Nikon or Canon lens dilemma!

gman

gman

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Graham
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Need to make a decision today on a lens to get and not sure which to go for. It's mainly for doing street candids but here's my pros and cons for each and greatly welcome any comments or corrections on mine as I'm going shopping later today! :)


Nikon AF-S VR 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF-ED (for the D1X)

Pros:

  • I'm guessing this is a better lens than the Sigma one but reviews are showing both as being good lenses, although the Sigma apparently can be hit and miss with a good copy?
  • I'm not getting to keep the 17-55mm F2.8 that I currently have for the D1X but already have a good quality Sigma 18-50mm for the Canon 400D so it'll mean I'll at least have a lens for my Nikon.
  • If out and about I won't have to swap lenses for different situations as I'll have a wide zoom on the Canon and a Telephoto on the Nikon so will hopefully reduce the chances of missing that shot.
  • I won't have to wait about for the Canon 55-250mm IS now!
Cons:

  • I know my Canon camera much better than the Nikon and I don't know how reliable the D1X will be, so could end up with the camera failing and no telephoto ability.
  • It means I'll be dipping into my wallet for the first time for the dark side and I may be converted :p
  • It means there's no point in getting the Canon 55-250mm IS which I've been after for a while

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS (for the Canon EOS400D)

Pros:

  • It would reduce the amount of lens changing outside as it goes wide and I can also change the lens for indoor wide shots using the F2.8 18-50mm
  • I've found my Sigma lenses to be of a high quality, although I am going for the pricer ones.
  • It's probably better quality than the Canon 55-250mm IS and the Sigma is in stock.
  • I know my Canon much better and it's new so in the back of my head I'm thinking this is a safer choice
Cons:

  • I could get a duff lens? (or is this a myth??)
  • It doesn't go as far as the Nikon one
  • I've already got 18-50mm covered so I'm wasting a fair amount of this lens
  • I really wanted the Canon 55-250mm IS but nowhere seems to have it in stock.
  • I'll have no lens for the Nikon eventually :(



Is there anything I've missed or could anyone add anything here to help me make up my mind? It was so much easier before with just having the Canon! :D
 
my preference would be to hold out for the 55-250 IS as I keep seeing great shots with this lens. Another option, but more expensive, would be to get a second hand canon 70-200mm f4 as it takes the 1.4X kenko extender very well.
 
ffs, nowhere local ever seems to carry any bloody stock :bang:
 
The darkside was just too strong this time :D
 
The 70-300 VR is excellent for street candids, it's nice and light and being AF-S is quick to focus, so you can get some really quick candid shots in
 
The darkside catches all in the end.:)

Have you found one then?
 
Yeah, couldn't be bothered driving through to Edinburgh again because the Glasgow branch of Calumet is yet again out of stock and every Jessops in Scotland is out of stock and within hours the Edinburgh branch then ran out of stock so got it being delivery tomorrow morning.

I've got very little patience with shopping and always prefer going into a shop even if it means paying a little extra but it annoys me when the bricks and mortar don't have any bloody stock and then complain that they are losing business to online shops. Online with a chain is ok for me as I can still go into their shops if there's a problem. The worst which I avoid like the plague are online shops that won't display an actual address or are vague about delivery times and stock levels etc. The way I see it is we certainly have the technology available so if they can't display these things there is a chance they are hiding something - which I've found recently to be inadequate stock and you eventually find in the smallest print possible...if it's not in stock we'll delivery it once it is. Thanks, that really helps!

I can wait until tomorrow morning but not some time next week. Guess that's why I'm veering away from Canon, I find their stock levels pretty poor but then maybe that's just me being impatient or the lenses I look at?

:)
 
Glad it's not just me that they didn't have the stock for. Before I got my 40D and 70-200 f4 L from Kerso last week I tried every Jessops from Helensburgh to Edinburgh and both Calumets only to be told they'd have to order them in - should be here within 7 days but can't guarantee it, sir.
 
Does anyone know why it's so hard to find decent stock? I'm wondering if it's because they can't afford to keep high stock levels due to the price of lenses etc or perhaps people are prepared to wait and therefore there isn't a demand for it?

Personally I've found I normally wait until a situation requires me to get a particular lens and therefore I need it asap. I guess bad planning on my part isn't a crisis on theirs! hehe
 
Well, a lot of stuff will have been held back for the Bejing market to capture the tourists with money to burn
 
The Nikon AF-S VR 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF-ED arrived early this morning, credit due to Calumet for sourcing and delivering it so quickly, and boy I'm impressed! The dark side certainly is strong! hehe

It's a b****r that I'm still waiting for my new batteries and also the rain isn't helping but the VR in it is fantastic and very impressed with the build quality! Haven't had a chance to test it properly but so far the IQ looks top-notch!

:D
 
You will enjoy using it.:)
 
gman said:
Need to make a decision today on a lens to get and not sure which to go for. It's mainly for doing street candids
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Neither if its mainly for street candids. Street photography is 50mm, 85mm at a push and around 24/28mm. Its not about being at one end of the street at 300mm feeling all comfortable being so detached from the subject.
 
pete, IMO thats only if you have the confidence to be close to your subjects...
I agree tottally, but feel sometimes a longer focal lenght allows you to relax more.
 
Yup I know that its by far easier to shoot at 300mm but its not the idea of street photography. Its easier to play football by picking up the ball and shooting anyone who comes near you, but thats not in the spirit of the game. Ask anyone who loves street photography and they will agree. They'll tell you that its not 300mm, its 50mm. Get close up. How do you get confident? You have to face your fear which you won't at 300mm.
 
Thats an event though. Its not technically street photography. I use a 70-200 for similar events, but they are events. I would never use my 70-200 for street photography. I'm getting used to using my 10-20 tbh.
 
Although i have never done this pete because where i live they would point a fist towards you, I agree Pete.
But when starting out, it must very different then having done it for years presumebly. I would personally take out both a 50 and a zoom lens just so i can get used to pointing at subjects then "getting in there face" when i would be confident.
 
Starting out I used a cheap 28-105. I never walked around using the 100-400 when I bought it. I knew it wasn't in the spirit of it. I knew that in order to be a better photographer I had to get over my fear of it. By the way, I'm not over my fear of it but I know that I need to be out doing it.
 
petemc said:
Yup I know that its by far easier to shoot at 300mm but its not the idea of street photography. Its easier to play football by picking up the ball and shooting anyone who comes near you, but thats not in the spirit of the game. Ask anyone who loves street photography and they will agree. They'll tell you that its not 300mm, its 50mm. Get close up. How do you get confident? You have to face your fear which you won't at 300mm.
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In my view if you up close then it's not a candid because the actual definition of a candid is an unposed photograph which isn't going to happen if you are in their face and/or they are aware of you taking their photo as they are bound to change their expression or actions.

Being further away for me is nothing to do with my confidence, it's about capturing their completely natural expression, that's why I prefer the longer reach. I did a day in Edinburgh with my 18-50mm and struggled because they always saw me and either smiled at me or moved on quickly. I would class that more as street photography but not candid - but I do also enjoy this type of photography which is why I can now just switch cameras rather than have to change lenses :)

I also don't agree that's it's easier to shoot at 300mm as there's more than can get in your way, possible camera shake, limited angles/creativity and sometimes low light unless you have a good fast lens.

I appreciate that everyone has their own styles and preferences and don't expect everyone else to agree with my style and methods. I've noticed that quite often the way you post is very "I'm right, period". To me it comes across quite arrogant but then I also appreciate that stuff typed can be misunderstood and prefer to take what you say in a more positive light in that you are being helpful :)

As an after thought, it's not always wise to get up close and possibly in their face in Glasgow! :lol: ;)
 
In my experience thats all wrong :p

img_3712.jpg


Taken close up, they didn't see me and its a candid.

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Close up, candid, they didn't see me.

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Close up, candid, they didn't see me.

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Uber close up. I was right next to the woman at 10mm. She must have known I was there and yet the moment isn't spoilt at all.

The simple thing is that street photography has been around for over 60 years using a certain style and select group of lenses. Thats a huge history filled with brilliant photographs and masters of the art. Its not just me that saying this as I'm trying to stay true to that history. Its entirely possible to do candids at 10mm without people noticing.

Now, for the record I'm not saying that you'll get bad photos. Gary's are great. What I'm saying is that if you intend to do actual street photography then you're going about it wrongly.

[youtube]5dipTqJfiE4[/youtube]
 
Fair enough. It's pretty obvious why the lady in the last photo couldn't care less about you photographing her ;) Also, 60 and 70mm isn't exactly close up in my opinion, well not on a cropped camera.

I'm not saying I'm right and you are wrong and those are very good photos which do show that one doesn't need 300mm, although you seem to be focused on 300mm and forgetting that it's a 70-300mm lens we are talking about, I just like having the 300mm reach in case it's required.

I've got a decent 18-50mm lens for the Canon so taking on board what you are saying I think that rather than go about it on paper it's better for me to get out there and develop experience with both lenses and see what suits me best. When it stops raining that is! :)


Interesting video, but I did notice how a lot of the photos were taken from behind people and the street cleaner made a sharp exit as soon as he was being photographed. Looks like a technique for frontal ones is to be fast with the shot - looks like I'm going to have to learn fast focusing! :)
 
gman said:
Fair enough. It's pretty obvious why the lady in the last photo couldn't care less about you photographing her ;)
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Still a candid without eye contact :p

Also, 60 and 70mm isn't exactly close up in my opinion, well not on a cropped camera.
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Closer than 300mm and I did say 85mm at a push.

I just like having the 300mm reach in case it's required.
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Got feet? These pictures are just a few of mine, without including event photography where I do stand in front of people with a 10mm lens. As I said you've got over 60 years of history saying to get up close and use a 50mm lens or wider. As Robert Capa famously said, "If your pictures aren't good you're not close enough."

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Got any more?
 
hehe

So are you then saying that you can't do street or candid photography with a 70-300mm lens?
 
What I'm saying is that if you want to do proper street photography like the masters do then don't use a 70-300. I'm not saying you can't use the lens to get a good photo though. But street photography is more than just zooming in on people walking around town. A lot more. Often you get people photographing random guys walking around town at 300mm and well its sharp but theres no story. Street is all about that moment on the street. You have to be close to get those moments. Do some reading :)
 
But what if I want to do candid photography instead of street photography?
 
Then as I've demonstrated you can by getting close. There is a guy on Flickr called motionid and he uses a 70-200 and 135. Great candida but pushing it a little IMHO
 
I'm just kidding! I do tend to try and read up on things before I ask questions and to be honest you've actually got me thinking not so much about the lenses but more about what I'm wanting to capture when out. My preference was close ups of people's expressions, where I reckon a longer reach lens would be better but I didn't really consider the other side of street photography being the telling of a story and also capturing the surroundings to help tell this story. This side definitely appeals to me and I do agree that a wider lens is what's needed for this.

If I may quote:

Using a long lens is'nt a good option as it isolates a subject from its environment and produces a very different type of shot to traditional street photography. Many interesting situations in the street involve more than one or two subjects, so that should be a major consideration when deciding how mucho of a scene you include in your pictures. Long-lens shots don't allow for a wider, more intimate viewpoint, and the vast majority of memorable street work has been shot with lenses between 28mm and 50mm"
David Solomons

At the least you've given me something new to consider and hopefully try out next time I'm out :thumbs:
 
gman said:
But what if I want to do candid photography instead of street photography?
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Now you're just being arguementative for arguements sake:lol:

Pete is right, you are right, what the heck, it's horses for courses. If you like the results gained at 300mm, and they make good pics, and you like them, then that's all that matters.

Essentially we make pictures because it pleases us to do so.

Pete's photography is hard to critiscise, it's fresh, sharp, and allways interesting, which is why he champions getting close up and personal, and that's a decision he has mande, and feels comfortable with.

I'll happily take candids with an 80mm from 20 feet away, or from close up, taken with a wide angle at the waist. I've taken a few with a 50mm, but I don't feel entirely comfortable doing so.

Do your own thing. Not what anybody else says, that way, you'll develop a personal style, and not an imitation of somebody elses.

Fab lens BTW, and I hope you get the battery problem sorted out soon.

Good luck:D
 
dougdarter said:
Pete's photography is hard to critiscise, it's fresh, sharp, and allways interesting, which is why he champions getting close up and personal, and that's a decision he has mande, and feels comfortable with.
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Thanks :) Strictly speaking though there are times when I'm not comfortable with it but I know that I have to get that photo.

I'll happily take candids with an 80mm from 20 feet away, or from close up, taken with a wide angle at the waist. I've taken a few with a 50mm, but I don't feel entirely comfortable doing so.
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Me too at events. I take a hell of a lot of these and they do look great. I've got no issue with people taking a candid with a telephoto at an event, but I do on the street.

Do your own thing. Not what anybody else says, that way, you'll develop a personal style, and not an imitation of somebody elses.
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Its funny that you say that and also say that my work is good because I take my inspiration from others and I'm strict about keeping to the unwritten rules of street photography like the others. I follow in their footsteps because I love their work, and from that I've become who I am. I know what I like to shoot and what I don't like to, and I've also developed my own take / style.
 
petemc said:
Thanks :)

Its funny that you say that and also say that my work is good because I take my inspiration from others and I'm strict about keeping to the unwritten rules of street photography like the others. I follow in their footsteps because I love their work, and from that I've become who I am. I know what I like to shoot and what I don't like to, and I've also developed my own take / style.
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That's exactly why your work is so good Pete, because you take inspiration from others, but you don't slavisly follow anybody elses style, nor, I think do you intentionally emulate any particular photographer. You extract from a melange, all that is best about those whom you admire, and use the product to develop a style which is all your own.

I would suspect that most artists from the beginning of time have done exactly the same.

What I was suggesting in the previous post was that an aspiring photographer/artist, whatever, follow their own artifice in an attempt to develop style of their own, and not necessarily do/believe whatever others try and tell them they should or should not do. If they did, they would abrogate their own creativity on the altar of conformity.
 
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