Portable Lighting with TTL ?

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I am looking to upgrade from using remote speedlights to something like a pair of Elinchrom Quadra's, but I was wondering whether the remote TTL technology used by pocket wizard, photix etc will soon become available in portable lighting.

Has any one heard any rumors about TTL Quadra's etc as I would hate to buy a set a few weeks before TTL is announced.
 
The range of modifiers for speedlights is pretty good now.

I would suggest that 3 good powerful TTL speedlights with modifiers is probably the best bet at the moment.

What is it that the speedlights are not doing that you want them to ?
 
Hodders said:
The range of modifiers for speedlights is pretty good now.

I would suggest that 3 good powerful TTL speedlights with modifiers is probably the best bet at the moment.

What is it that the speedlights are not doing that you want them to ?
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I'd agree with the above, especially with adaptors for speedlights to s fit etc.

I'd guess the OP's desire for the 'best of both worlds' is to have modelling lights and TTL.

However, TTL brings it's own issues and lots of photographers using OCF go Manual with speedlights for the improved recycling and battery usage.
 
I have a couple of SB-900's which I use in manual and I find they are not really powerful enough especially if I want to use a shoot through or soft box in difficult conditions. They are ok most of the time but if you want to shoot group under a tree against a landscape in full sun with a modifier the are not up to the job.
 
I'm guessing that the TTL technology isn't included in portable lighting because it would serve no purpose. But that doesn't of course mean that it won't be announced next month at Photokina, that's where new developments are very likely to be announced. And some manufacturers do add useless marketing features, disguised as real benefits, so who knows? As for rumours, in my experience the only people who spread them are the ones who know nothing. The people who do know, keep quiet.

I'm sure that not everyone will agree, but I see TTL in the same was as I see 'P' or any of those silly icons on cameras. They are strictly for beginner use, because once someone has got past the absolute beginner stage they should be capable of making much better decisions than a computer.

TTL can be fairly useful for producing bland results and for adding fill (same thing really) but portable lighting solutions are really about controlling the light, not about adding a bit more.
 
I am quiet happy using manual lighting, but TTL is usefull in certain situations eg. when you want set some thing up very quicky, the lighting conditions are constantly changing or you want to photography a moving subject and the flash to subject distance is changing.

I am sure wireless TTL for portable lighting must be on the cards and if its not there must be a market opening there.
 
Auto-TTL control can only work with IGBT type flash, eg all hot-shoe guns. Very few studio heads use it, and those that do are down on light output, Ws for Ws. Or at least, that is the current state of technology. As Garry says, there are rumours of various manufacturers looking at it, as the potential is fairly obvious.

The only brand that currently combines IGBT and auto-TTL is Quantum. They use radio too, and the spec reads really well, but they're clunky old things and fall a bit short IMHO.

One popular solution is to gang hot-shoe guns, quite commonly used to either get more power or reduce recycle times. Two SB900 guns would give you around 250-300Ws equivalent power.

There are options around to gang 2, 3, 4 or 8. Lastolite Ezybox Quad is worth looking at http://www.lastolite.com/ezybox-quad.php
 
HoppyUK said:
Auto-TTL control can only work with IGBT type flash,
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Ah, I hadn't realised that. But I guess it kind of makes sense. Legacy technology lighting presumably can't be switched fast enough. Which would I guess mean it could never be supported by the current generation of Quadras or Safaris.

Garry Edwards said:
I'm sure that not everyone will agree, but I see TTL in the same was as I see 'P' or any of those silly icons on cameras. They are strictly for beginner use, because once someone has got past the absolute beginner stage they should be capable of making much better decisions than a computer.
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Yes and no. TTL is going to help a lot with moving subjects - or subjects that are moving in relation to the lighting. I've used it in the past for bikes where it wasn't possible to predict what line a rider would take and so needed different amounts of light which had to be decided at the last minute.

I'm pretty sure Dave Black would laugh at the suggestion that he used TTL because he was a beginner.

Vivid Art said:
Has any one heard any rumors about TTL Quadra's etc as I would hate to buy a set a few weeks before TTL is announced.
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It seems from the logic above that they can't support TTL without a major rethink on their tech. I'd be amazed if we didn't see a TTL location light soon though.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Ah, I hadn't realised that. But I guess it kind of makes sense. Legacy technology lighting presumably can't be switched fast enough. Which would I guess mean it could never be supported by the current generation of Quadras or Safaris.



Yes and no. TTL is going to help a lot with moving subjects - or subjects that are moving in relation to the lighting. I've used it in the past for bikes where it wasn't possible to predict what line a rider would take and so needed different amounts of light which had to be decided at the last minute.

I'm pretty sure Dave Black would laugh at the suggestion that he used TTL because he was a beginner.



It seems from the logic above that they can't support TTL without a major rethink on their tech. I'd be amazed if we didn't see a TTL location light soon though.
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Yes, of course it has its uses, it isn't only for beginners. What I'm saying is that, very largely, it's a marketing feature (rather than a real benefit) aimed at beginners who are very likely to move over to manual once they've got the basics.

I'd be amazed if we didn't see a TTL location light soon though.
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So would I. But I would also be amazed if it sold in any quantity:)
 
I wouldn't say that TTL will create bland results or is for beginners. It actually takes some knowledge to use it's full potential.

I'm using both manual and TTL flash setups, they all have their purpose.
I find TTL very useful in multi-speedlites setup. But that's the way I work, it might not feel good for you.
 
Sebastian said:
I wouldn't say that TTL will create bland results or is for beginners. It actually takes some knowledge to use it's full potential.

I'm using both manual and TTL flash setups, they all have their purpose.
I find TTL very useful in multi-speedlites setup. But that's the way I work, it might not feel good for you.
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You've made some valid points, perhaps I should explain why I said what I did.

TTL actually takes a lot of knowledge to get the best from it. And it isn't always predicable. Using it to get some kind of acceptable result is easy, using it to get controlled results is less easy, and a lot of people find it quicker as well as better to control the flashes manually, once they've learned how.

Of course, in some rapidly changing situations, it can be better to use TTL.

The other major point about TTL is that it is only currently available with hotshoe flashguns (or with portable flash with very similar power limitations) so, given the inability in most lighting conditions to actually have enough power to control the lighting and overpower the sun if required, even using the flashes manually doesn't always produce markedly better results.

Back to the original question...
In my experience, bright ambient lighting (sunlight) typically needs 600Ws. Less power than that can contribute to the lighting but not really change it. Given that, as Richard correctly pointed out, the only technology that currently works with TTL is IGBT and given that none of the IGBT flashes that we've seen so far actually produce more than about half of the power that we expect from them, it would take a pretty powerful portable flash of around 1200Ws to produce the same amount of power as a Lencarta Safari Li-on or a Profoto Acute B2 AIRs.

So, you would need 1200Ws of stated power. But, according to a gentleman who must be one of the very best electronic engineers working in this field, if not the best, it is impossible to build an IGBT flash of more than 500Ws. Of course he may be wrong, or the situation may change, but I don't think that either scenario is really that likely. And yes, this designer has seen/dissembled the 'powerful' IGBT flashes that are already on the market and that are about to be launched at Photokina...
 
The advantage of IGBT control is not just auto-TTL metering. And given the likely applications for these things, that may turn out to be the least of the benefits, though a benefit it certainly is.

The other upsides of IGBT are potentially very fast flash durations, and also high speed sync. The current problem with both these features though is you only get fast durations at lower power outputs, and HSS also dramatically reduces effective power. But if you had loads more power to start with, these two features would have some major uses. So I'm thinking it's fundamental power that is the stumbling block.

But look at it another way. If you ganged four big hot-shoe guns and put them into something like the Lastolite Quad I linked above, you would have 400-500Ws equivalent power, auto-TTL control, high speed sync with enough power to be really useful, and very fast flash durations, also at good power levels. So I'm thinking, why doesn't some manufacturer simply take four hot-shoes type guns and stick them together as one? With prices like Yongnuo, it needn't be very expensive either.

Edit: crossed post with Garry
 
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If you want to get back to the original question.....no there are no TTL triggers currently available for Quadras.

And as Garry says, what with the state of this business and NDAs, anybody who knows won't say and anybody who says doesn't know.
 
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