Outdoor Flash Query

GerryS

GerryS

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I was watching a parade over the weekend and couldn't help but notice the official photographer and their speedlight, it was an outdoor parade. I was trying to understand their use of flash, the flash was firing for each picture, the speedlight head had a diffuser on it, but the head was pointing straight up, in the position you would have it indoors to bounce off a ceiling.

Could anybody explain this use of flash, my logic says you can't use bounce flash if you are using the sky to bounce off, but maybe I'm missing something obvious?
 
quango2k said:
either he has forgotten the flash was on....or he is attempting to look pro ;)

speedlights in daylight are good for fill flash..but pointing skyward with a diffuser is going to do next to sod all.
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Might still get a catch light if nothing else?
 
quango2k said:
either he has forgotten the flash was on....or he is attempting to look pro ;)

speedlights in daylight are good for fill flash..but pointing skyward with a diffuser is going to do next to sod all.
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This
Fortunately, some people have seen pro's pointing their speedlight upwards to bounce indoors and have no idea what's going on, so they think it's useful outdoors too. I say it's fortunate, because it allows us to easily spot an idiot.
 
I once saw a 'pro' photographer pointing his Canon-mounted speedlight at a castle. Being a pro he didn't point it at the sky, he pointed it directly at the castle - which was about 2 miles away...

The flash fired, so it must have worked for him:)
 
When photographing the Xmas outdoor ice rink at night in a local park a bloke with two cameras on a vest harness set up beside me. Each camera was a full frame with a battery grip and a big flash on it. The skaters coming towards us were backlit so I was doing flash fill with my popup. He looked over my shoulder and nodded approvingly. He cranked the big flash on one his cameras up to point skywards with a diffuser cap on it, and tried a few shots. Disappointed with the results he then did the same thing with other camera. Still disappointed with the results he went off to a more frontally lit location. I often see him at public events, always festooned with gear, and always in a big hurry, so I've presumed he's a professional.

During the recent almost complete solar eclipse at a local high viewpoint I noticed quite a few photographers with big DSLRs and flashguns using flash to photograph the sun! I tried catching one with the flash actually going off but my reflexes weren't up to it :-)
 
Haha, from the urban dictionary...

This is when you see people (mainly middle aged men) walking around an amateur golf range with all the equipment that has probably set them back a small fortune, however, they havent even played before and completely useless, yet they have still spent all that money.
Rob: Oi Dave, see that retard smash it into the bunker?
Dave: Yeah, guess hes another All gear, no idea hero....
 
It has to be said that some press photographers' greatest skill is not behind the camera, but getting something interesting in front of it.

Being charitable, there is some advantage to using the flash/Stofen straight up outdoors. It raises the height of the light source and does actually make a useful difference at close range. And when you're close, it doesn't matter that 90% of the light is wasted as the gun will still have enough power. You'll also get a catchlight in the eyes, and maybe pick up some light reflected off nearby objects like white shirts. Unlikely, but possible. But at the very least, it can't do any harm.
 
Hoppy is correct. Marginal elevation of the flash source to avoid redeye at close range, limited "damage" elsewhere. Plus press photogs are often moving too fast to worry about where their flash is :) It could also be a low power catchlight, set the flash to 1/128 power to save battery, point upward to avoid influencing the image, but you're guaranteed a catchlight in the subjects eye.

Now, whether the people sighted doing this were doing it intentionally or simply because they're idiots / copying someone else is not going to be known ;)
 
Denyerec said:
Hoppy is correct. Marginal elevation of the flash source to avoid redeye at close range, limited "damage" elsewhere. Plus press photogs are often moving too fast to worry about where their flash is :) It could also be a low power catchlight, set the flash to 1/128 power to save battery, point upward to avoid influencing the image, but you're guaranteed a catchlight in the subjects eye.

Now, whether the people sighted doing this were doing it intentionally or simply because they're idiots / copying someone else is not going to be known ;)
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Agree. If I was doing that kind of press-scrum work, I'd have a modified 'outdoor Stofen' lined with kitchen foil inside the top and rear, and use it pointing straight up. It's just about the only kind of lighting accessory that's sufficiently small and robust to be practical.

That would work well, and dramatically reduce wasted light, the main benefit being reduced recycle times to keep up with fast frame rates in the heat of the moment. I'm a fan of flash outdoors in bright light - it may be a bit indiscriminate and upset the experts, but it often makes things a lot better and rarely does any harm. Worst case scenario is usually that it adds nothing.
 
Iirc doesn't the stofen manual say always use it angled 45 degrees up? Been a few years now but thought I might have read that...
 
Rich_Ellis said:
Iirc doesn't the stofen manual say always use it angled 45 degrees up? Been a few years now but thought I might have read that...
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It does. But that's indoors, under a white ceiling, with a subject in the kinda normal 10-15ft range. Stofens can be more versatile than that.

There aren't any rules, but if you know how light works, and what a Stofen does to it, then it's a surprisingly useful (and often maligned) accessory - small, very cheap, robust, easy to use.

I have several of the cheap clones that I use for all kind of things, though mostly experimental stuff around my product testing work. They all have bits cut out of them, holes drilled, bits of kitchen foil stuck inside LOL
 
Just wondering if the ones doing the slagging off where getting paid as much as the people they are trying to belittle?
 
HoppyUK said:
It does. But that's indoors, under a white ceiling, with a subject in the kinda normal 10-15ft range. Stofens can be more versatile than that.

There aren't any rules, but if you know how light works, and what a Stofen does to it, then it's a surprisingly useful (and often maligned) accessory - small, very cheap, robust, easy to use.

I have several of the cheap clones that I use for all kind of things, though mostly experimental stuff around my product testing work. They all have bits cut out of them, holes drilled, bits of kitchen foil stuck inside LOL
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Haha, thanks for that - yeah, I use mine all the time and often use it outdoors angled 45º up for fill and catch on HSS!!! Never caused me any issues and works like a dream. Haven't done any drilling or anything yet tho! Have a coupla press photographer mates too and I asked them about the straight up in the air outdoors thing and they say it gives a small amount of light and a catchlight at close quarters. What do they know huh? I must be a dork tho' obvs!
 
The only explanation I can give Is to create catchlights on people eyes especially in closer shots. Though both canon and nikon provide a small built in reflector exactly for that purpose. To use it one must point the flash upward, indoors or out.

I often use direct flash outdoors as partial fill, true it only makes a difference to the closer people, but there is little reason to turn it off between shots.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
The only explanation I can give Is to create catchlights on people eyes especially in closer shots. Though both canon and nikon provide a small built in reflector exactly for that purpose. To use it one must point the flash upward, indoors or out.

I often use direct flash outdoors as partial fill, true it only makes a difference to the closer people, but there is little reason to turn it off between shots.
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Nikon, and a couple of other manufacturers, actually supply a Stofen-type diffuser cap as standard with some guns.
 
Has anyone actually tested a flash outdoors with head up and a stofen diffuser on it? I bet it sends forward more light than we think!

Test: Take a portrait at night!
 
Brazo said:
Has anyone actually tested a flash outdoors with head up and a stofen diffuser on it? I bet it sends forward more light than we think!

Test: Take a portrait at night!
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Do that test in manual, and see what power setting is needed for good exposure. Then do the same with the Soften pointing straight forward - there will be a massive difference. Stofens send the vast majority of light through the top - obvious, if you think about how it's coming out of the gun. Then take the Stofen off, and the exposure will jump up again.
 
Steve Smith said:
Or perhaps you have a white reflector above it at 45 degrees...


Steve.
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Yes :) This is my normal go-to flash accessory - Lumiquest QuikBounce http://store.lumiquest.com/lumiquest-quik-bounce/

It works outside with flaps closed, raising the height of the flash, softening it noticeably at close distance, and without wasting any light. Then indoors, open the flaps and most of the light goes to the ceiling (or wall) with a nicely judged amount of slightly softened direct fill-in. You can also vary the bounce/fill ratio by zooming the flash head. Then it folds away flat.

The other accessory I like very much is the DIY Black Foamy Thing. Used with the right bounce surface and careful exposure balance, results are superb http://neilvn.com/tangents/the-black-foamie-thing/
 
HoppyUK said:
Do that test in manual, and see what power setting is needed for good exposure. Then do the same with the Soften pointing straight forward - there will be a massive difference. Stofens send the vast majority of light through the top - obvious, if you think about how it's coming out of the gun. Then take the Stofen off, and the exposure will jump up again.
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Yes I realise that, at best it will provide a little fill flash but perhaps that's all the photographer was looking for? To take a daylight portrait with a little fill but softer than using direct flash. Another option would be to use the little bounce card incorporated into some flashes to tip a little light forward.
 
Brazo said:
Yes I realise that, at best it will provide a little fill flash but perhaps that's all the photographer was looking for? To take a daylight portrait with a little fill but softer than using direct flash. Another option would be to use the little bounce card incorporated into some flashes to tip a little light forward.
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You'd need to try it to see - but a Stofen will do little to soften a light at general outdoor distances. If we accept that larger = softer, the Stofen is about 2% larger (softer) than a bare flash.

If the fill ratio is right and the bare flash is only acting as fill, you shouldn't need to worry about it being harsh, because it'll not create any shadows, it's just filling shadows.
 
The reason fill-in flash is both easy and effective, at least in exposure terms, is that shadows from ambient light cast under chins etc are usually in the region of three or four stops darker than normal skin tone. Therefore even a weak flash will begin to lift those quite noticeably, and there's a big window of acceptable exposure level before the flash becomes too dominant.
 
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