Photographing Under-18's

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Arkady

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There may be some confusion on this issue, so pin your ears back and take note.
Here is all the relevant information you need to know. Ignore this at your peril.

The Human Rights Act 1998
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1998/19980042.htm

Data Protection Act 1998
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1998/19980029.htm

The protection of Children Act 1978
http://www.geocities.com/pca_1978/reference/pca_1978amSOA.html

"Additional care must betaken with under 18's because parental or guardian consent is required whether or not a child or young person agrees to be photographed or filmed..."
 
:eek: You got a copy in PLAIN ENGLISH, ie for people like me who have not got a clue what all thats about.
 
Nope... Just print it off and spend an evening with it with a good CD on - that's what I did.
We also have a Service policy note on this, but I can't share that outside the MoD I'm afraid.

If there's major interest, I'll gen-up a non-Mil version in Plain-Speak over the weekend.
 
I'll have to get my itunes library on the case then, cause i think this might take some time.:thinking:
 
I emailed a local archery club recently asking if it would be okay to take some shots during a practice session (held in a public park). The reply was yes but that I couldn't take any shots of the junior members. Now given that it was in a public place I have every legal right to do so. Of course I understand why the club said this although I don't really understand what they are afraid of, teens wrapped up against the weather practising archery would be an extemely niche market wouldn't it?

I can't fail to notice the irony that the night before their practice session the local carnival took place with hundreds of people taking photos of the event which includes very young majorettes. One local newspaper has even posted a video of the event on its website.

On a nature forum a wildlife tog at a nature reserve was shooting birds out on a lake. He had a long lens set up on a tripod pointing out over the water. The rangers turned up and gave him a hard time after complaints from a family having a picnic.

What none of these people seem to realise is that it's not the tog with the DSLR and long lens they need to worry about but the un-noticed person using a P&S with a mega zoom.

The world has gone mad...
 
pxl8 said:
What none of these people seem to realise is that it's not the tog with the DSLR and long lens they need to worry about but the un-noticed person using a P&S with a mega zoom.

The world has gone mad...
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Agrees with the above.
 
When i went to an open day at my kids school i had to get permission to photograph cause i had a DSLR. Everyone else who had their pocket cams and mobile phone cams were allowed to snap away. :bang:
 
brummie said:
When i went to an open day at my kids school i had to get permission to photograph cause i had a DSLR. Everyone else who had their pocket cams and mobile phone cams were allowed to snap away. :bang:
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Yep, my daughter's nativity play a couple of years back didn't allow digital photography - only film and video :cuckoo:
 
my wife is the head of centre at a nursery and any adult wishing to photograph a navity play or sports etc has to have written permission from the council!
 
pandabighead said:
my wife is the head of centre at a nursery and any adult wishing to photograph a navity play or sports etc has to have written permission from the council!
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The obvious comment is get the children to take the photos then!

Seriously, I have to wonder what the council hopes to achieve but granting permission. Let's assume they give permission to 30 people to take photos and a year later some of the photos turn up somewhere dodgy. What then? Do all 30 get taken down the nick for questioning?

It strikes me that a lot of this permission/denial is purely about being seen to be doing something rather than making any real difference.
 
pxl8 said:
Now given that it was in a public place I have every legal right to do so.
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No you don't - not under new legislation. Seriously. You need parental/guardian's permission.
If you do a Sports day at your kids school, you need permission from the Headmaster - he/she may say no because they would have to get prior parental approval on every kid in the school. Some schools just can't be bothered sending out the letters this would involve - and if one single parent objects, then you couldn't photograph any of them in a group shot.
 
Wonder how they can hope to enforce this - I realize most of the peeps here with a truck load of camera gear will be prime targets, but what about the other 90%+ with their camera phones, I bet they dont enforce it equally :(
 
It mostly applies to Professionals, but if someone sees you taking pix and gets a strop on and you don't have the paperwork (and yes, I do mean 'Paper'-work - hard copies of everything), you'll be screwed, legally.

I now have to take Model Release form with me in case I need to photograph kiddy refugees in Iraq/Afghanistan/Lebanon.
Our other photographer had to bin a lot of the stuff from the recent Lebanon NEO because thay had kids in the photos. MoD is taking no chances with this.
 
Arkady said:
I now have to take Model Release form with me in case I need to photograph kiddy refugees in Iraq/Afghanistan/Lebanon.
Our other photographer had to bin a lot of the stuff from the recent Lebanon NEO because thay had kids in the photos. MoD is taking no chances with this.
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Your having a laugh!! Sorry but that is just bloody stupid.
 
Early days still - I reckon it's calm down once people get thier heads around the legislation properly.
 
Arkady said:
It mostly applies to Professionals, but if someone sees you taking pix and gets a strop on and you don't have the paperwork (and yes, I do mean 'Paper'-work - hard copies of everything), you'll be screwed, legally.
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AIUI the law concerns permission for commercial work and u18's can't given permission, it has to be parent/guardian.

A law that says ANYONE is offending by taking a photograph in a public place will be completely pointless and never enforced. If it is being enforced then I'm going to spend the next 20 years taking various public bodies to court for photographing my children with CCTV.

And whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
 
pxl8 said:
AIUI the law concerns permission for commercial work and u18's can't given permission, it has to be parent/guardian.
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Any thoughts on how this would affect event photography? I'd say at least 80% of the shots I take now are of people under 18 with a view to selling.
 
dod said:
Any thoughts on how this would affect event photography? I'd say at least 80% of the shots I take now are of people under 18 with a view to selling.
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Permission would be needed but how it's gained could vary. It might be that the parental permission is needed for the u18 to enter the race, in which case that agreement might include permission for photographs to be taken. If you then have permission to photograph the event it could be that you also get the permission for the u18s. In other words it depends...

Also the use of the shots is important, editorial is exempt as is artistic.
 
Arkady - could you confirm the Act and the section of the act where this new legislation appears? If I can get confirmation of that my other half says he'll check it out. He's certainly not aware of any changes at the moment.

I'm interested to know, myself, because it could impact on our mascot pics at Speedway.
 
So, I have a yes/no question...

As a private individual, in a public place, taking photos for artistic, non-commercial purposes (mainly the photoblog on my website) do I need to get permission from parents if I take a photo of someone who's under 18?

What if the parents are at home and the kid's out on his/her own?

Here are some real-world examples of photos of under-18s from my blog where I never asked for (and still don't have) permission:


 
I's say no you don't. When people are in public they're in the public domain - that's the attitude I've always taken.

As soon as you're on private property, e.g. a school premises, then it's a whole different ball game, or an organised event in say a public park. Then they can set whatever rules and conditions they like.
 
Cheers for that Nath, you just made me throw up on my keyboard - that is one of the most disturbing things I have ever seen :gag:
 
ROFL sorry. Surely you cant be serious though? I thought it was hilarious..
 
Was just kidding mate - although I know a guy that looks the spitting image of that guy & won't be able to look at him without laughing :D :p
 
moomike said:
Was just kidding mate - although I know a guy that looks the spitting image of that guy & won't be able to look at him without laughing :D :p
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Haha, is his name Santa by any chance? :lol: :lol:
 
As far as the Human Rights Act (or criminals charter) goes it only applies to public organisations, such as the police, government or local council. A private individual or company can't breach another's human rights, ie the right to privacy.

However it could be argued that any legislation bought in that restricts our interests as photographers could breach our human rights. Such as the right to freedom of expression (article 10).

With out a doubt the ECHR (European Convention of Human Rights) has been the most damaging piece of legislation the government has introduced. It is only of any benefit to criminals and terrorists. I am sure the introduction of the act had nothing to do with Cherie Blair being a human rights lawyer?
 
The Data Protection Act does not prevent parents from taking photographs of children at a school nativity play for example. The Information Commissioner, who is responsible for dealing with disputes involving the DPA and the Freedom of Information Act, issued guidelines on this aspect last December: http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/docume...ess_release_photography_in_schools_dec_05.pdf. More info here http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/docume...list_guides/taking_photographs_in_schools.pdf but of course there has been challenges to even the ICO's interperatation. [Search results on the ICO site: http://www.ico.gov.uk/global/search_results.aspx?search=photos].

My office works with aspects of the Data Protection and Freedom of Information Act on a daily basis and like any statute, they are open to different interpertations based on the motivation of those who are utilising it. A simple read through of the various Acts isn't sufficient otherwise there would be no need for lawyers!
 
With regard to Jamie's (fingerz) question. As I said you should carry on doing what you're doing Jamie IMHO. If you're challenged with regards to pictures of children by a parent, or anyone with reasonable concerns, then point them towards your blog to show the nature of your images. Emphasise that the children aren't identified in the shots in any way.

If a parent really objects strongly then I think you have to respect that, delete the photo, and get on with the next shot, but don't stop doing what you're doing. ;)
 
fingerz said:
So, I have a yes/no question...

As a private individual, in a public place, taking photos for artistic, non-commercial purposes (mainly the photoblog on my website) do I need to get permission from parents if I take a photo of someone who's under 18?

What if the parents are at home and the kid's out on his/her own?

Here are some real-world examples of photos of under-18s from my blog where I never asked for (and still don't have) permission:


Click to expand...


As it stands, I'd say yes - because you are publishing them, even if it's on a blog.
They are recognisable individuals and as under-18's do not have the legal right to give you permission to photograph them - only the parent/guardian does.
 
This is why I'm curious to know what the new legislation is though - as things have stood until now, you've not needed to ask a person's permission before photographing them, asking permission would have simply been a courtesy thing which some photographers felt more comnfortable with.
 
Arkady said:
As it stands, I'd say yes - because you are publishing them, even if it's on a blog.
They are recognisable individuals and as under-18's do not have the legal right to give you permission to photograph them - only the parent/guardian does.
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I would disagree if you are referring to the DPA, see here for an explanation:

http://www.sirimo.co.uk/ukpr.php/2004/11/19/uk_photographers_rights_guide#c53

But as Witch asked, if the laws have been changed recently can you provide links to the updates please...
 
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