Planning my wedding, need photography advice

Million

Million

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Max
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Hi all,
I recently got engaged, and am now planning my wedding day. I'm an amateur photographer and so have a little insight into how things work, but I wouldn't say I know a lot. We of course need a photographer to cover the day, however we, like a lot of people feeling the squeeze, are trying to do this on a tight budget.
I'm wondering a few different things about wedding photography/ers. What I want, is someone to turn up on the day, photograph my fiancee getting ready for an hour or so, the ceremony, speeches, everything up to and including the first dance, then they can go home. Then I want to be provided with all the images to do with what I will. I don't want to pay through the nose for editing and putting together an album - I can do all that myself, and I don't want to pay for the rights to reprint the images as I wish.
Am I being unreasonable? I asked a friend who is a photojournalist about this (his partner does weddings) and he told me that NOBODY will do that for you - is that right? And why not?
Regarding ways to save money, I have a friend who put an advert in a magazine requesting a wedding photographer and stating terms, and had people coming to him, on his terms, to offer him their best price. To me, this makes more sense. It seems the moment the word 'wedding' is involved, prices become inflated beyond all that is reasonable.
Sorry if this came off as a bit of a rant, but it does annoy me. Any advice or input would be much appreciated,
Max
 
Million said:
Then I want to be provided with all the images to do with what I will. I don't want to pay through the nose for editing and putting together an album - I can do all that myself, and I don't want to pay for the rights to reprint the images as I wish.
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I think that you will be extremely lucky to find someone to hand over their
images for you to edit "and do with what you will"

Good luck in your search though.

Mod hat on, I know this is always an emotive subject,
so from the out-set, I'll say "play nice guys" ;)
 
I'm sure you will find someone agreeable to your terms and price (can we have a clue?).

Will they be any good, thats another issue.

Most pros won't want to give you the raw files to process as you see fit. The reason is often that they don't know what you will do to the images and how that impacts upon their reputation. After all you don't know the thinking behind their composing of the images and how they may crop or play with levels to produce the final result.

Similarly you want the rights to print the images, most pros will sell you the right to do this.

So what you want is a budget price for a whole day shoot, with no other opportunity for the photographer to earn additional income.

Be careful what you wish for.


Hows the weater on the West side today, lousy in the East? :)

(polite enough Mr. C?)
 
The devil is in the detail. If you want a disk full of finished JPEG's with printing rights, then you will find plenty of photographers willing to work for you

If you want the raw un-edited RAW files, you wont find many photographers who will accommodate you

There are 2 sides of the coin. On the one hand you want what you want, and on the other the photographer has a reputation and business to maintain

Just to drive that point home... I see the RAW file as "unfinished work" Just like in the film days, I might take a shot and push it, knowing that in the darkroom I was going to do XYZ. I have the same approach with digital Have a look at what I offer - is this what you are looking for? http://www.kingprophoto.com/booking/


In terms of the price, I charge the same for commercial work as I do for a wedding (on a day rate basis). It is just that most people only ever hire a photographer once or twice in their life, so don't really know what rate to expect to pay
 
My guess would be that most wedding togs would have their unique style of photography, which includes the whole process including the finished product.

I'd imagine that if they were only to offer a partial service then they could hand over the RAWs to someone who makes a real mess of the editing (eg goes over the top with loads of "effects" for example) they then get them printed and framed and show their friends their "cool" prints.

The friends say "nice prints" while secretly think "those photos are AWFUL" and make sure they don't use or recommend that photographer.
 
boliston said:
My guess would be that most wedding togs would have their unique style of photography, which includes the whole process including the finished product.

I'd imagine that if they were only to offer a partial service then they could hand over the RAWs to someone who makes a real mess of the editing (eg goes over the top with loads of "effects" for example) they then get them printed and framed and show their friends their "cool" prints.

The friends say "nice prints" while secretly think "those photos are AWFUL" and make sure they don't use or recommend that photographer.
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That pretty much hits it on the head
 
Ok, thanks for the input so far guys. And what of the 'Mr x seeks photographer' advert idea?
 
The advert idea is ok I guess, but remember - you get what you pay for. If you allow your decision-making to be led by a low budget then IMO you are approaching it all wrong.
Find a photographer who's work you like, then start negotiating.
And (apologies, here's where I'll have my little rant) if you think that by taking the jpegs and going to photobox or similar that you can produce anything like the quality of album that a real pro produces then you're living in cloud cuckoo land. Using very specialist software it takes me a full 2 days (15 - 20 hrs) to design an album - and that's with lots of experience and plenty of my own templates. A good wedding album is a joy to behold and will serve as an heirloom to pass down generations - and you want to skimp on it? to save a few quid? how will that look in 20 years time????
That's my rant done. Congratulations on your engagement, have a wonderful wedding, and get someone who takes great pics to document it for you.
Peter
 
Popcorn anyone?

There will always be someone to do it at a price you want to pay, however the question is does their ability and experience meet your expectations?

I fully agree that some wedding tog's charge the earth, but if they are good and can get business at the price they command good luck to 'em.

Not sure you'll get what you're asking for - cheap photo's and hand over all RAW's with no opportunity to get revenue from prints etc.......
 
Cobra said:
I think that you will be extremely lucky to find someone to hand over their
images for you to edit "and do with what you will"
Click to expand...


Every time You sell a disc of images that is exactly what you are doing.
 
Someone out there will be willing to do it I'm sure. If it was me taking on a job like this, I would set a fairly high price to relinquish my copyright, shoot raw+jpg and hand them the images on a disc, unedited without a watermark and politely ask not to be credited. If its a one off job and I was free, then why not?
 
Chris Primadona said:
Someone out there will be willing to do it I'm sure. If it was me taking on a job like this, I would set a fairly high price to relinquish my copyright, shoot raw+jpg and hand them the images on a disc, unedited without a watermark and politely ask not to be credited. If its a one off job and I was free, then why not?
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This would be my approach, plus me taking a disc with the unedited RAW plus JPEG files, just for insurance (you never can be too careful about comeback).
 
Okay, Mr Cobra, I'm trying to be nice :)

Million said:
Hi all,
I recently got engaged, and am now planning my wedding day. I'm an amateur photographer and so have a little insight into how things work,
Click to expand...
Really?

but I wouldn't say I know a lot.
Click to expand...
agreed

We of course need a photographer to cover the day, however we, like a lot of people feeling the squeeze, are trying to do this on a tight budget.
Click to expand...
Understood. Nothing wrong with that

I'm wondering a few different things about wedding photography/ers. What I want, is someone to turn up on the day, photograph my fiancee getting ready for an hour or so, the ceremony, speeches, everything up to and including the first dance, then they can go home.
Click to expand...
So far so good. Estimate of how many hours that will be?

Then I want to be provided with all the images to do with what I will. I don't want to pay through the nose for editing and putting together an album - I can do all that myself, and I don't want to pay for the rights to reprint the images as I wish.
Click to expand...
Now we're into difficult territory. You want me to provide you with unedited files so you can put your interpretation on what you think I was thinking when I took the shot. How're you gonna do that?

Am I being unreasonable?
Click to expand...
Yes

I asked a friend who is a photojournalist about this (his partner does weddings) and he told me that NOBODY will do that for you - is that right?
Click to expand...
No, see below

And why not?
Regarding ways to save money, I have a friend who put an advert in a magazine requesting a wedding photographer and stating terms, and had people coming to him, on his terms, to offer him their best price. To me, this makes more sense. It seems the moment the word 'wedding' is involved, prices become inflated beyond all that is reasonable.
Click to expand...
If I saw an advert like that I'd probably contact the person too. What I wouldn't be doing is offering to do what they want, but offering one of my packages (or a variation on it) for a price.

Sorry if this came off as a bit of a rant, but it does annoy me. Any advice or input would be much appreciated,
Max
Click to expand...
I don't see this as a rant but it does show that you don't understand why wedding photography costs what it does.

Here's my offer to you:
To cover your wedding, including bridal preparation, etc - £30/hour
A CD/DVD with all photos taken during the day (unedited and in both Nikon RAW and large fine jpg formats) copyright free with no restriction as to what you do with the images - £1.00 per image (estimate 800-900 images)

There is one VERY important proviso - you do NOT give me credit for any edited image or tell anyone who the photographer was.

Interested? Give me a pm :)
 
My advice would be to just be very careful on who you pick. I'm sure there's someone who will photograph on your terms and within your budget but you need to have a look at their portfolio to see if they offer the kind of photos you want. I've seen a certain company offer wedding photography at £50 an hour and the photos aren't great but the price maybe right.

My sister had a civil ceremony last year and wanted me to take the photos (!) I, of course, said no way. They went with a photographer who charged around £400 for the day. He used one camera body, one lens and one flashgun from Jessops. The photos were what they were.

Maybe an idea is to try freeindex or photographers.co.uk or another type of wedding photographer-finder service that offers searches based on your budget?
 
When i got married we got a friend who at the time was into photography and had a good camera as in one you could attach lenses too, he did the main group ones and we gave everyone the disposable type to take pictures during the day, to be honest they were the best ones all natural poses and all live in an album in the loft where they have lived for the last 14 years, what im trying to say is dont ruin your day getting into debt just because everyone else seems to spend thousands on a wedding, i was lucky my mother inlaw makes wedding cakes so ours was free, i couldnt believe people spend £800+ on a cake.
 
Million said:
Ok, thanks for the input so far guys. And what of the 'Mr x seeks photographer' advert idea?
Click to expand...

My customers find me because:

- They have been referred to me by other brides and grooms
- I am No1 on google AND they like my work
- I met them at wedding fayre
- social networking
- I met them somewhere else

Thinking about it, that's pretty much how I look for an electrician, mechanic, plasterer, plumber, wedding car person, DJ, Band

If you place an advert, you ignore all of the normal routes, and exclude most of the normal methods of finding a photographer, probably excluding the best photographers

Normally couples
- decide what style of photographer they want
- decide what products they want
- decide a budget
- get a shortlist
- exclude photographers based on personality (we are with you all day)

by being so myopic in your "wishes" you are immediately excluding many personable, talented and creative photographers
 
Lynton said:
with no opportunity to get revenue from prints etc.......
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Lets kick this common misconception to bed...
Very few wedding photographers make money on re-prints nowadays. That isn't the reason why photographers want to retain copyright
 
Richard King said:
Lets kick this common misconception to bed...
Very few wedding photographers make money on re-prints nowadays. That isn't the reason why photographers want to retain copyright
Click to expand...

If you say so. Obviously the "official tog" at the do I was at the other evening who was charging £15 a pop for a 7x5 print wasn't making anything out of it...
 
Lynton said:
If you say so. Obviously the "official tog" at the do I was at the other evening who was charging £15 a pop for a 7x5 print wasn't making anything out of it...
Click to expand...

Fair point, but is this the norm?
 
Like others I think you should shift your focus. Find a photographer who's work you like who fits within your budget.
Then negotiate on an image cd and licence. To be honest if I knew you and trusted your editing I'd give you files to edit. But not knowing you're going to mess up my work is a big issue.

Just because you want something slightly out of the ordinary is no reason to start looking for a photographer the wrong way round.

There are many people who fancy a chance at shooting a wedding who'll do whatever you ask. However I'd be picking someone based on their work and reputation rather than their willingness to work for nowt. The images will need to be of a decent standard to get you a good album.

Would you be happier with substandard images that you hold copyright to, or great images that you can create your own album from?
 
Phil V said:
Would you be happier with substandard images that you hold copyright to, or great images that you can create your own album from?
Click to expand...

:thumbs:

No editing in the world is gonna save very poor images from the off.
 
I was in your position a few months ago, I get married this Saturday so I am probably in a decent position to offer advice.

  • Work out a budget, try to stick to it (ish)
  • I posted in business section on here and got lots of helpful replies and Pms (and also some less helpful ones which resulted in the thread being locked...)
  • We spoke to about 3 different photographers and looked at their work, and chose the one we (she) liked best.
  • We then spoke to him and based on his prices went for LESS coverage. This means we have a good photographer for the important bits (cerimony and formals etc). We accept we will have to wing it on the 1st dance, reception speeches etc
  • We got a watermarked FB images and High res images for print package. Again no bundled prints/album to pay for.

Okay they are pre edited but I doubt I'd want to edit 150-200 images anyway, I hate doing that when it's my own shots, never mind ones some one else took, and could be edited by someone else who's probably better at it.

All in all we got a decent deal, but assuming he does a decent job (and I can afford it which is another matter) I will be ordering some prints/an album from him as he's done me a favour doing less coverage which he could have turned down for a more lucrative offer. So I think it's only fair to top up his earn with a few prints for gran etc.

If I really want I can make my own album with his and other images but will it look very professional? I doubt it, I wouldn't know where to start!

edit: fwiw We did look at normal avenues (adverts, wedding fairs) but generally found most to either be too expensive, we weren't keen on their work or in 1 case just plain rude.
 
Last edited:
gingerjon said:
If he sold 0 prints at £15 he wasn't making anything out of it.

How many did he sell?
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Do you know what? I didn't even ask him. Though I saw seveal people with folders with prints in. It's all a bit of a moot point really isn't it. I was merely suggesting that lots of professional wedding togs (of all abilities) prefer to go down the album and print route as it is more income for them that a DVD of images with copyright.
 
Lynton said:
If you say so. Obviously the "official tog" at the do I was at the other evening who was charging £15 a pop for a 7x5 print wasn't making anything out of it...
Click to expand...

The first print isn't a re-print. If people came back to him 6 months/years later for another copy he could make some money from it, but very unlikely to happen.
If the copyright is released, the images could be used commercially, sold as stock images, derivative works created, and end up being used by your competitors all out of the controll of the original photographer with no comeback.

To the OP; Are any of the guests into photography and bringing cameras that wouldn't mind giving you raw files to edit. Or even lend your kit to a trusted, competent, friend for the day. It would allow the official tog to do their work and have some of uncle Bob's shots to edit yourself.
 
more to the point, when I shoot a wedding, I concentrate on shooting a wedding, not rushing images through a print workflow
 
Hi Max,

I don't have a problem with providing en-edited images to clients if they feel cabable of editing them themselves. In that instance I obviously remove (any!) duffers & make sure the images have an acceptable exposure. I then provide the clients with 16 bit tiffs .

To be honest most people prefer this to fully raw images. They way I see it is that I'M in business to make a living for me & the only sure way of doing that is providing what clients want. Times are changing & we have to move with them. I first studied photography in college in 1984 - no computers then - so my photographic career & techniques have had to continually evolve, just like my business plan!:)

My website is www.arjenkinsphotography.co.uk if you want to look at my work.

Andrew
 
I'd like to say this thread was not intended to provoke anyone, I am not trolling, and I apologise if my ignorance did upset anyone. It's been a lot of food for thought. As I should have known, there was a polarization of opinions - I was simultaneously being told not to be so ridiculous, and being PM'ed by those who wanted to work on those terms.

Regarding info, the wedding is outside Frome (near Bath), in a country house, in April 2012, on a bank holiday. I'm now budgeting £1000 hopefully including an album and a CD of finished images. I think I've given up the idea of working on them myself after having a good think on it, and secondary to the sentiments expressed here.

Thanks TPF users for your opinions and information.
Max
 
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