Nikon D800e with SB910 help please

ndwgolf

ndwgolf

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Neil Williams
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Guys
I did a training class 2 months ago and after the class I bough a SB910 and umbrella with a stand and I already had a SB600.
My plan was to do some studio type flash photography at home with my wife as a model but I have failed miserably. I can't even remember how to set up the flash :( :(
Is there any basic basic videos that anyone knows of that can get me going in the right direction.
Last night I tried to shoot my wife against a grey background and light up half of her face and have the background Black but it seems that the D800 flash is stoping the background from being black as it is firing even though the camera is set to commander mode with -- (no flash)
Any help will be much appreciated
 
If you have the guns set correctly, then no light will be coming from the commander unit. It will still fire a pre-flash (containing morse code type command pulses) but that happens before the shutter opens. It will also fire during the actual exposure, but when set to '--' the brightness is extremely low and it will not effect the image.

As per your other thread, if you're serious about studio lighting then the way to start is with a proper studio head and some basic light modifiers. You can get great results with speedlites too, but the learning curve is steeper and longer, and often frustrating. Ultimately the right tools for the job will win out anyway, as they're both easier and better.
 
I guess I don't have it set correctly as it is still lightining the background. I will try again tonight but the model is getting frustrated at my inability to get a decent picture..........Any kind of picture :(
 
Just replied to your other thread and have seen this.

Just had a thought.

When you set up the pop up as commander you need to press ok once you changed it or it won't save your changes - it happened to me in the d90 a few times and couldn't work it out. I then started changing the settings and going back into the commander menu once I'd changed it to make sure the changes happened.

I like the sound of the Odin triggers but it's useful to have backup via the pop up cls.

S
 
do you have an example pic? I'm just guessing but the light on the background is spilling from the umbrella. How close to the background is your wife? Are you using TTL or manual flash? Remember that (may be counter intuitively) you'll need more power on her to achieve a black background. Lastly what camera mode are you using. I'm wondering if the grey background is as a result of ambient creeping in
 
Sorry deleted the pictures but here is what I was doing. I had the camera set in manual shutter ~200 f4 ISO 100
Flash set at M 1/8 (I think)......does this sound about right
 
I also had my wife about 4 feet in front of the wall and the umbrella 90 deg with a shield stopping the flash from going to the wall. In lighroom when I used the auto exposure correction tool it basically said the picture was 3.5 under exposed............
 
ndwgolf said:
Sorry deleted the pictures but here is what I was doing. I had the camera set in manual shutter ~200 f4 ISO 100
Flash set at M 1/8 (I think)......does this sound about right
Click to expand...
ndwgolf said:
I also had my wife about 4 feet in front of the wall and the umbrella 90 deg with a shield stopping the flash from going to the wall. In lighroom when I used the auto exposure correction tool it basically said the picture was 3.5 under exposed............
Click to expand...

Its hard to answer with any certainty. So this is a general answer.I would be included to use a setting that ensured no ambient at all, I think those would let some in. I guess if you've metered them they probably are right. Try moving (if you've space your wife further from the wall. Flagging (or shielding the flash is good) but ultimately an umbrella doesn't make it easy to control the light. It softens beautifully, but throws it everywhere, which isn't ideal for this

I'm not sure any auto exposure tool (in LR or whatever) will help here, just they're trying to get the best shaped histogram they can, which isn't really what you want.
 
As Richard says, it's much easier with the right tool - a studio flash head.

But as that isn't the route you've chosen, my advice is to practice and experiment with a still life subject until you understand the correct settings.

I should go and work for Relate :)
 
No don't use Ttl. It's a brilliant tool in its place, but it will be trying to achieve something you don't want
 
ndwgolf said:
Sorry deleted the pictures but here is what I was doing. I had the camera set in manual shutter ~200 f4 ISO 100
Flash set at M 1/8 (I think)......does this sound about right
Click to expand...

Very hard to say, impossible actually, but I can't remember ever using a speedlite and umbrella at 1/8th power - sounds too low.

Umbrellas spill a lot of light, and if it's a shoot-through then that's why the background is picking up brightness. With a shoot-though, half the light bounces straight out of the back and around the room, and from the front it's spread around 180 degrees, again bouncing around the room and coming back to the subject. 4ft is no distance to the background if you want it to go dark.
 
OK maybe this will help with my dilemma
the first picture is the setup. Notice the wife is pi**ed off and no longer wants to be my model so have to do with a cushion.........not the first time that has happened
1/. View attachment 13655
2/. This is what I am getting with 1/400 f4 ISO 100.....remember I am trying to get a black background.
View attachment 13658
3/. This is what I want for a background but I am shooting with 1/400 f16 ISO 100....note I was taught to not go over 1/200 but when I do everything is bright
View attachment 13659
I still feel that there is still not enough light on the model/cushion and I am at max f stop f16
Help this is driving me crazy
 
The background CANNOT photograph as black with that arrangement.
If anything, your umbrella is closer to the background than it is to your subject... and it's a shoot through umbrella that spreads the light where you don't want it to go anyway....

To get some kind of result.
1. Move your subject further away from the background.
2. If you want this sidelit/rimlit effect, change to (ideally) a softbox or (just about adequate) a REFLECTIVE umbrella and place it at the side of your subject but slightly behind, and pointing forwards a bit so that no light from it can reach the background.
3. Increase your flashgun power so that any ambient light falling either on your front subject (wife) or rear subject (background) isn't affected by ambient light
4. Make sure that your camera is set to MANUAL

Your maximum f/stop won't be f/16, or anywhere near it. That might be your minimum though.
 
OK a few things.

1. Never p*** your wife off, her withholding privileges is never good

More seriously though this isn't working for you because (I think) in no particular order

2. You need to understand the inverse square law. Once you get this you'll see that you need to move your flash mush closer to your subject and your subject further from the BG. This will mean that a proportionally much higher level of light falls on the subject
3. Probably increase flash power. And stop down your lens to compensate. Coupled tine 2 this will make the biggest difference.

If you can get a light meter use one. combine 2 and 3 and measure how much more light there is falling on your subject then the BG

4. A shoot through umbrella is not ideal for this. Light spills everywhere with them. Use a modifier (like a gridded soft box maybe) that gives much better control.
5. A speed light also isn't ideal. If you can get a studio head use that instead.However its possible needs must with the speed light

Cheers

H

edit Garry types faster
 
Last edited:
Garry Edwards said:
The background CANNOT photograph as black with that arrangement.
If anything, your umbrella is closer to the background than it is to your subject... and it's a shoot through umbrella that spreads the light where you don't want it to go anyway....

To get some kind of result.
1. Move your subject further away from the background.
2. If you want this sidelit/rimlit effect, change to (ideally) a softbox or (just about adequate) a REFLECTIVE umbrella and place it at the side of your subject but slightly behind, and pointing forwards a bit so that no light from it can reach the background.
3. Increase your flashgun power so that any ambient light falling either on your front subject (wife) or rear subject (background) isn't affected by ambient light
4. Make sure that your camera is set to MANUAL

Your maximum f/stop won't be f/16, or anywhere near it. That might be your minimum though.
Click to expand...
Gary I am using the pop up flash to trigger the SB910 but I have no idea what setting to set the SB910 too.
Right now the SB910 is set to;
View attachment 13660The camera is set to
Built in flash - -
Group A M 1/4
Group B - -
Channel 1
 
Neil, get the Speedliter's Handbook by Syl Arena. Excellent book, easy to read, and covers everything to do with speedlites work (and the lighting principles apply equally to studio heads). It's Canon-centric but the Nikon system works exactly the same http://www.amazon.co.uk/Speedliters...02496552&sr=1-1&keywords=speedliters+handbook

Meanwhile, if you want a dark and shadowy low-key portrait, a shoot-through brolly is probably the worst possible weapon. But for a soft-shadowed and brighter look, it's just the thing.
 
Just had a brain fart but when I took those pictures last night the room was pretty dark like no real ambient light..........maybe I should have had the living room lights on??
 
ndwgolf said:
Just had a brain fart but when I took those pictures last night the room was pretty dark like no real ambient light..........maybe I should have had the living room lights on??
Click to expand...

No. Under normal circumstances, the flash will be way brighter than normal room lights. And that's how you want it - only the light from the flash/s creating the image, all under your control.

I posted this on another current thread, some fundamentals of lighting that always apply.

- Almost always, just one light will be doing the lion's share of the important work - the key light - even if you are using multiple lights. Other lights are subordinate, for background, hair, fill-in or other effects.
- The larger the light source, the softer/lighter the shadows. Size is relative to distance, so a big softbox used further away casts progressively darker/harder shadows, and vice versa.
- Brightness reduces rapidly with distance, closely following the Inverse Square Law. ISL says that when the distance from light source to subject is doubled, the brightness is reduced to one quarter - a reduction of two stops.
- Light reflects (bounces) off a subject at the same angle it strikes, like a snooker ball off the cushion. Bright specula highlights follow this rule, and it's also used to position reflectors or when bouncing flash off walls/ceiling.
 
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