Paper negatives

Barney

Barney

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can these be enlarged?

Whats the process
 
Thanks Kevin, I had it in my head that the enlarger would have to shine through the paper like a transparent negative, I am clueless about enlarging and printing from a negative so hopefully it will not be too steep a learning curve.

That has reassured me that paper negatives for the pinhole will be good. (y)
 
IIRC, you're going for a 5x4 or 10x8 camera as a pinhole, in which case I'd stick with contact printing.
 
Thanks Nod
 
Having said that, enlarging can be relatively easy IF you can scan the original paper neg, reverse it then resize as necessary. Getting cast free prints out of an inkjet can be more of a problem (although printers that use greys rather than colours to deal with mid tones manage quite well!)
 
I have managed to snag some old 10x8 paper

Should I make a 10x8 pinhole camera or cut the sheets in half and make a 5x4 camera
 
Up to you. You get four times more in 4x5 though, The 10x8 would be cut into quarters not halves otherwise you'd have 10x4 or 8x5 - might be a fun experiment in those sizes.

Whichever size you try I'd test the paper first to ensure it's not fogged.
 
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auntiemaryscanary said:
Up to you. You get four times more in 4x5 though, The 10x8 would be cut into quarters not halves otherwise you'd have 10x4 or 8x5 - might be a fun experiment in those sizes.

Whichever size you try I'd test the paper first to ensure it's not fogged.
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10x4 sounds like a nice format to me, a bit like 17x6 only bigger.
 
auntiemaryscanary said:
Up to you. You get four times more in 4x5 though, The 10x8 would be cut into quarters not halves otherwise you'd have 10x4 or 8x5 - might be a fun experiment in those sizes.

Whichever size you try I'd test the paper first to ensure it's not fogged.
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Thank you for helping me understand the maths, :) I cant see me ever taking 400 5x4 images really, and one at a time, good grief, I will have to conjur up some kind of paper holder so I can take a couple of shots at least.
 
zx9 said:
10x4 sounds like a nice format to me, a bit like 17x6 only bigger.
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I think target acquisition would be a problem on a narrow paper strip, particularly after drinking, everything would be down hill and of the sky. I might put 4x32 scope on the top to act as some kind of viewfinder.

!0x 8 might give a better chance of at least getting something in the frame
 
auntiemaryscanary said:
Up to you. You get four times more in 4x5 though, The 10x8 would be cut into quarters not halves otherwise you'd have 10x4 or 8x5 - might be a fun experiment in those sizes.

Whichever size you try I'd test the paper first to ensure it's not fogged.
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how do I test for that AMC?

Will fogging make it not work or add a bit of character, i will not be able to test until next year at which point my chance of return will probably be zero.
 
Barney said:
how do I test for that AMC?

Will fogging make it not work or add a bit of character, i will not be able to test until next year at which point my chance of return will probably be zero.
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Cut an unexposed strip of the paper and then develop and fix. If it's white it's all good which you can use in a pinhole camera OR use as standard enlarging paper. If it's grey then it's fogged. Only you can decide if the level of grey adds "a bit of character".

Barney said:
Thank you for helping me understand the maths, :) I cant see me ever taking 400 5x4 images really, and one at a time, good grief, I will have to conjur up some kind of paper holder so I can take a couple of shots at least.
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Don't forget the number of available sheets will be reduced by half (or likely more). You'll need one for the paper negative and a second for the contact print to get a positive - or third, fourth etc as you'll need to get the contact print exposure correct. Doing all this the number of available sheets will rapidly decrease. You are already down to 99 full sheets after the fogging test! Don't expect to get a perfect shot on every pinhole taken.

No idea what sort of pinhole camera you are intending to use but why not build a simple cardboard box pinholes in both 10x8 and 4x5?

I've found that in 4x5 it's easy to swap sheets in a dark bag whilst on location. Couldn't comment on 10x8 as I've never taken pinholes in that size.

My paper holder was blue tack!
 
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The fogging test can be done on a very small slice of the paper but I'd be tempted to cut a 1" strip off all edges of the top sheet and develop that.
The top sheet, specifically the edges, is the most likely area to suffer from accidental slight exposure in storage and just an inch off every edge still leaves an 8" x 6" sheet to play with (printing test strips etc..)
 
It seems to be forgotten now, but special enlargers were made for paper negatives that worked by reflection. Like epidiascopes. It got over the problem of the paper fibers showing as textured grain . I had the chance to use one in the late 40's in in a local studio in Fishguard Wales. He. Also had a specialised contact printer for making prints from Kodak cirkut panoramic film used for huge group shots. It had slots to take layers of tissue paper to even up the exposures end to end.

One advantage of using paper negatives for portraits was that they were very easy to pencil retouch compared to film or plates but we're very slow but not as slow as bromide paper is today. As it was made for camera use.
 
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auntiemaryscanary said:
Cut an unexposed strip of the paper and then develop and fix. If it's white it's all good which you can use in a pinhole camera OR use as standard enlarging paper. If it's grey then it's fogged. Only you can decide if the level of grey adds "a bit of character".


Don't forget the number of available sheets will be reduced by half (or likely more). You'll need one for the paper negative and a second for the contact print to get a positive - or third, fourth etc as you'll need to get the contact print exposure correct. Doing all this the number of available sheets will rapidly decrease. You are already down to 99 full sheets after the fogging test! Don't expect to get a perfect shot on every pinhole taken.

No idea what sort of pinhole camera you are intending to use but why not build a simple cardboard box pinholes in both 10x8 and 4x5?

I've found that in 4x5 it's easy to swap sheets in a dark bag whilst on location. Couldn't comment on 10x8 as I've never taken pinholes in that size.

My paper holder was blue tack!
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I am starting to get confused, if I take the picture on paper and then develop it is that the picture or a negative? Also, do I use the same chemicals as my developers for film to do the test strips on the paper, I have not a clue what a contact print is or how you do one.
where do you put the pieces of paper afterwards do you not just leave them in the box?

I think I will make both, sadly its not in my nature to do simple, I make everything hard work for myself, I was thinking two part small plywood boxes, that slide over each other about a foot long. inserts to mount on a tripod and some kind of film holder at the back, I have a few old wooden film holders I will have a look I think and build a simple camera around those, half plate if I recall, will have to check.


The maths seems to be the easy part. :)
 
Nod said:
The fogging test can be done on a very small slice of the paper but I'd be tempted to cut a 1" strip off all edges of the top sheet and develop that.
The top sheet, specifically the edges, is the most likely area to suffer from accidental slight exposure in storage and just an inch off every edge still leaves an 8" x 6" sheet to play with (printing test strips etc..)
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I think One box is completely un opened and the other has some used up. The top sheet only of the opened box?

Not to bothered about losing one sheet should I just chuck it and start with the second sheet in the box?
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
It seems to be forgotten now, but special enlargers were made for paper negatives that worked by reflection. Like epidiascopes. It got over the problem of the paper fibers showing as textured grain . I had the chance to use one in the late 40's in in a local studio in Fishguard Wales. He. Also had a specialised contact printer for making prints from Kodak cirkut panoramic film used for huge group shots. It had slots to take layers of tissue paper to even up the exposures end to end.

One advantage of using paper negatives for portraits was that they were very easy to pencil retouch compared to film or plates but we're very slow but not as slow as bromide paper is today. As it was made for camera use.
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Terry you have had such an interesting life in photography, you seem to know about everything, I hope that you have written a book about your escapades, it would be a fascinating insight. If you have already written it and are too shy to let on who you are then please drop me a pm with the details!
 
I am nobody I am just old and worked a long time in photography, print and reprographics during a period of rapid change, that covered glass plates onwards and print from letterpress to digital printing. And all the changes from hand type setting to digital page setting and graphics.
It has been an interesting time to be alive. I am far from unique, but a dying breed now. At one time or another I did all of these things. I suppose not many of us covered such a wide field as me. I ended up for my last ten working years as the print and photographic manager in a further and higher education college.
 
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Terrywoodenpic said:
I am nobody I am just old and worked a long time in photography, print and reprographics during a period of rapid change, that covered glass plates onwards and print from letterpress to digital printing. And all the changes from hand type setting to digital page setting and graphics.
It has been an interesting time to be alive. I am far from unique, but a dying breed now. At one time or another I did all of these things. I suppose not many of us covered such a wide field as me. I ended up for my last ten working years as the print and photographic manager in a further and higher education college.
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That makes it even more important that record your memoirs Terry, I often reflect on the changes that I have seen and ponder in amazement the things my kids will see invented in their life, I am so jealous.

Thank goodness you have not selfishly kept all that knowledge and life experience locked up, and graciously shared it with those fortunate students. I think you should write two books, one on the photography methods and process and another full of anecdotes about your work life I have thought of a seasonal title "it was only a printers tale". I bet you can tell some fantastic stories. :)
 
Barney said:
I am starting to get confused, if I take the picture on paper and then develop it is that the picture or a negative? Also, do I use the same chemicals as my developers for film to do the test strips on the paper, I have not a clue what a contact print is or how you do one.
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When you make a picture with paper, it will be a negative (there is a special type of paper that produces a positive, but it's more expensive and has very high contrast)

Creating a contact print gives you a positive version, which is the same size as the negative.

Here's a guide to making a contact print from a paper negative, in as low-tech a way as possible:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T00hnphxgAY


That video uses a desk lamp as the light source. In future, when you have an enlarger, it will probably make sense to use the enlarger as your light source as it's more controllable, but it's not essential
 
Kevin Allan said:
When you make a picture with paper, it will be a negative (there is a special type of paper that produces a positive, but it's more expensive and has very high contrast)

Creating a contact print gives you a positive version, which is the same size as the negative.

Here's a guide to making a contact print from a paper negative, in as low-tech a way as possible:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T00hnphxgAY


That video uses a desk lamp as the light source. In future, when you have an enlarger, it will probably make sense to use the enlarger as your light source as it's more controllable, but it's not essential
Click to expand...

Thanks, that looks straightforward, but how does the light get through to the bottom piece of paper, I could imagine that with a negative.
 
Look at the back of a print that's backlit and you'll see the picture. Light will find a way!!! Lightweight paper will probably allow more through.
 
Nod said:
Look at the back of a print that's backlit and you'll see the picture. Light will find a way!!! Lightweight paper will probably allow more through.
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Ahhhhhh yes that worked. :)
 
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