Need help filming live music!

[The pokemon kid]

Hey guys and gals!

Im in need of some help. I did some filming on a golf day for a family friend and they have now asked me to film a music event involving bag pipes. The golf day was fine as it was quiet but what sort of stuff will I need to actually film a live music event correctly and what do I need to get the sound correct?

I have got:

5D MK II
7D
70-200mm f/2.8
50mm f/1.4
17-40mm f/4
10-17mm fisheye f/3.5-4.5
tripods etc...

 

[Stratman]

I can't help with the kit you'll need, but I can say my 35 years as a BBC Outside Broadcasts Video and VT Engineer tells me this kind of event is all about the sound. The best pictures you'll ever produce won't make up for poor sound. Even bagpipes.

I've no idea of your or your friend's budget, but if you'd let us know if the event is inside or outside it would help. Are they static or marching? Are you averse to hiring some good mikes and a small mixer?

 

[OwenP]

Have to agree with Stratman. You're not going to get a good sound recording
with the 5D for various reasons.
(mono, tiny onboard mic, timbre will change as you move camera etc)

Best advice is to find some one to record the sound seperately while you film and sync it up post.

 

[The pokemon kid]

They are going to be hiring out a PA system and microphones etc. they have said that I can get a few bits of what I need. any ideas on what I might need to record it separate through the PA system? Got no ideas on names etc

 

[Stratman]

Your best bet would be to take a feed of the final mix directly from the desk and record it into a laptop. Audacity is a good free recording application. Like OwenP says, sync it up in the edit. Make sure you get plenty of 'clapperboard' type events (handclaps, drum hits, any sharp transients that you can match to the pictures) to help the syncing.

When editing, ignore the pictures to start with. Concentrate on getting the sound right. Only when you're completely happy with the sound should you start on the pictures. Take plenty of cutaways (closeups, people watching, wide angles, whatever takes your fancy) to paint over the joins.

Edit to add:- However you record it, don't get too 'greedy' with the level. Make sure that it never 'goes into the red'. If it clips you can't recover it and it sounds horrible. If it's too quiet you can increase the level in the edit.

 

[OwenP]

Ok, assuming all the instruments go through a mixing desk into the PA
you could get whoever is mixing to record the show direct out of the desk.
This could be onto DAT, MiniDisk, DPR, Multitrack, or into a computer whatever you can lay your hands on.
If not all the band are going through the PA, drums & horns for instance, see if any of
your musician mates has a digital recorder. (Zoom H4, Tascam DR-07 etc)
You could use one of those to make a 'live' recording. It will be very live as
it will record a lot of room ambience as well, depending on where it's placed.

By the way, will you be shooting at 1080p? If so, don't forget you'll be
limited to about 12 mins recording at one time because of the 4GB file size limit.
May not sound much of a problem but using the audio recording techniques above
you will need to sync the audio to the footage files in an editing programme.
(Final Cut, Avid, Premiere etc)
So make sure you have plenty of memory cards and when the show starts, start
recording and don't stop until you need to! Probably around 10 mins in between songs.

P.S. remember to shoot PAL 25/50fps NOTin NTSC 30/60fps (all the stage lights will flicker if you do)

 

[OwenP]

Your best bet would be to take a feed of the final mix directly from the desk and record it into a laptop. Audacity is a good free recording application.

Agreed, Audacity is v good, also free is Reaper

Make sure you get plenty of 'clapperboard' type events (handclaps, drum hits, any sharp transients that you can match to the pictures) to help the syncing.

Syncing is quite a fiddly job if you're not used to it so make sure your camera is recording sound as a guide.
Check out DualEyes from Singular software. It takes the guide sound from your camera and the
recording from the desk, compares them, and creates a new sound file that matches your camera rushes automatically.
You can get a free 30 day trial from their website - make sure you get your install timing right for the edit!

When editing, ignore the pictures to start with. Concentrate on getting the sound right. Only when you're completely happy with the sound should you start on the pictures. Take plenty of cutaways (closeups, people watching, wide angles, whatever takes your fancy) to paint over the joins.

There speaks a soundman! As an editor of as many years I totally agree. Get the sound good and then worry about the pix.
People will put up with all sorts of dodgy camera work but if the sound is crap they'll turn off in seconds!
If there are other bands playing the night you film shoot audience shots during their sets.
The more shots from various angles the better. When people watch it they will soon spot a repeated cut away.

However you record it, don't get too 'greedy' with the level. Make sure that it never 'goes into the red'. If it clips you can't recover it and it sounds horrible. If it's too quiet you can increase the level in the edit.

your defo a noise boy... He's right as always, less is more...

 

[The pokemon kid]

Okay, This is great help guys!

I know for a fact that the bag pipes will not have any inputs, it will allow be done by the noise of the instrument... The microphones are there just so the audience can hear his voice for when he talks to them... So im thinking of a recording device that I can put near him and also then get the sound of his voice though the PA system. I will be shooting at whatever the maximum of the 7D is and then match it on the 5D... as im going to have the 7D on a close up of his face and the 5D doing the wide shot (or visa versa).

I will be taking along my CF cards (2x16gb) and Laptop. So i should have plenty of space

I will edit it together on premiere pro I have had to sync audio a few times now as I did a bands promotional video for a song a short time ago

 

[OwenP]

Happy to help.

Don't be afraid to use overkill. If you can get multiple audio recordings, the more the merrier. (that goes for video too)
Pick and choose the best one.

Will your Bagpiper be playing a concert or a couple of tunes? Don't forget regardless of video resolution you are still
limited to 4GB recording limit. Fail to plan, plan to fail, blah, blah
(sorry about the PA/Band waffle - I hear PA, I think band!)

 

[Stratman]

Great advice from OwenP.

I'm a vision lad. I spent around twenty or so years as a vision engineer, then went to VT where I had to get to grips with sound.

You may be able to pick up a mini disc recorder for next to nothing these days. They still do everything they did when they were the dog's dangly bits

 

[SimonUK]

If you can take a second mix from their PA, in a Zoom H1 or somthing like that, then you should be good to go. I assume their getting people in to Man the Desk and everything?

 

[The pokemon kid]

Okay, Been out talking to the friends and they can get their hands on like 3/4 zoom h1/2/4's.

I have planned to set one up on the PA system for his voice through the mic, then one for the crowd and one set up just in front of the bagpipes as he will be sitting for most of it... The fourth with just be there to pick up extra clapping etc if there is one available...

Sound like a good plan to you lot?