Nikon 80-200 poor with a filter on?

Auraomega

Auraomega

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On a whim I picked up a CPL from 7dayshop, I figured at the price it was worth a shot and to be fair it's not too bad at all... except when I use it on my 80-200 AFD.

I've tried the filter on my Tokina 11-16 and 28-70 and the results are brilliant for the price, however put it on my 80-200 and the results are just awful. (Excuse the mess, in the process of tidying up when the stuff arrived, so I just dumped everything on the table ;))

In all cases camera was on a tripod and mirror up used.

80-200 no filter:
_-4.jpg


80-200 CPL:
_-2-1.jpg


28-70 no filter:
_-2-2.jpg


28-70 CPL:
_-5.jpg


I originally tested the filter on my 80-200 as it's my sharpest 77mm lens and if the quality was good enough I was going to pick up a couple of other filters for this lens, however I'm now wondering if using any filters on this lens is a waste of time? Is this a common problem with this lens?
 
the 2nd shot looks for all the world like shake to me... perhaps from the pressing the shutter release?
 
Normally I'd agree but I was using a wireless release, even though I did do it again thinking the same. The above problem was replicable every single time. Filter off nice and sharp, filter on what appears like shake.

Edit:
While I'm at it it's probably worth mentioning I decided to manually focus too, incase it was just misfocusing (even though it doesn't look like it), using the live view you get what you see above with the filter on, take it off and it's normal.
 
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First shot is .5 second , second shot is 1 second . Is it a vr lens & did you turn off vr ?
 
I wish this lens had VR! Nope, no VR on this or my other lenses
 
Auraomega said:
I wish this lens had VR! Nope, no VR on this or my other lenses
Click to expand...

Have you tried a faster shutter to rule out camera shake ? looks like that to me :thinking:
 
Try with mirror lockup enabled, the shutter and mirror can introduce quite a lot of shake with a long lens
 
A polariser cuts 1-2 stops of light. All that's happening is with the filter, the exposure is slower. Hence shake. Could be as you move away, the floor is moving the tripod. Its definitely shake. Put it in shutter priority and choose a fast speed and try again.
 
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Mirror lockup is on (mentioned in first post).

Knocked the ISO right up, shutter speed was faster than 0.5 seconds. Still that horrible blur all over it.

Edit:
Using flash and the issue is still there. It's not shake.
 
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Auraomega said:
Mirror lockup is on (mentioned in first post).

Knocked the ISO right up, shutter speed was faster than 0.5 seconds. Still that horrible blur all over it.

Edit:
Using flash and the issue is still there. It's not shake.
Click to expand...

0.5 seconds on a lens that big is still very very slow. Even with flash.

You need to be shooting at 1/400 th or more to rule out shake.
 
TCR4x4 said:
0.5 seconds on a lens that big is still very very slow. Even with flash.

You need to be shooting at 1/400 th or more to rule out shake.
Click to expand...

:plusone:
 
The second shot is surely camera shake, especially given that in the fourth shot it's nowhere near as blurry despite having the filter on.
 
As the others have said, it's shake or movement without a doubt. I know, my library is full of such examples.

It's quite clear to me in the second photo that the view moved down and to the left (or up and to the right) during the exposure.
 
Auraomega said:
Mirror lockup is on (mentioned in first post).

Knocked the ISO right up, shutter speed was faster than 0.5 seconds. Still that horrible blur all over it.

Edit:
Using flash and the issue is still there. It's not shake.
Click to expand...

lockup and 10s delay should be prescribed for that shot. It looks like a typical shake issue.

0.5s is probably the very worst speed for getting shutter induced shake. Anything faster and it doesn't have quite as much time to vibrate during exposure, anything faster, and it can relax to the ground state so you'll see less of it.
 
1/800 with filter:
_-6.jpg


1/800 without filter:
_-2-3.jpg



Don't know what more I can do to prove to you that this isn't camera shake. I'm the first to admit that it looks like shake, and that was initially what I put it down to, but after testing and testing I get the exact same results, filter off sharp image, filter on horrible image.
 
Phil Young said:
Perhaps it was on a tripod? :thinking:
Click to expand...

You can still get shake on a tripod.


No idea what it is, the result of a cheap filter I guess. Obviously some scientiftic reason.

Buy a better filter and see what happens.
 
Do you have another filter you can try on that lens? It might be that the filter isn't aligned properly (damaged filter thread, perhaps) and you're getting some weird diffraction from the glass of the filter.
 
I'm loath to spend money on a better filter when there is nothing to say that it's not the lens itself. None of my other lenses exhibit this issue when used with the filter, and without pixel peeping it's hard to see any issues on my other lenses.

@NikkiA: I don't, not at 77mm anyway.

To be fair the only filter I'm interested in using on this lens is a soft filter so if it is a lens issue I can live with it I guess, it just rules out the use of a UV next time I go Bruntingthorpe (and that might end badly...)
 
7dayshop; apparently a rebranded filter from a bigger brand, just at a lower price. On my other lenses it's almost believable too.
 
Auraomega said:
7dayshop; apparently a rebranded filter from a bigger brand, just at a lower price. On my other lenses it's almost believable too.
Click to expand...

Could be the problem then, you need to try a Hoya or similar to compare the results, I doubt the problem is the lens.
 
Sounds odd, but the thread is ok on the lens is it, and the filter is seated properly?
 
@Martyn...
How come the filter is fine on my other lenses? Wouldn't you expect it to be a problem on all of them?

@Flash In The Pan
Very slightly, the best way I can explain it is, ironically, comparing it to shake. At f8 it's like it's being shook slightly less of a distance than at f2.8, it's still as blurry but the blur doesn't seem to cover the same distance if that makes sense?

@odd jim
Visually everything looks fine.
 
Auraomega said:
@Martyn...
How come the filter is fine on my other lenses? Wouldn't you expect it to be a problem on all of them?
Click to expand...

Different focal length could have a bearing on it ... I must say that I have never tried a CPL on anything much over 50mm so I am not sure if there is a general problem trying to use one on the longer focal length.
 
I had a similar thought, but after searching online I found people using longer lenses than my own without issue.
 
Just googling and found a similar problem HERE where it is OK on wide angle, but problem (sounds similar to yours) on telephoto.
 
It looks like shake, but I've had similar effects with cheap filters. It's only noticeable with longer lenses because they only 'see' through a small area in the centre that effectively magnifies imperfections massively. Basically, it's a rubbish filter with non-parallel surfaces or some other kind of optical unevenness.

If it is the filter, as a clincher if you rotate the filter the angle of the blur should change. Put it in live view, magnified, and you should be able to see it rotating.
 
HoppyUK said:
If it is the filter, as a clincher if you rotate the filter the angle of the blur should change. Put it in live view, magnified, and you should be able to see it rotating.
Click to expand...

You're right if it's the filter, logically this should be the case. What doesn't fill me with confidence is the fact that rotating the filter doesn't cause the blur to rotate :(

The mystery continues.
 
Auraomega said:
You're right if it's the filter, logically this should be the case. What doesn't fill me with confidence is the fact that rotating the filter doesn't cause the blur to rotate :(

The mystery continues.
Click to expand...

Haha! Well, the mystery continues, but I still wouldn't rule out the filter. They can have some very strange effects, particularly with longer lenses for the reason given.

The real clincher is with/and without filter, which you have done. And since you seem to know what you're doing and have ruled out the obvious answer of camera shake, then it's got to be 'something' to do with the filter.

I suggested rotating because when I came across a similar issue (though not as bad) it did indeed rotate with filter orientation. I'm intrigued now. Out of curiosity, if you would like me to have a go with with, drop me a PM.
 
To be fair, you've aid you're loathe to spend any more on a filter so it's a cue of getting what you pay for.

Out of interest, what's the reason you opted for CPL for this lens?
 
Auraomega said:
You're right if it's the filter, logically this should be the case. What doesn't fill me with confidence is the fact that rotating the filter doesn't cause the blur to rotate :(
Click to expand...

Surely if that's the case it points to it being a ghosted image (since the geometry of the situation doesn't change...) - what happens to the ghost if you rotate the camera through 90 degrees?
 
@HoppyUK:
Definitely, I just worry it's an issue with not just this filter, but any filter on this lens. I've checked the threads over and over and everything looks fine, but if the filter is going on slightly off-level then it would produce the same effect right? And rotating the filter wouldn't make a difference because it'd still be off-level in the same place... hmm :thinking:

@specialman:
I'm loathe to spend any more on a filter on the off chance that it's the filter and not the lens/thread/etc.

I tried it on that lens as it's, in my opinion, the best quality lens I have and would be easier to determine how much of an effect that filter had. I don't have any real intention of using it on that lens, I'm just concerned that if I do buy a filter specifically for that lens I'll end up with similar problems.

@hunnymonster:
I'll give that a shot later and see what happens.

It might be a good time to add that some close up filters I have that again work fine on my other lenses are making incredibly soft, incredibly blurry images with a strange glow to them. It might be time for me to take a trip to Jessops and ask to try a nice expensive filter out and see if the effect is the same.
 
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