Photoshop doing my head in!

ben g

ben g

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Please help me with converting images to jpeg for the web. I usually process images in CS2 in AdobeRGB then convert to sRGB before saving to web. However the final jpeg has really washed out/drab colours when seen either on the web or using windows picture & fax viewer.
Even setting CS2 to sRGB in the colour settings and processing in sRGB from RAW conversion right through to save for web still leads to drab colours.
The only partial solution I have found is to boost the saturation by 10-15 and add a slight curve adjustment prior to saving for the web. This brings the resulting jpeg closer to the photoshop version but still not an exact match.
I have found that in the CS2 colour settings there is an option shown by clicking the 'more options' tab which is "desaturate monitor colours by : 20%". selecting this means that what i see matches more closely what i see in web versions (ie. crap colours).
Can anyone offer any help with this as i'm pulling my hair out here!:thinking:
 
In Photoshop CS2, are you not able to simply go to:

File > Save to Web

??
 
theMusicMan said:
In Photoshop CS2, are you not able to simply go to:

File > Save to Web

??
Click to expand...
thats what i do, i work on the image in adobeRGB than convert to sRGB before using the File save to web.
:shrug:
 
Have you tried not converting to sRGB? I don't have any issues with saving as a web image. Can you post some examples please in the gallery and I can have a peek.
 
first image already seen on the forum converted to sRGB then save for web:
DSC_1135.jpg
[/IMG]

second image sat boosted to try and get near to what i see in photoshop:
Druids-circle-1.jpg
[/IMG]
I say near but in photoshop the original tiff the grass doesn't look quite as yellow or bright.
Thanks for looking and trying to help:)
 
not sure why you are using adobe RGB rather than sRGB as it standard for photos and web. What your basically doing is processing image twice adobe RGB uses a narrow band to process colours, if you then convert to sRGB then colour will look muted & dull.

Using sRGB from beginning means your image is processed only once giving the best possible results in sRGB
 
Actually, Adobe RGB has a wider gamut than sRGB which has only become some sort of "standard" due to cheap mass production of cameras and printers, for use by people who can't access or edit their images prior to printing. Oh, and web use as well!

I'm still not fully understanding why you're having a problem to the extent you are. It may be just the subject matter and shades.

I'd certainly convert from AdobeRGB to sRGB then perform your edits. This way you'll be certain your changes/colours will be captured by the sRGB colour space and, therefore, "save for web".

Does your monitor handle the same gamut as your camera/printer/software settings?
 
I chose to use adobeRGB after reading Scott Kelby's photoshop book, who recommended it.
I have switched CS2 to work in sRGB :
Edit>colour settings>working space>sRGB

Even if I open a RAW image in sRGB process in CS2 also in sRGB, when i open the save for web dialog the colours look muted. This is especially apparent in image such as the one above, the greens appear far darker and lacking saturation in save for web.

I have found that if i do:
Edit>colour settings>More Options>Advanced controls, Desaturate monitor colours by, 15%
Then the save for web dialog matches fairly closely the main image in CS2.

Thanks in advance for anyone who can shed light on this, i just want my web images to match CS2!:bonk::)
 
Haven't got CS2 but the result can be the same (and I think the menus are similar .....

Check to see if in "view" that you haven't set proof setup to something other than windowsRGB (assuming you're using Windoze). If you're editing with "proof colours" enabled you will be seeing something different than is being saved to file :(
 
Thanks chuckles, i will check that and report back later:)
 
Provided Chuckles suggestion doesn't work, if you go to "save for web" then once the dialogue box opens:

1. Go to the top right-hand corner of the preview box, there is an arrow in a circle.
2. Click on this & select "Use document colour profile"

That hopefully should sort it out for you :thumbs:
 
i checked in CS2 and under view>proof setup i had working CMYK as the setting. I've looked in this tab and there is a Custom... setting. If i press this it opens a window called "Customize Proof Condition". In this i am able to select under proof conditions:
Device to Simulate: I see an option for Monitor_09_08_2007_2

By choosing this (which is the name of my latest monitor calibration profile done by Macbeth Eye-One LT) changes what i see to match what i have been seeing on the web and in windows picture/fax viewer.
Also in this window is a tick box which is Preserve RGB Numbers. If this is ticked then the colours are muted as i have been having problems with. However if i untick this it then gives me the option of: Rendering intent:Relative colormetric etc. Doing this improves things a lot and gets back to what i was seeing before.

What should I have these settings on?:shrug:

Thanks Moomike I looked in the save for web window and under the tab that you mentioned it was set for Uncompensated Color. Changing this to Use document color profile has certainly helped.

Oldfart I shoot in RAW so i think it shouldn't matter what the camera is set to but i could be wrong?

Lastly Adobe bridge displays colours differently again from all the others! Is this not colour managed the same as Photoshop?

All I want is everthing to match from CS2 to web and hopefully to print. Much easier said than done!:bang:

Thanks again to anyone who can help, I feel I am so close to a solution now I can almost smell it!:)
 
I had this very problem and I simply told PS to convert my images as I loaded them into PS, to sRGB. Then, when I saved them, in whatever way, the colours stayed the same as I saw on the screen as i was processing them. I don't think you need to fiddle too much with the other setting in PS, just tell Photoshop to convert to sRGB as soon as you open an image ;)
 
Thanks Marianne, I think i'm getting there now.

If I convert to sRGB before saving to web with "use document profile" enabled then the resulting jpeg looks like the original TIFF.
But when i look at it in a non-colour managed situation like on the internet then i am back to drab colours. So i have used View>Proof colours>Monitor RGB and then what i see in CS2 looks like the internet. I have than found that boosting the saturation by +20 seems to get it back to fairly close to the original.

Does anybody do anything similar to get web images to match, or is there a better way of doing this?
 
OMG...my head is spinning!! :gag:

I thought my colour problems were due to my screen not being calibrated. Now I have the Huey, things are better, but I had no idea about all these complicated settings/tabs and such like!!

I have RGB (not sRGB) set in camera, because someone, somewhere said that's best and I have it set in CS2 also. I don't change it, and do a save for web before posting here. All my settings in CS2 are on whatever they were when I installed it................should I be fidlling, or is it best to leave well alone??
 
photostar_1 said:
OMG...my head is spinning!! :gag:
Click to expand...

I know how you feel!

Should the image look the same in CS2 when proof viewing in monitor RGB compared to normal??

could somebody please check in their CS2 if the image looks the same or not when proof viewing in monitor RGB.

Thanks for any help, ben:)
 
I may have got a bit confused as to what settings you have set but you dont want the proof settings active unless your proofing the image (no tick next to it in the drop down menu).

If you have your monitor profile set so your system uses it as default (not photoshop) you shouldnt see any problems when converting to sRGB and saving for the web, when this is viewed on your monitor their should be no change.

Only use the proof when you want to see how your file will be output.

ie on diffrent printers/proofers and diffrent paper etc.
 
Thanks mho.
Just to recap; my monitor is calibrated using an eye1LT and the resulting profile is stored in my display settings as default.
i process an image using sRGB as working space & document colour space. I save for web with use document profile (for colour) enabled.
When i look at the image in firefox or windows picture/fax viewer the colours look different to CS2.
If i use the proof settings in CS2 and set them to monitor RGB, therefore tick next to proof settings active after doing this. The view of colours then matches what i have been seeing on the internet etc.

Is this normal?? should i see a difference between what i see in CS2 and the internet? :shrug::help:
 
ben g said:
Thanks mho.
Just to recap; my monitor is calibrated using an eye1LT and the resulting profile is stored in my display settings as default.
i process an image using sRGB as working space & document colour space. I save for web with use document profile (for colour) enabled.
When i look at the image in firefox or windows picture/fax viewer the colours look different to CS2.
If i use the proof settings in CS2 and set them to monitor RGB, therefore tick next to proof settings active after doing this. The view of colours then matches what i have been seeing on the internet etc.

Is this normal?? should i see a difference between what i see in CS2 and the internet? :shrug::help:
Click to expand...

Is your CS colour settings set something like this

profiles.jpg


Where mine says Dcam 3 you will have sRGB ?.

When I save an image for web I "convert to profile" and use sRGB, this is embedded when saving, I dont use save for web.

I dont see why you should have to proof to see web images in the correct colour unless you dont have the correct profile in the image.
 
mho said:
Is your CS colour settings set something like this

profiles.jpg


Where mine says Dcam 3 you will have sRGB ?.

When I save an image for web I "convert to profile" and use sRGB, this is embedded when saving, I dont use save for web.

I dont see why you should have to proof to see web images in the correct colour unless you dont have the correct profile in the image.
Click to expand...



:'(:'(:exit::bonk::bang::cuckoo:

I just love this place!!! :lol:
 
Yes mine has sRGB at the top of the colour settings. is your Dcam 3 your calibrated monitor profile?

thanks, ben:)
 
ben g said:
Yes mine has sRGB at the top of the colour settings. is your Dcam 3 your calibrated monitor profile?

thanks, ben:)
Click to expand...

No its a special colour space designed by Joseph Holmes

Ben

When you have edited your picture you want to use on the web try this to see what happens to te colours.

make the image your desired size in photoshop.
the goto "Edit" then "Convert to profile" when converted save to jpg and embed profile.

upload it and view it to see what happens.
 
Thats what i have been doing. converted to sRGB then saved as jpeg after resizing either with save for web or 'save as' after changing to 8bit. When i look at the image in firefox or windows picture and fax viewer the colours look desaturated.
I guess this is because these applications are not colour managed.
My aim is to create a website and i want to make sure that the images look as close as possible to how they look in CS2.
As i mentioned before if i select monitor RGB in the proof settings then i can simulate how they look on the web (on my computer). Maybe I should just select Proof monitor RGB, make saturation adjustments then save these for use on the web?
 
ben g said:
Thats what i have been doing. converted to sRGB then saved as jpeg after resizing either with save for web or 'save as' after changing to 8bit. When i look at the image in firefox or windows picture and fax viewer the colours look desaturated.
I guess this is because these applications are not colour managed.
My aim is to create a website and i want to make sure that the images look as close as possible to how they look in CS2.
As i mentioned before if i select monitor RGB in the proof settings then i can simulate how they look on the web (on my computer). Maybe I should just select Proof monitor RGB, make saturation adjustments then save these for use on the web?
Click to expand...

I would say you definatly have a problem I have never had to do this and I upload to the web etc. and have never had a problem like this.

Ahh just a thought, Have you stopped Adobe Gamma loading on startup ?. (As i think you said your running windows) as I think that will push out the monitor profile you created, and using the Adobe Gamma as the monitor profile.
 
mho said:
Have you stopped Adobe Gamma loading on startup ?. (As i think you said your running windows) as I think that will push out the monitor profile you created, and using the Adobe Gamma as the monitor profile.
Click to expand...

How do i stop adobe gamma loading at start up? When i look at my display settings my calibrated profile is listed as default. Interestingly when i click on the advanced settings tab of display settings and open the advanced display settings window, the display brightness and colours change slightly. This change then persists until next time i restart the computer.

Thanks for your help, ben:)
 
Ben I'm a MAC user but have a look in your start up folder I think its on the list you get to from the start tab at the bottom of the screen, find adobe gamma, and just move it out of the start up folder to your desktop and restart your PC, and see whats happened, if its worked when you look at the web images you created they should be as they were when you had to look at them in the proof tab.
 
Thanks for your help so far mho
I think i found adobe gamma: start>all programs>start up> short cut to adobe gamma loader
I moved this short cut + the loader itself (which was in C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Calibration\) onto the desk top.

This has not made any difference to what happens at start up. After the windows welcome screen my desktop displays, after a couple of seconds the appearance of the desktop changes to what i presume are my calibrated profile settings.

As i mentioned before if i open the display settings window my screen appearance changes back to what i think is its default (see screen capture below).
desktop-post-change.jpg
[/IMG]
After the screen has changed it doesn't revert back to what i think is the calibrated profile until i restart the computer again.

My last question (i hope!) is:
Is it normal to see a change in CS2 when you view an image in proof colours>monitor RGB?

Thanks again for your help, Ben:)
 
ben g said:
Thanks for your help so far mho
I think i found adobe gamma: start>all programs>start up> short cut to adobe gamma loader
I moved this short cut + the loader itself (which was in C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Calibration\) onto the desk top.

This has not made any difference to what happens at start up. After the windows welcome screen my desktop displays, after a couple of seconds the appearance of the desktop changes to what i presume are my calibrated profile settings.

As i mentioned before if i open the display settings window my screen appearance changes back to what i think is its default (see screen capture below).
desktop-post-change.jpg
[/IMG]
After the screen has changed it doesn't revert back to what i think is the calibrated profile until i restart the computer again.

My last question (i hope!) is:
Is it normal to see a change in CS2 when you view an image in proof colours>monitor RGB?

Thanks again for your help, Ben:)
Click to expand...

It sounds like its loading the proper monitor profile after those few seconds, which is good.

When you goto proof colours - monitor RGB you are not proofing against your custom profile for your monitor but a generic profile.

To proof properly select custom then your built profile, deselect preserve RGB numbers, select your rendering intent.That should give you the same as you see onscreen, mabe you will see a little less gamma.

Are you running multiple monitors on this system ?.
 
mho said:
When you goto proof colours - monitor RGB you are not proofing against your custom profile for your monitor but a generic profile.

To proof properly select custom then your built profile, deselect preserve RGB numbers, select your rendering intent.That should give you the same as you see onscreen, mabe you will see a little less gamma.

Are you running multiple monitors on this system ?.
Click to expand...

When I select custom and my built profile I only get the same colours, that i see on the web & in windows picture & fax viewer, if i select preserve RGB numbers

Incidentally I looked at my web images on a computer(non calibrated) at work last night and they looked pretty much ok.

I guess that its just that images on the web look drab etc. only on my computer as firefox etc. dont use the same colour management as CS2. Makes me wonder though how people will see my images on their computer.

Thanks for your help, ben:)
 
:thinking: Well I can spend ages in CS2 getting the colours how I want them to be, then if I look at the very same photo in the Windows Fax Viewer, the colours must be at least 20% more saturated and false looking........ Why isn't life simple? I then need to fiddle with the printer settings and decrease the yellow and magenta output before I print so that the picture comes off acceptable.
 
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