified for. I think you can guess how much government help we got . . .

Re the Farm Assurance Scheme I do recall a TV investigative programme about that.It was a good while ago so I can't recall which one but it left an impression with me and that impression was exactly what you've highlighted. A sham of a scheme. How can the public ever have confidence in a body that is supposed to carry out oversight when the companies etc involved fund it ?

Up to a point, all such schemes are funded by the farmers, the difference with the RSPCA one is that, in reality, all that the farmers need to do is to pay their money and "aspire" to reach reasonable standards

 

[Cobra]

found this article in your local paper

I'd not seen that TFS

it highlights why, on the whole, I despise defence solicitors/barristers.

Some of the excuses these people come up with is unbelievable

My question is that as the ring leaders are Irish why can't they be deported after serving their sentence ?...

They are most likely 2nd or possibly 3rd generation, living on a council approved site for "static" vans.
That "traveler" site one of two, has been there quite a few years.
This article is 3 years old, but it gives you an idea

 

[JohnC6]

I'd not seen that TFS

Some of the excuses these people come up with is unbelievable


They are most likely 2nd or possibly 3rd generation, living on a council approved site for "static" vans.
That "traveler" site one of two, has been there quite a few years.
This article is 3 years old, but it gives you an idea

Yes, that's true. People say they're Irish but by now most will have been born here. They just keep the accent from grandparents.

That Willen Road, Newport Pagnall site rang a bell with me. Yes...I see it was just back in June. https://www.mkfm.com/news/local-new...ng-investigated-following-residents-concerns/

Bit of a contradiction here. What a councillor said when approached by the newspaper

Calverton Lane has 12 permanent pitches for members of the travelling community. Willen Road has six pitches and is home to 18 adults and 13 children.

If they're permanent then the occupiers can't be called 'travellers' I assume the families don't move on allowing another family to move in .Permanent means permanent. Passed down the generations, I suppose.I don;'t think the laws have been tough enough. It's a complex issue. They can't be kicked out onto the streets,if only because of the children..always the children. I saw a documentary one day,not long ago and the tv people accompanied council officers and there'd been some issues and a kid of about 7 years of age stepped forward from his uncle, the person who was being dealt with and with one leg infront of the other he bellolwed, very aggressively at the two council officers. "Don't you effing well talk to my uncle like dat...." 7 years old ? Irish accent, too. His uncle just gently pulled him away from the officers. There's no hope,really.

 

[Cobra]

That Willen Road, Newport Pagnall site rang a bell with me. Yes...I see it was just back in June

I'd forgotten about that yes it widely reported at the time, and the general consensus was, it was tyres

If they're permanent then the occupiers can't be called 'travellers' I assume the families don't move on allowing another family to move in .

Nope they stay.
The Travelers arrive en mass, we have very wide grass verges along many of our road, and they just park up on those.
Although recently " mud mounds" have been added between these and the roads. Not the prettiest things I'll admit.
But since they have mostly grassed over now, they aren't too bad, I supposed.
But of course "someone" usually finds away around it, by driving to the next junction and then driving up the grass verge to the widest part.

"Don't you effing well talk to my uncle like dat...." 7 years old ? Irish accent, too.

 

[Gremlin]

We have several sites round here, a lot bigger then those mentioned and with static mobile homes installed, they are
well established communities and have been there for as long as I can remember
A couple of weeks ago the police asked all the pubs to shut for the day as a traveler's funeral was taking place and
travelers from all over arrive to attend causing problems in the past
In one case a few years back when the matriach died, she was living in social housing, all here goods were piled in the street and burnt in the traditional. Fire brigade were on stand by, and to their credit the travelers repaired the road asap

 

[hashcake]

Utter scum, I'm pleased they got caught.
As usual the British judicial systems lets them of lightly.
Now, onto the stupid people who buy from a puppy farm.
Any dog lover who has a clue about pedigree dogs, knows they don't provide / show kennel club paperwork for the parents.
On more than one occasion I have called someone stupid when they have obviously bought from an illegal breeder.
If I offend someone I really don't care because I care for the dog not the clueless idiot who owns it.
Off topic but the idea of cross breeding so called pedigree dogs to come up with stupid so called breeds like a Cockerpoo grates on me as well.

 

[Cobra]

Now, onto the stupid people who buy from a puppy farm.

The problem is or certainly was, as I see it Daz, people were so desperate to break the confined to barracks rule during the lock downs,
they were buying dogs at an alarming rate, just so they could get out the house
The breeders caught onto that and raised the prices exponentially, supply and demand and all that.
I guess these "illegal" dogs were a lot cheaper and people understandably went for the bargain basement, human nature.

Off topic but the idea of cross breeding so called pedigree dogs to come up with stupid so called breeds like a Cockerpoo grates on me as well.

I've already mentioned that, but yes I agree wholeheartedly, if they want a cross breed / mongrel etc. then fair enough.
Its not a designer breed, they the breeders are not gods, just call the dog what it is.
Going back a few years I remember the accidental crosses that occurred, one way or another, were always sold a lot cheaper than a full bred dog.
And not for a ridiculously high price.

I was in Tesco awhile back. I happened to spot a young woman with a not sure what its called, but it was a very large scarf wrap, acres of fabric wrapped
around her neck and shoulders. As I passed her, a tiny dogs face appeared from within the wrap.
1) No dogs allowed in store
2) more to the points, I've seen bigger a week or two old pups

 

[hashcake]

The problem is or certainly was, as I see it Daz, people were so desperate to break the confined to barracks rule during the lock downs,
they were buying dogs at an alarming rate, just so they could get out the house
The breeders caught onto that and raised the prices exponentially, supply and demand and all that.
I guess these "illegal" dogs were a lot cheaper and people understandably went for the bargain basement, human nature.


I've already mentioned that, but yes I agree wholeheartedly, if they want a cross breed / mongrel etc. then fair enough.
Its not a designer breed, they the breeders are not gods, just call the dog what it is.
Going back a few years I remember the accidental crosses that occurred, one way or another, were always sold a lot cheaper than a full bred dog.
And not for a ridiculously high price.

I was in Tesco awhile back. I happened to spot a young woman with a not sure what its called, but it was a very large scarf wrap, acres of fabric wrapped
around her neck and shoulders. As I passed her, a tiny dogs face appeared from within the wrap.
1) No dogs allowed in store
2) more to the points, I've seen bigger a week or two old pups

That's a fair point but even before covid I'd come across quite a few people who had bought a puppy from a farm and they we too young to leave the mother and they had no idea about this.
Now, perhaps it's just the way I think or perhaps because my mother use to breed King Charles Cavalier Spaniels, I understand about the kennel club and pedigree dogs.
However, in this day and age a little research can make a massive difference.
There really is no excuse for not using google (obviously only those with an internet connection) in this day and age.
Although having said that my sister is in her late 70s and she happily looks up things via her phone.

Sadly the woman in Tesco doesn't surprise me in the slightest as I've also know people who have bought and taken home a six week old puppy.
A friend of mine bought a Border Collie puppy from a reputable breeder a couple of months ago and it cost her £1800
I've not had a pedigree dog for years but it was only a few years ago a couple of GSD owners told me it would cost over a grand to buy from a reputable breeder and the early 90s I paid £350 for my GSD.

.

 

[Cobra]

That's a fair point but even before covid I'd come across quite a few people who had bought a puppy from a farm and they we too young to leave the mother and they had no idea about this.

Absolutely agree Daz, puppy farming has been going on longer than I can remember.
It just seemed to escalate over the last couple of years.

I've not had a pedigree dog for years but it was only a few years ago a couple of GSD owners told me it would cost over a grand to buy from a reputable breeder and the early 90s I paid £350 for my GSD.

I bought a GSP from working stock, to be worked, she wasn't cheap, cost me around £500
That was over 20 years ago now. ( and actually expensive at the time)

Great dogs, only 2 brain cells, getting them to work together was the real challenge