Optimum workflow for high quality in Ps

Digifrog

Digifrog

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Scott
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Hello TP

I have recently been thinking about how I can improve my workflow in Ps to obtain the highest quality available. I always shoot RAW and I do as much as I can in ACR before opening the image in Ps (CS3).

It is just after the adjustments I make in ACR I have recently thought, "am I doing this in the best way possible, to achieve the best results possible, without any defects?".

OK, so I open the RAW file in ACR and do some adjustments. Then (presently) I just 'Open Image' and work in 8 Bits/Channel & RGB Color. Now though I have become concerned that this probably isn't the best procedure to follow. I have discovered maybe this procedure I should follow instead.....

1. Instead of clicking the "Open Image" tab in ACR, I should click the "Save Image" tab (bottom left) and save as a TIF file.

2. Then open said TIF in Ps, go to Edit > Mode > and select 16 Bits/Channel & RGB Color. It is then I should carry on with my process?? I say 16 Bits as 32 Bits means I cannot use Filters.

This is an image I did earlier.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/psychedelicamphibian/4528025085/sizes/o/

It was shot in RAW with some adjustments in ACR and then the image opened in CS3 in 8 Bits/RGB. The only process I did was open the Nik Silver Efex filter and selected a soft blue tone (either Blue Toner #1 or Selenium #1, I forget which now) from one of the presets, and increased the contrast slightly in Curves.

Now I really like the image but if you look in the sky towards the right there is an ever so slight banding between tones :'(. The Cyan cast is obviously from the toning, but the banding annoys me. I'm flummoxed as to why that is there as I think the image wasn't over processed. What's caused this? Could it be my workflow? :bang: I worked from the "Neutral" desaturation preset in NSE.

The EXIF for the image is 0.1 sec, f/9, iso100. A Lee 3 stop hard grad was used on the sky. Nikon D80, sigma 10-20mm @ 10mm.

I will be grateful for any help/advice to this rather long winded explanation, for which I apologize. Thank you.

Rgds

Scott
 
The obvious answer is to work on an image in 8 bit, repeat the processing in 16 bit, print both and see if you can tell the difference after someone shuffles them...

I find working in 16 bit can help if you have smooth gradients that are likely to posterise if you go crazy with curves, but it's more a question of moving to 16 bit if I know there is going to be a problem, rather than being there permanently. Working in 32 bit images is a waste of time, memory and hard disk space, 32 bit files are realistically the domain of HDR imagery where you're storing more than the visible space.

Others may prefer to work in 16 bit mode all the time, irrespective of whether for that particular image or set of corrections it would help. Those people typically have faster computers and larger hard drives than I do! :D
 
Denyerec said:
The obvious answer is to work on an image in 8 bit, repeat the processing in 16 bit, print both and see if you can tell the difference after someone shuffles them...

I find working in 16 bit can help if you have smooth gradients that are likely to posterise if you go crazy with curves, but it's more a question of moving to 16 bit if I know there is going to be a problem, rather than being there permanently. Working in 32 bit images is a waste of time, memory and hard disk space, 32 bit files are realistically the domain of HDR imagery where you're storing more than the visible space.

Others may prefer to work in 16 bit mode all the time, irrespective of whether for that particular image or set of corrections it would help. Those people typically have faster computers and larger hard drives than I do! :D
Click to expand...

thanks for the explanation Denyer.

So, when you click on Open Image in ACR, what is it opened as? TIF, JPEG?

I did rework the image and found that if I desaturated the image before opening Nik Silver Efex, I found a much smoother toning, opposed to the banding I got by opening a colour image in Nik Silver Efex and doing the conversion. This worked for both 8 and 16 Bits. But saying that, couldn't achieve the same level of contrast.

Diagnostics on the aboce image of what went wrong are still welcomed.

Cheers

Scott
 
Scott

I would take it that when opened from ACR the image has all the attributes of a TIFF file, as it has been opened from a RAW file originally and not a compressed JPEG.

16 bit will always give you a smoother result than an 8 bit, but it does use more space. However if you want quality.....remember though most viewing devices are 8 bit as are most (but not all ) printers
 
I had an image which had some banding in it so I put the original image back into ACR then changed the prefs to open the image as a 16 bit instead of an 8bit. When it opened in Photoshop there was no banding at all. Because of this I now open all images from ACR as 16 bit images and only convert to 8bit once I have finished my adjustments.
 
Thanks guys.

How do I set the default to Open Image as 16 Bit? I can't see anywhere in ACR that allows me to Open to 16 Bit, as opposed to 8 Bit, which is the current default.

On diagnosing the image in question, I have just read this (from Northlight Images)...

"You may remember I mentioned the critical differences that your RAW processing could have on how your black and white image looked..."

"If you try converting an image and don't like the effects, then go back to your raw file and process it differently - the colours don't have to be 'correct', since the colour image is just an intermediate step in creating your B/W image..."


My RAW adjustment settings were...

Recovery = 8
Fill Light = 14
Blacks = 5
Brightness = +50
Contrast = +53
Clarity = +55

Highlights = +48
Darks = +24
Shadows = +39

Sharpening = 72
Radius = 1.3
Luminance NR = 36

Saturation Reds = -37
Saturation Oranges = -20
Saturation Yellows = -16
Saturation Aquas = +20
Saturation Blues = +44

For me, the most important element to the image is the Contrast and Tone, therefor the initial Colour is not important. As I pushed the Contrast up in ACR & Nik Silver Efex could this be the reason for the banding?

Some more practice is needed I think but any expert advice is very welcomed.

Thank you.

Scott
 
Scott

I wonder if you are overdoing the adjustments a bit.

Looking at the Exposure and Curves data you seem to be making corrections in both, to get to the final result. You've got a lot of contrast dialled in plus you making some significant corrections with the curves control. I notice you are using brightness rather than exposure to adjust the image. Is this to help retain highlight detail ?

Try a couple of things, Don't use contrast control but use the curves control instead. I think this gives more control over the way the image looks. I seldom touch contrast, except in with the local adjustment tools. Also try using luminance rather than saturation to give the result you want. I think this approach is more subtle than saturation with B&W conversions.

Even with 16 bit processing it may be possible to go to far. I don't use Nik software so I can't comment if this makes any contribution, but it may be an idea to use one piece of software to do the majority of the corrections, rather than multiplying the effects between two.

Experiment with a more modest output from ACR, and then adjust to get the result you like in NIK. See if there is any improvement that way

John C
 
If you work in 8 bit you run the risk of banding when you adjust levels so work always in 16 bit. Don't convert down to 8, always keep the Photoshop file in 16 bit, always work on that. I can't emphasise that enough; downsampling will chuck away image information and you run the risk of losing quality. Always work with everything you have.

Whether you're pushing things or not is a personal decision and very much dependant upon the shot and the effect you're trying to achieve. Sometimes even 16 bit isn't enough. For landscapes I nearly always bracket two stops either side and combine into a 32 bit image. Not because I'm any great fan of HDR, I'm not, but because it gives me the range to do what I feel I need to do. Photoshop limits what you can do in 32 bit but I'm hoping CS5 will address this limitation.

Obviously, when you want to show your work on the web or elswhere you'll need an 8 bit image so save out a new file from your 16 bit but keep the 16 bit, that's your working copy.
 
Chappers said:
Scott

I wonder if you are overdoing the adjustments a bit.

Looking at the Exposure and Curves data you seem to be making corrections in both, to get to the final result. You've got a lot of contrast dialled in plus you making some significant corrections with the curves control. I notice you are using brightness rather than exposure to adjust the image. Is this to help retain highlight detail ?

Try a couple of things, Don't use contrast control but use the curves control instead. I think this gives more control over the way the image looks. I seldom touch contrast, except in with the local adjustment tools. Also try using luminance rather than saturation to give the result you want. I think this approach is more subtle than saturation with B&W conversions.


John C
Click to expand...

Thanks John

Thanks for the tips. Yes, it maybe the fact that I pushed sliders a bit far. Even in 16 Bit this is the case with the final result. What absolutely must not change in the image is the contrast, I love that contrast in the sky. Also the toning is important, but advice tells me to get the tone subtle and then halve the strength again. I've set to default so that ACR opens in 16Bits from now on and I shall learn to go easy on thos sliders.

kimaldis said:
If you work in 8 bit you run the risk of banding when you adjust levels so work always in 16 bit. Don't convert down to 8, always keep the Photoshop file in 16 bit, always work on that. I can't emphasise that enough; downsampling will chuck away image information and you run the risk of losing quality. Always work with everything you have.
Click to expand...

Thanks Kim

I've always worked in 8 Bits up til now. I will from now on work in 16, and save. And for images on Flickr I will convert down to 8 and save as the normal JPEG.

Question now is what is the best Colour Space etc to work in in ACR/Ps as a default? ProPhoto RGB? sRGB? What are the main differences here?

Scott
 
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