Beginner Portrait fail :(

Mac7117

Mac7117

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Hi everybody. I'm totally new on here and to processing my own images. I've come across a bit of a problem that's confused me. My apologies if this is a typical boring noob situation however some input from
somebody more knowledgeable than me would be greatly appreciated. Also, apologies if this is in the wrong section.

My friend recently asked me to photograph his daughter Jess. Initially I wasn't keen, as photographing people isn't my 'thing' however he is my friend so I said I'd have a go.

Because of the lack of space and for a bit of variety, I thought I'd try some low key head and shoulder portraits. I tried to completely underexpose the background while lighting Jess at 45°
(ish) with a single speedlight and bounced off a reflector for fill.

I was very happy with the immediate results and after processing the RAW files in Lightroom on my Mac, I thought I'd cracked it. I then transferred the jpeg's onto my laptop so I could put them on my phone.
It was then that I noticed my inky black background was now filled with furniture and drying washing!!!!!:eek:. (I directed the light so it didn't spill onto the background.)

I pretty much grasp that its to do with differences in the monitors however as these files were being prepped to fire off to a lab for printing, how can I ensure the undesirable elements in the background
don't end up in the finished print? The images on my phone look fine btw.

Again, I'd really appreciate some advice before I potentially i waste money on possible failed prints. Thanks.:)

Incidentally, I thoroughly enjoyed photographing Jess and discovered another aspect of photography now that interests me. All it takes with me is that shove through the door:rolleyes:.
 
Need to see the images to comment if I honest.......
 
Monitor calibration.
Plain and simple, you need to know when you're editing that you're doing the best job you can.
 
Phil V said:
Monitor calibration.
Plain and simple, you need to know when you're editing that you're doing the best job you can.
Click to expand...

that, and trying it on different devices. I have one calibrated monitor I process on, but also one that is not calibrated and deliberately brighter and with less contrast. it is great at picking up stuff I haven't noticed in backgrounds ;)
The point being that, even if you are calibrated so you know you have done it "right", you cannot be sure the viewer is using a calibrated monitor so it is good to see how it *might* look to them.

As to printing, I find that a right headache! On screen images will always look a bit different to a printed image so I have found it a case of getting use to those differences and adjusting accordingly. Unfortunately this takes experimentation so is worth doing with test prints. Choose where you want to get your prints from (plenty of advice on good places on this forum....) then send of a few test prints at 6x4. Work from there.....
A lot of the good places have test images you can download so you can view them on your screen and compare to a print they send you. I still found there is no substitute to a range of real life prints though.
 
Hum, not sure. Whilst I take your point that viewers will have a different experience depending on their screen (if presenting to the web), I think it's important to have a calibrated source so the your image is technically correct. You've no idea how far out anyone's monitor or laptop screen is, so why worry about "how it might look to them". Where do you stop? You can't possibly cater for the millions of possibilities, so the only obvious choice is to calibrate your monitor and produce a correct image.

Once you've done this, most professional labs will give you colour profiles for their printers and papers. Lightroom handles these very well and even on the develop module can use soft proofing to show you what the print will look like, gamut warnings etc. once you use these tools it's very easy to produce prints exactly as displayed or expected, you just have to use the right tools.

All this assumes your monitor can be adjusted or profiled, you have a monitor calibration tool and a way of controlling the background lighting In the room you use for editing. Otherwise if you're limited by brightness and contrast adjustment, you can at least use these to set the blacks and whites correctly. Photobox will send you a test print which you can compare against the same image on their website.
 
Byker28i said:
Hum, not sure. Whilst I take your point that viewers will have a different experience depending on their screen (if presenting to the web), I think it's important to have a calibrated source so the your image is technically correct. You've no idea how far out anyone's monitor or laptop screen is, so why worry about "how it might look to them". Where do you stop? You can't possibly cater for the millions of possibilities, so the only obvious choice is to calibrate your monitor and produce a correct image.

Once you've done this, most professional labs will give you colour profiles for their printers and papers. Lightroom handles these very well and even on the develop module can use soft proofing to show you what the print will look like, gamut warnings etc. once you use these tools it's very easy to produce prints exactly as displayed or expected, you just have to use the right tools.

All this assumes your monitor can be adjusted or profiled, you have a monitor calibration tool and a way of controlling the background lighting In the room you use for editing. Otherwise if you're limited by brightness and contrast adjustment, you can at least use these to set the blacks and whites correctly. Photobox will send you a test print which you can compare against the same image on their website.
Click to expand...


We NEVER calibrate monitors for web use images, it causes mayhem :) for print different story, thankfully not a huge amount of what we goes to print.
 
Byker28i said:
Hum, not sure. Whilst I take your point that viewers will have a different experience depending on their screen (if presenting to the web), I think it's important to have a calibrated source so the your image is technically correct. You've no idea how far out anyone's monitor or laptop screen is, so why worry about "how it might look to them". Where do you stop? You can't possibly cater for the millions of possibilities, so the only obvious choice is to calibrate your monitor and produce a correct image.
Click to expand...
I agree but, if web published, 99% of viewers will not have calibrate monitors. So it does no harm to check you image with another viewer. Shadow detail is an example of where something that looks only on a monitor with "correct" gamma can look a bit ugly on a monitor with "incorrect" gamma. Sometimes tweeking the shadow detail can make it look fine on both......
Once you've done this, most professional labs will give you colour profiles for their printers and papers. Lightroom handles these very well and even on the develop module can use soft proofing to show you what the print will look like, gamut warnings etc. once you use these tools it's very easy to produce prints exactly as displayed or expected, you just have to use the right tools.
Click to expand...
I've heard this said a lot but I just don't agree. Print and screen are such different beasts that even a printer profile and soft proofing only gives you a rough approximation of what it will look like on paper. And that is before we consider lighting when viewing a print which has even more effect.....

All this assumes your monitor can be adjusted or profiled, you have a monitor calibration tool and a way of controlling the background lighting In the room you use for editing. Otherwise if you're limited by brightness and contrast adjustment, you can at least use these to set the blacks and whites correctly. Photobox will send you a test print which you can compare against the same image on their website.
Click to expand...

I agree with using calibration, colour profiles, soft proofing etc but still believe that only gets you part way to what you want to see. The rest has to be done by experimentation. Or maybe I just too fussy........ ;)
 
Last edited:
owenb said:
Need to see the images to comment if I honest.......
Click to expand...

Thanks for replying Owen. I did intend posting my attempts here (ref my comment about the right section) however I fully intend to under People and Portraits as I would appreciate pointers in the aesthetic department too. I didn't want that to overshadow my 'technical' issue. :)
 
Phil V said:
Monitor calibration.
Plain and simple, you need to know when you're editing that you're doing the best job you can.
Click to expand...

brman said:
that, and trying it on different devices. I have one calibrated monitor I process on, but also one that is not calibrated and deliberately brighter and with less contrast. it is great at picking up stuff I haven't noticed in backgrounds ;)
The point being that, even if you are calibrated so you know you have done it "right", you cannot be sure the viewer is using a calibrated monitor so it is good to see how it *might* look to them.

As to printing, I find that a right headache! On screen images will always look a bit different to a printed image so I have found it a case of getting use to those differences and adjusting accordingly. Unfortunately this takes experimentation so is worth doing with test prints. Choose where you want to get your prints from (plenty of advice on good places on this forum....) then send of a few test prints at 6x4. Work from there.....
A lot of the good places have test images you can download so you can view them on your screen and compare to a print they send you. I still found there is no substitute to a range of real life prints though.
Click to expand...

Byker28i said:
Hum, not sure. Whilst I take your point that viewers will have a different experience depending on their screen (if presenting to the web), I think it's important to have a calibrated source so the your image is technically correct. You've no idea how far out anyone's monitor or laptop screen is, so why worry about "how it might look to them". Where do you stop? You can't possibly cater for the millions of possibilities, so the only obvious choice is to calibrate your monitor and produce a correct image.

Once you've done this, most professional labs will give you colour profiles for their printers and papers. Lightroom handles these very well and even on the develop module can use soft proofing to show you what the print will look like, gamut warnings etc. once you use these tools it's very easy to produce prints exactly as displayed or expected, you just have to use the right tools.

All this assumes your monitor can be adjusted or profiled, you have a monitor calibration tool and a way of controlling the background lighting In the room you use for editing. Otherwise if you're limited by brightness and contrast adjustment, you can at least use these to set the blacks and whites correctly. Photobox will send you a test print which you can compare against the same image on their website.
Click to expand...

Studio488 said:
We NEVER calibrate monitors for web use images, it causes mayhem :) for print different story, thankfully not a huge amount of what we goes to print.
Click to expand...

WOW!!:eek: When I said I was a beginner, I didn't realise just how much of one!!

Thanks guys for all the info. I understand now where my problem comes from. Calibration solutions aside, I'll get them printed locally 6x4 through trial and error rather than send them off.
 
Ulfric M Douglas said:
Reprocess all of them : darkening the background.
Click to expand...
I thought of doing just that but they look perfect (to me) on my Mac. I'll try it on my laptop, poor thing will probably explode but I'm interested to see if it'll make a difference.
 
Mac7117 said:
I thought of doing just that but they look perfect (to me) on my Mac. I'll try it on my laptop, poor thing will probably explode but I'm interested to see if it'll make a difference.
Click to expand...
Rather than going through the huge learning curve of calibration, open the image on your phone and Mac, turn up the brightness on the Mac till it looks like the phone, reprocess so it looks right. Probably just the black point.
 
Mac7117 said:
I thought of doing just that but they look perfect (to me) on my Mac. I'll try it on my laptop, poor thing will probably explode but I'm interested to see if it'll make a difference.
Click to expand...
All you have to do is raise the brightness of your Mac's screen for the duration of the reprocessing.
 
Phil V said:
Rather than going through the huge learning curve of calibration, open the image on your phone and Mac, turn up the brightness on the Mac till it looks like the phone, reprocess so it looks right. Probably just the black point.
Click to expand...

Ulfric M Douglas said:
All you have to do is raise the brightness of your Mac's screen for the duration of the reprocessing.
Click to expand...
Thanks guys. As I've often heard, every days a school day. I'll definitely try this. I'll post what I come up with for critique. Going by what I've seen on here I've got loads to learn. :ty:
 
Mac7117 said:
WOW!!:eek: When I said I was a beginner, I didn't realise just how much of one!!

Thanks guys for all the info. I understand now where my problem comes from. Calibration solutions aside, I'll get them printed locally 6x4 through trial and error rather than send them off.
Click to expand...
Photobox calibration page. Send them a single 6x4 for printing and get the calibration print back
https://www.photobox.co.uk/content/quality-advice/calibration
 
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