Other people editing your images...

yvonne

yvonne

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Name
yvonne
Edit My Images
Yes
Recently i did a model shoot and posted the edited images up on facebook for the others involved to copy and display on their pages. However, i noticed that the make-up artist did her own edit of my shots, without asking, then proceeded to upload them to her facebook.

When i say she did her own edit, i mean she blurred the skin so it looks like plastic. [I had already edited the skin to remove any minor blemishes].

The girl who did the make-up did credit me as the photographer, but i don't appreciate her editing them further, as it's not the way i would have done it... and don't want others to think it's the way i had them. I'm not making a living out of photography, so it'll not affect me in any significant way, but i just find it annoying. She may as well not have bothered putting make-up on the girls face if she was going to blur half of it out. Some days i just feel like giving up. :shake:

Suppose i should say something to her, in a polite way, but just felt like having a wee rant on here to get it out of my system.

Anyone else ever had this type of thing happen them, or is it just me!? :thinking:
 
There was another long thread about exactly this very recently.

Of course she shouldn't have done it. It's bad manners as much as anything else to do with copyright and stuff. But from her point of view, she obviously likes what she's done and probably thinks she's doing you a favour!

The bottom line with all this is once you put stuff up on the web in digital form, you have lost all control and people can and will do things you perhaps won't like, innocently or sometimes not, and there's nothing you can do about it.

You'll never stop it and jumping up and down only tires you out. If you want the benefits of the web, you have to take the downsides with it. Sorry.
 
You have a fair point.

I don't think she meant any harm. It probably didn't cross her mind that i'd be annoyed that she'd made changes. Or, maybe she thought i wouldn't notice or something... :shrug:

At any rate it's done now and once they're out there... they're out there to stay.

I searched for that thread you mentioned but can't find it. Any chance of someone linking me to it?

Thanks.
 
yvonne said:
You have a fair point.

I don't think she meant any harm. It probably didn't cross her mind that i'd be annoyed that she'd made changes. Or, maybe she thought i wouldn't notice or something... :shrug:

At any rate it's done now and once they're out there... they're out there to stay.

I searched for that thread you mentioned but can't find it. Any chance of someone linking me to it?

Thanks.
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That's the sort of attitude that will result in people always taking the p*** when it comes to togs and their work.

There's only one thing you should be doing and that's contacting them, telling them in no uncertain terms not to mess with your work and to take the images down immediately. Would they be ok with you messing around with the make up of a model after they'd finished with them?
 
In other trades - professions (what ever) its gone on for ages. How many of us go into a restaurent and put salt, pepper, brown sauce etc etc onto our food, do we not know the chef has already seasoned the food to perfection :D:D (my son is a top level chef, I had not considered this until he told me).

If we are shooting a portrait/wedding do we move the hair etc after the hair designer has got it perfect.

I actually agree with you yvonne, it would annoy me, just explaining how the makeup artist came to play with them :D:D
 
artona said:
In other trades - professions (what ever) its gone on for ages. How many of us go into a restaurent and put salt, pepper, brown sauce etc etc onto our food, do we not know the chef has already seasoned the food to perfection :D:D (my son is a top level chef, I had not considered this until he told me).

If we are shooting a portrait/wedding do we move the hair etc after the hair designer has got it perfect.

I actually agree with you yvonne, it would annoy me, just explaining how the makeup artist came to play with them :D:D
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But a restaurant leave salt and pepper out for you to put on your food. One thing you wouldn't do though is smother the meal in ketchup and mustard and then try to make out that the chef had prepared it that way.
 
Its not the same to us Dman but it is to a chef I can assure you. He or she hates the fact the owner puts out salt and pepper.

However the chef gets on with it knowing there is nothing he can do. Sadly its the same for us although I would contact the make up artist and ask for my name to be removed and instead a link to my origonal photos

stew
 
do we James, I am not sure. Copyright is such a blurred issue, especially since the internet became main stream. How would you pursue this through the courts?
 
People are paying for that meal and there's no copyright issues involved in them adding a bit of flavour to it. This artist hasn't paid for the images and hasn't been granted licence to alter them in any way.

Having said that, the OP seems happy enough to just let it go. I just hope that nobody sees those edited images and she loses possible business as a result of those seeing them thinking they're crap. After all, make up artists and photographers go hand in hand and there's a lot of possible networking and business to be had out of each other.
 
Our posts probably crossed Dave. Back when I was shooting commercial photography I did a lot of PR photography and some advertising. The same shot used for PR in a magazine would fetch less than an advertising photograph used on a billboard and so selling the license for use was easy to quantify and easy for a judge to work out.

How would you approach this in this instance, its an interesting subject

stew
 
artona said:
do we James, I am not sure. Copyright is such a blurred issue, especially since the internet became main stream. How would you pursue this through the courts?
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It's not copyright, but the moral rights. Which, among other things such as the right to have the work attributed to you, protects your work from alteration and defamation, etc.

This is true in Australia anyway, and the UK generally have similar or even more protective laws around copyright.
 
Moral rights James brings me back to the chef scenario. A chef will slave a lot harder than us photographers, do we then have a moral right not to alter his creaton.

Listening to my son has really altered the way I eat out :D:D

You are right about the copyright laws but I wonder if there have been any test cases recently

stew
 
artona said:
How would you approach this in this instance, its an interesting subject

stew
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Before doing anything else, I'd have politely requested the removal of the images, pointing out that my images when online are advertising what I do, and if people think that I'm doing something that I wouldn't usually do, it could reflect badly on me. I'd then use an example of had I ruffled the hair of a model after they'd worked with them, I doubt they'd be too happy about it. If they wanted to use the images, I'd tell them that's fine, but in an unaltered format.

If they didn't take them down, I'd get Facebook to do it. You grant Facebook permission to do what they want with images uploaded, but not Joe Public.
 
Facebook...... thats an interesting thought
 
she has breached your copyright by editing the images so ask her politely to remove them.
 
artona said:
In other trades - professions (what ever) its gone on for ages. How many of us go into a restaurent and put salt, pepper, brown sauce etc etc onto our food, do we not know the chef has already seasoned the food to perfection :D:D (my son is a top level chef, I had not considered this until he told me).
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I don't. Unless it's chips and/or battered fish, which will have salt and vinegar added, or salad, which will have mayonaise if there is no dressing already on it. However, if I'm in a decent restaurant I'm not going to be ordering fish and chips with a side salad in the first place :lol:
 
A quick message Yv to explain that she's not to edit your images. Put it to her that you could easily alter the makeup in photoshop but out of respect for her work you don't do that and suggest that she should show you the same respect.

Or remove it. ;)
 
I actually think the chef analogy is a rather good one. Sounds a bit ridiculous, but actually there many similar parallels. Maybe there should be legal restrictions on what you can and can't do to a chef's artistic creations. It would be no less absurd than some of the 'rights' some photographers claim for their work (much of which has zero artistic input in the true sense).

And what exactly consitutes inappropriate editing? Cropping? Tweaking the colour balance? Take it a step futher and you will not find a published image that has not been edited in some way, usually not by the photographer and sometimes very extensively. But since it generally makes the image better, nobody objects to that.
 
If I remember correctly there was a chef, Nico Landis, one of the first celeb chefs, who threw out a diner who asked for salt at his restaurant
 
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POAH said:
she has breached your copyright by editing the images so ask her politely to remove them.
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No, I don't think this is a copyright issue. As stated above it's a moral rights issue, and unless expressly agreed, photographers have the moral right to not have their images "improved" in any way.
 
I read somewhere that chefs in Japan do really take offense if you put loads of soy on your sushi as this seems like the food is not done correctly and they take it very seriously.

On the other hand if the lady hasn't been told how can she know. Some people here are asking for photos to be taken out I find that a bit harsh.
 
jerry12953 said:
Better in whose opinion, Hoppy?
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Well, better in the opinion of whoever is doing the editing. Send me one of yours Jerry, I'm sure I could improve it :D

I don't want to get into a another of those moral/copyright debates again as we're never going to agree on that. The point I made above is just that if you put stuff in the public domain then you just have to accept that it's open to abuse - editing, modification, copying, stealing, re-selling, everything. It's bad and it's wrong, but there it is.

It's like leaving all your doors and windows open, inviting people to come around and admire your stuff, and then being surprised when things go missing. Making laws that say it's illegal to steal doesn't stop people doing it, or prudent people from locking their doors.
 
HoppyUK said:
Well, better in the opinion of whoever is doing the editing. Send me one of yours Jerry, I'm sure I could improve it :D

I don't want to get into a another of those moral/copyright debates again as we're never going to agree on that. The point I made above is just that if you put stuff in the public domain then you just have to accept that it's open to abuse - editing, modification, copying, stealing, re-selling, everything. It's bad and it's wrong, but there it is.

It's like leaving all your doors and windows open, inviting people to come around and admire your stuff, and then being surprised when things go missing. Making laws that say it's illegal to steal doesn't stop people doing it, or prudent people from locking their doors.
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I largely agree with you about putting images up on the web. But this doesn't really seem like one of those random events that happen when you're not looking. It's a bit like the photographer not liking what the make-up "artiste" had done and changing it before the shoot. Shouldn't everyone know where their boundaries are?
 
altering original works of art is a breach of copyright (unless copyright and lapsed)

jerry12953 said:
No, I don't think this is a copyright issue. As stated above it's a moral rights issue, and unless expressly agreed, photographers have the moral right to not have their images "improved" in any way.
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