Petrol prices rigged for a decade

DorsetDude

DorsetDude

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Anyone catch the news about raids by anti-trust regulators on 3 of the big petrol suppliers rigging prices for more than a decade?

Wont surprise me one bit if its true. What will surprise me is if this stays in the new more than 2 minutes or quietly disappears as the backhanders are passed round and we get the same announcement that office of fair trading gave months back "Its all tickety boo, no need to worry chaps"

If it didnt and was found true and prices were then lowered it could be just what the economy needs. Wonder if they'll give us all the money back we've been ripped off by for the last 10 years?

I wonder if British Gas, NPower et al are next on the anti-trust investigators list?
 
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Well, seeing as the government cream something like 75% of the fuel costs, they will keep quiet, its better for them to have fuel at £1.50 a litre than £1 a litre!
 
considering how much duty we pay on petrol I can't see the government doing anything, if there is actually naughty going on.
 
Government and oil companies are both responsible. Cap fuel costs at £1 a litre for the next 5 years. Make both suffer. If anything I think fuel revenues and the benefit to the wider economy from doing so would more than pay back any money that could have been taken.

The more wider point is that as a citizen it is impossible to trust government, banks, corporations or any 70s entertainer. Is there any group left that is actually honest?
 
"Tory MP Robert Halfon said drivers were being taken for an "expensive ride"."

Pot, kettle, and black. :|
 
The thing about this investigation though is that its the EU, not our governement. So "if" they find something, then our corrupt lot will have no way to wriggle out so easily.
We are being ripped off, ergo drop the bloody price. Where to recoup the tax lost from that is their problem not mine.
 
To have an outfit that has not produced certified annual accounts for almost 20 years investigate multi-national companies allegedly suspected of price rigging is a bit rich. "Set a thief to catch a thief". Could that be the move.

Forecast:- An investigation will be carried out and nothing untoward of any signifcance will be found. Make of that what you will.
 
arclight said:
Forecast:- An investigation will be carried out and nothing untoward of any signifcance will be found. Make of that what you will.
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Yep, exactly what Im expecting. Just like the OFT "investigation"
 
People seem surprised by this seeing as pretty much every company in the oil industry reports record profits every year.

Seeing as the Government have rigged the price of fuel for far longer by creaming off 75-80% the reaming 20 no matter how rigged would have had little impact on the overall cost.
 
DorsetDude said:
The thing about this investigation though is that its the EU, not our governement. So "if" they find something, then our corrupt lot will have no way to wriggle out so easily.
We are being ripped off, ergo drop the bloody price. Where to recoup the tax lost from that is their problem not mine.
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Oh yes. The eu are not corrupt at all.

Much as I despise many current and ex government people, we are far more honest than most in Europe.
 
unplugged said:
People seem surprised by this seeing as pretty much every company in the oil industry reports record profits every year.
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Im not in the least surprised by it. What will surprise me is if anything actually happens to stop the *******s doing it.

Seeing as the Government have rigged the price of fuel for far longer by creaming off 75-80% the reaming 20 no matter how rigged would have had little impact on the overall cost.
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Every little helps.
 
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So if they are found guilty of price fixing and get forced to cut the cost of fuel by however much for however long the government will just turn to something else to tax to make the money they are missing out on.

There's massive 'no smoking' campaigns carried out on behalf of the government every year, but they are making multiple millions out of the tobacco industry. If everybody stopped smoking the government would have to find an alternative way to screw the country. It's all swings and roundabouts which always seem to stop in their favour anyway.
 
modchild said:
So if they are found guilty of price fixing and get forced to cut the cost of fuel by however much for however long the government will just turn to something else to tax to make the money they are missing out on.

There's massive 'no smoking' campaigns carried out on behalf of the government every year, but they are making multiple millions out of the tobacco industry. If everybody stopped smoking the government would have to find an alternative way to screw the country. It's all swings and roundabouts which always seem to stop in their favour anyway.
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With fear of taking this on a tangent, some reports suggest that smoking creates a huge net cost to the economy:

[QOUTE]Smoking is the single, largest preventable cause of serious ill health and kills tens of thousands of people in England every year. It is a popular myth that smoking is a net contributor to the economy – our research finds that every single cigarette smoked costs the country 6.5 pence. In order to balance income and costs, tobacco duty should be progressively increased until the full societal cost of smoking is met through taxation.[/QOUTE]

http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/pu...balancing-tobacco-income-and-costs-in-society

In that regard I think there's limited comparisons between smoking and fuel taxes, given the relative costs that each creates.
 
modchild said:
So if they are found guilty of price fixing and get forced to cut the cost of fuel by however much for however long the government will just turn to something else to tax to make the money they are missing out on.

There's massive 'no smoking' campaigns carried out on behalf of the government every year, but they are making multiple millions out of the tobacco industry. If everybody stopped smoking the government would have to find an alternative way to screw the country. It's all swings and roundabouts which always seem to stop in their favour anyway.
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So because the government need the tax revenue we should just let multinational corporations get away with rigging fuel prices*?
I dont think so.

(* if they're found guilty, which of course they won't be)
 
cambsno said:
Well the eu is corrupt, just look at the scandals in countries like Italy.
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So are you saying the EU is corrupt or Italy? Are you saying that scandals don't happen in the UK? Wasn't Chris Huhne released a couple of days ago after perverting the course of justice? Or are corrupt British politicians somehow "far more honest" than corrupt foreign politicians?
 
Can we stop with the politician stuff before the thread gets locked? Thanks.
 
DorsetDude said:
Can we stop with the politician stuff before the thread gets locked? Thanks.
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What he said ;)
This is / could be an interesting discussion,
so lets not get all political.
Thanks guys :thumbs:
 
Cobra said:
What he said ;)
This is / could be an interesting discussion,
so lets not get all political.
Thanks guys :thumbs:
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V true but all life is political. It essentially is "decision making".

It is all too easy to fall into fixating on a favourite issue [eg Canon is better than Nikon]

As moderator you play a balancing game. When to close a thread or not?

Get it wrong - You are a politician

Get it right - you are a statesman

Rather you than I in this forum - bit of a bearpit at times!!!

Steve
 
Alright, I behave...

Although this is a political thing - successive governments have been protiteering on this activity if true. Of course, they cant pay it back, all they would do is then whack a tax on something else.

Of course prices have been rigged - it makes sense! If you were one of 3 togs in say the Isle of Wight, where you had no real competition, wouldnt you have a word with the other 2 and all agreed not to carve the prices up??
 
Hugh Jarse said:
As moderator you play a balancing game. When to close a thread or not?

Get it wrong - You are a politician

Get it right - you are a statesman

Rather you than I in this forum - bit of a bearpit at times!!!

Steve
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Couldn't have put it better myself ;)
 
This is political, in the sense that everything is political - but it isn't party political, because every party that has ever been in power has taxed fuel in a similar way.

Back to the point. Fuel is an obvious cartel, it isn't in the interests of any oil Company to undercut their competitors, the last thing that any of them want is a price war. If any one Company did try to compete on price then the others would turn on them and put them out of business, just as other, smaller Companies will attack any competitor that threatens them. When money talks, merit walks.

If an investigation has found that there has been price fixing, then more fool the oil Companies for leaving evidence to be found - these things are normally decided over lunch or with an unrecorded phone call.

What will this bombshell piece of news achieve? Nothing at all.
 
I don't think it matters what the investigation finds. Lets face it all we really care about is the price per litre.
And thats where (and I am sorry Politics have to be mentioned), the chancellor, no matter what colour he follows, plays a part.
At the moment, the price of fuel charged by the oil companies is high. Therefore HMG can brag that they have no oiked up the duty. The reality is they don't need to. the high price means they get more income because the duty in VAT terms in percentage based.
If the retail price goes down, guess what...HMG will be along to put duty up to cover the shortfall in their books. Whatever's found we will not win.
 
Garry Edwards said:
This is political, in the sense that everything is political - but it isn't party political, because every party that has ever been in power has taxed fuel in a similar way.

Back to the point. Fuel is an obvious cartel, it isn't in the interests of any oil Company to undercut their competitors, the last thing that any of them want is a price war. If any one Company did try to compete on price then the others would turn on them and put them out of business, just as other, smaller Companies will attack any competitor that threatens them. When money talks, merit walks.

If an investigation has found that there has been price fixing, then more fool the oil Companies for leaving evidence to be found - these things are normally decided over lunch or with an unrecorded phone call.

What will this bombshell piece of news achieve? Nothing at all.
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Absolutely correct - and if wrongdoing is found then some dolt will impose financial penalties on the companies. Guess what, the cost of paying those will be passed on to the consumer.
 
And now, my own light hearted take on it.

As the pledge to reduce the cost of fuel continue to fall onto deaf ears . . .

No350-Aliens_zps284e9a40.jpg
 
Spuff said:
There is a corruption index to back it up. Italy doesn't fare too well. On the bright side Spain is less corrupt than North Korea and Somalia!

So I'd say Cambsno's assertion was pretty correct.
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It seems to be based around on what people think rather than any metric for assessing actual corruption.
 
What surprised me as a biker, is how many fuel soils I still see. People complain about the cost of fuel yet overfill their people carriers and spill it for 3 miles up the road.
In essence the rising fuel costs just make you think twice before jumping in your car.
On a negative side travelling around our beautiful country is now so expensive. Don't really go to watch the bike racing anymore due to cost.
But it is what it is.........

Finally the wife and me work at the same place 14 miles away, I work shifts, she works days, we spend £240 a month on getting to work and back......

Maybe a tax relief for fuel used for work might be the way ahead.....
 
cambsno said:
Well, seeing as the government cream something like 75% of the fuel costs, they will keep quiet, its better for them to have fuel at £1.50 a litre than £1 a litre!
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Fuel duty is per litre not a %, so the actual price of fuel doesn't make a huge difference to the government....
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Fuel duty is per litre not a %, so the actual price of fuel doesn't make a huge difference to the government....
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Remember that VAT is added and the dearer the fuel the more the exchequer reaps.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Fuel duty is per litre not a %, so the actual price of fuel doesn't make a huge difference to the government....
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You forgot VAT, on top of wholesale, on top of duty.

Gr8Shot said:
Maybe a tax relief for fuel used for work might be the way ahead.....
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Nope, only a reduction in fuel price will work in any way.

People keep forgetting, what delivers all the goods we buy? wagons.
If they have a 400 litre tank (seen some larger ones up to 800) and average 8>12 MPG depending on load and trailer just think how that cost adds up onto a pint of milk, a loaf of bread, the cost of delivering fuel to a fuel station.

And having shifted said goods its surprising how many trips an individual item makes including production before reaching the consumer.

Also regards tax revenues, there has been a sharp drop in tax revenue raised from fuel literally like for like since the prices first started shooting up from the 80p a litre some 5 years back.

So the "we need the tax" statement is null and void on that part alone.

What I find really disgusting though, is that the government retrospectively changed law to get out of a court order to pay out millions yet will not do the same for the oil companies should they be found guilty.

We are supposed to be broke correct? so why are they not milking obvious easy cash cows.

Answers on a postcard please.
 
I always wonder that when long term fraud being committed by regulated companies/industries is uncovered, surely the regulators should be getting a kicking also.
 
arclight said:
Remember that VAT is added and the dearer the fuel the more the exchequer reaps.
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I remembered the VAT, but that's a small amount compared to the duty.

Not suggesting the price fixing isn't a bad thing, just don't think there's going to be any government conspiracy to brush it under the carpet is all.
 
Hands up if you think we'll hear anything more about this investigation?

Anyone? No?

Hands up if you think we'll still be paying £1.38, or more likely, £1.50 or more for fuel this time next year?

Whoa! Not all at once!
 
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