Prejudice and Predators

WillNicholls

WillNicholls

Suspended / Banned
Messages
2,004
Name
Will
Edit My Images
No
Hi all,

Very interesting article by Peter Cairns appeared today! Using the pine marten as an example, it discusses the modern day views on conservation of predators.

I agree with his words, as I too hear people complaining of indigenous animals being conserved, because they eat and kill other animals which people don't like to think of being hurt. It's natural, and that's how the world keeps itself turning.

What do you think? Have a read! http://www.naturettl.com/opinion-prejudice-predators/
 
Heard all this from Matt at the BWC, seems that even though Pine Martens are in decline and only actually in very few places in the UK
there is very strong opposition to reintroducing them elsewhere by those wanting to preserve game, and strong calls to cull them :(
I also understand that attempts to reintroduce them into new areas have failed for natural reasons, the environment doesn't seem correct
to sustain them, real shame I would love to see them in the wild near me
.
They are my favourite of the mustelid family, beautiful creatures
 
My understanding is that the population is recovering but slowly and from a low base. the Vincent Wildlife Trust have some information. There seems to be some evidence that pine martin recover is good for red squirrels on account of the fact they prey on greys.

I reckon opposition is almost entirely driven by those with an economic interest in game shooting.
 
I heard a really interesting thing from George Monbiot at a talk he gave about re-wilding.

Pine martens are able to catch and eat grey squirrels because the squirrels are too heavy to reach the very ends of branches where the pine martens can't get to.

Red Squirrels, however, are so light that they can get to these places which are safe from the martens.

So if there are both red and grey squirrels in an area, re-introduction of pine martens can be beneficial to the reds. We all know greys are cute but they are not known as tree-rats for nothing. If george Monbiot is correct, many of the more knowledgeable people would be in favour of reintroductions, I think.
 
@WillNicholls


IMO Will, the biggest problem is the old fashioned view that anything that can kill game birds should be destroyed. I have seen game books for estates north and south of the scottish border,estates that have recently stopped shooting. The entries in those game books was truly horrific. ( For those that don`t know, gamekeepers used to keep books that listed all the "vermin" that the keepers killed).

Predators will gather where food is most plentiful, that means if an estate puts 30,000 pheasant down, then the predators will gather in that area. It is like us living next door to a chippy,easy food will be taken rather than hard earned meals. That is nature and it won`t change.

The estate I work on is a non shooting estate surrounded by shooting estates, we regulalry have heated exchanges with the nearby keepers and sometimes need to escort them off and remove things they have "misplaced".

I live in an area that has some of the very few English hen harriers, these birds have nests fail year upon year. Yes they are ground nesters so are in danger of certain predators, but every single year?....Doubtful that human intervention is not a cause, especially when they nest so close to the big grouse shooting moors. But hell, that is what they live on,amongst other things. Surely there is enough grouse for the shooters and for the harriers to exists together,it appears not.

Ospreys are making a big come back,it won`t be long before the salmon fishermen are saying there are too many, as they have with otters. They would kill anything that can take salmon, i`m surprised kingfishers are not persecuted for taking salmon parr yet.

Is the answer to ban shooting? Perhaps, but you are taking away a huge food source for predators, you will take away the woodland management and take money away from the countryside, an area that needs that money to manage the land properly. To ban shooting would take a decent amount of money from those estates as well, money that is vital for the estates to survive and manage themselves properly. The estate that I work on has diversified since Roger,the owner, banned shooting and hunting on it. The estate costs a fortune to run and has to pay for itself, as such, another form of revenue has been devised. The state is to be a wildlife haven and photographic hides have been built and many more will be this winter. Feed is placed to attract all wildlife, hell, I even scrape roadkill up for predators like some bloody hillbilly, but if it works,then so be it. We are seeing success now, but it has been a hard path and doesn`t look like it is getting smoother.

So what is the answer?

I have said it before and will say it until the day I die, until land owners are held accountable for the actions of their staff and what happens on their land, then nothing will change. Stupid out of date attitudes must change,example..." are those buzzards ok,will they not take the sheep?" "Of course they will, let us go and shoot them now hey."...farmer actually thought I was being serious.

Anyway, probably my longest ever post on here, so i`ll stfu now.
 
Nicely put Ade, can't disagree with any of it
 
jerry12953 said:
I heard a really interesting thing from George Monbiot at a talk he gave about re-wilding.

Pine martens are able to catch and eat grey squirrels because the squirrels are too heavy to reach the very ends of branches where the pine martens can't get to.

Red Squirrels, however, are so light that they can get to these places which are safe from the martens.

So if there are both red and grey squirrels in an area, re-introduction of pine martens can be beneficial to the reds. We all know greys are cute but they are not known as tree-rats for nothing. If george Monbiot is correct, many of the more knowledgeable people would be in favour of reintroductions, I think.
Click to expand...
Interestingly we have both pine marten and beech marten on our land here in France and we also have a large population of red squirrels. I have never witnessed a squirrel being taken by either however we do know that rats and mice have featured in their diets.
 
The shooting community do actually contribute quite a lot to habitat management throughout the country. Admittedly the benefits are incidental to the game management activities but nevertheless they easy to overlook when forming an opinion on shooting. The big negative is the process of 'vermin eradication' which at times has been responsible for the destruction of a great many of our native birds of prey, etc. Fortunately shooting estate management is taking a more enlightened approach to such ,matters these days although it is true to say that there are still ignorant people with guns that consider that anything with a hooked beak needs to be killed.
 
A reply from Will, to peoples responses, would have been nice. Seems to be a post driving traffic to his site.

I hope i`m wrong,Will?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top