My image in a 2012 calendar?

wippers

wippers

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Gareth
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Hi All - Just looking for a bit of advice really about an email I've received this morning. Should I just send the image or do you think this is a way of getting free images for a profit making organisation? :shrug:
I know this is only a short list so the image may not even get chosen.

"You entered the Great British Photograph Competition last year and I am contacting you with regards to your image that you submitted. The image I am referring to is attached
I may like to use your photograph for inclusion in the Derbyshire life Calendar 2012 we are to choose from a short list of entries and am wondering if you have a copy of the image 3meg or above that you could send to me and if you would be happy for me to feature your image; we may have to crop any images to fit the correct size. I hope this would be ok.
I also require your full name and the exact place the image was taken as we do like to acknowledge each image details.
If we are to feature your image we would send you 10 copies of the calendar as a gift to give out to friends and family as you wish, so I would require a current address when returning your 3meg image, if you do not have the correct size then we may not be able to feature it in the calendar."

This is the image in question which I don't regard as one of my better ones:

4293327298_ec55b11fb9_z.jpg


Thanks for taking the time to read all of this. :thumbs:

Gareth
 
Not being funny here, but what dod the competition rules say about photo useage should you win/be placed/ or they wanted to use your pic?
Usually it's written about using to promote the competition/company etc.

Is it this competition? If so you weren't one of the finalists
http://www.greatbritishlife.co.uk/article/the-great-british-photograph-competition--finalists-26874/

The rules for that comp state:
http://www.greatbritishlife.co.uk/article/great-british-photograph-terms-and-conditions-20982/

8. Use of Images
By entering the competition, Participants grant Archant Ltd and its Competition Partners an irrevocable, non-exclusive, worldwide royalty-free license to reproduce, publicly display, distribute, publicly perform and create derivative works from their Submitted Materials, in all media, solely in connection with the administration, judging and promotion of the Great British Photograph 2010 competition. Submitted Materials will NOT be used for commercial advertising purposes and will NOT be altered without the prior consent of the author, except as necessary to display or distribute them in a particular medium or format. Permissible uses of Submitted Materials shall include their reproduction, distribution and display in exhibitions, multimedia presentations, and printed materials related to or promoting the Great British Photograph 2010 and/or its sponsorship by Great British Life, Photography Monthly and their Competition Partners. Great British Life, Photography Monthly and its Competition Partners shall have the right to grant sublicenses to the press and publicity agents in connection with the promotion of the Award or the competition. Great British Life, Photography Monthly and its Competition Partners also shall have the right to make the Submitted Materials available to third-parties for viewing on computer screens and other media devices, and for storage in electronic format, for personal, non-commercial uses only.
 
To be honest I'm not sure which competition this was. I don't even remember entering one. :D:thinking:

It looks to me like an independent company are looking for free images to use in a profit making calendar. :shrug:

I could always send a watermarked one for now and see if it makes the final list?

This is the predicament of the amateur photographer - it would be really nice to have my image in a calendar which is a great sense of achievement, but there a couple of issues: one being I don't like the idea of people making money out of free images, and secondly, it makes a mockery of the pro photography industry who make a living out of image sales etc.
 
Drop them an email to remind you which competition as you entered a few last year?
 
Chris Barton's recently been campaigning successfully against Archant Life's competition rules which is probably why there appears to be a contradiction here. The terms you signed up to mean that Archant can do whatever they like with your image without your consent but Chris's work means that they are now being far more sensitive to the rights of the people who submit work to them. I still don't think you'll get any money for your pains, whereas they of course will by publishing and selling the calendar with your work in it. It's your call whether you are happy to be ripped-off in this way.
 
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You could ask for the cash equivalent of ten calenders?
 
I think it's a case of me being a bit naive when I first started a couple of years ago and entering without checking the T&C's.

I'm going to send them a watermarked image and see what happens. On this occasion, I would rather have my image in a calendar than not if it looks like I won't get any payment for my efforts regardless. Lesson learned perhaps.
 
10 copies of a calendar, it's got to be a minimum of £5 per calendar So I guess that's your payment.

Can you use that in any way as in "I'm an award winning photographer in a calendar - here have a copy..." ;)
 
Just make sure what you are giving away,they can only use the photo once,and you keep all copyright.

Its just weather you think 10 free calenders,is a good enought payment :)
 
The only up side would seem to be 10 calenders (solves the Christmas list :D) and getting your name out there, do you consider that payment enough, 100% of nothing is nothing otherwise.
 
artyman said:
The only up side would seem to be 10 calenders (solves the Christmas list :D) and getting your name out there, do you consider that payment enough, 100% of nothing is nothing otherwise.
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I think that sums it up. It's a chance to get my name out and about and my image in a calendar hopefully. If I didn't allow usage of the image, then they'd probably use a different image for free anyway so I see it as a bit of free advertising (and Christmas wrapped up in one go!). :D
 
'Getting your name out' on a credit will do you no good whatsoever. No-one cares who took the pics. The only thing that matters is your name on a cheque.
 
I would let them have it and hopefully get it printed as your first published work (I'm guessing that part).

It'd be something to be proud of and may be a kick start to you selling your work through another stream.

Like you say, they'll only use somebody else's photo for free otherwise.
 
Tell me why you think giving work away for free will help you sell work in the future?!
 
I'm not up on photography sales, but in other areas people are often advised to do some free work (such as a website for a charity, for example) to help get a portfolio of 'published' works out; which of course you don't tell people were freebies.
 
Charity may be different - but so far as I can tell this is a commercial organsation making money out of photographers who are happy to give their pictures away for free. It does them no good and it does the industry no good - it only benefits the publisher. In 40 years I have never got any work from a credit! These people prey on amateur egos.
 
Well done Gareth, and hope it gets published.

At the end of the day, it's what YOU want for YOUR image from the whole situation that counts, so as long as YOU get a satisfactory resolution then fair play and congrats! :clap:

Ignore the miserable b****rds, it's not their image.
 
well let's just hope that Gareth never wants to go pro - or even make enough money from photography to buy some new gear - because he'll never do it because of people like him - and then he'll become a miserale b*stard as well!
 
i can see where awp coming from,afterall what sell an calender,but the pic inside,why should the photographer not get payed,i wonder how many other people in the chain are doing it foc :)
 
awp said:
well let's just hope that Gareth never wants to go pro - or even make enough money from photography to buy some new gear - because he'll never do it because of people like him - and then he'll become a miserale b*stard as well!
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+1 Never undervalue your work!
 
Think the moral is read the T&C's and to know it's managed by a reputable company or organisation and learn as you grow in experience. I entered and won a slot in my local council's calander with the proceeds being donated to charity, they stated they would only use the image in the calendar, any literature and their receiption galllery which was promoting the calendar. By the way I only got one calendar, how tight!
 
10 calendars might equate to, say, £80 value to you, if you want the calendars that is....

But to the publisher the cost of 10 calendars is peanuts, that's about maybe £15, and they would probably have got written off unsold at the end of the year anyway! You can guarantee the printers will be charging top money for the job!

As a general rule I would not advise photographers to give away their work. One picture in one calendar certainly won't give you a foot in the door of professional photography - not even a toenail clipping.

But I can understand the temptation you feel.
 
awp said:
'Getting your name out' on a credit will do you no good whatsoever. No-one cares who took the pics. The only thing that matters is your name on a cheque.
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From my experience this isn't the case...I entered a calendar competition a couple of years ago with Trinity House, mainly as I believe they're a good cause, was fortunate enough to win and have since had quite a bit of business as a direct result.

I'm not a fan at all of the rights grab competitions and don't enter but always consider an approach which I think might result in future business, whilst it might not be significant today building up your profile may prove very beneficial in future, I don't think it's always about making a quick buck, although the British business mentality does generally go with that idea!!...obviously you need to decide if this is the case here.

Just my thoughts

Simon
 
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Cheers for all the comments.
As expected, the pro photography brigade don't appreciate us amateurs giving images away, which I can understand in some respect and I know it's their livelyhood. But my images are there to do with what I wish. If I believe it may be beneficial for the future to allow a free usage on this occasion, then that's my decision to make. As we can see from the responses, some have had positives from a similar situation. :shrug:

I'll go and get some popcorn now and sit back. ;)
 
wippers said:
Cheers for all the comments.
As expected, the pro photography brigade don't appreciate us amateurs giving images away, which I can understand in some respect and I know it's their livelyhood. But my images are there to do with what I wish. If I believe it may be beneficial for the future to allow a free usage on this occasion, then that's my decision to make. As we can see from the responses, some have had positives from a similar situation. :shrug:

I'll go and get some popcorn now and sit back. ;)
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Too right, it is entirely your decision at the end of the day. we can only give our opinions.

My opinion is that you go for it, as they say 'Nothing venturened, nothing gained'

You MAY Not get anything from doing this but you DEFINITELY won't get anything from not doing it.
 
BrandonDouglas said:
Too right, it is entirely your decision at the end of the day. we can only give our opinions.

My opinion is that you go for it, as they say 'Nothing venturened, nothing gained'

You MAY Not get anything from doing this but you DEFINITELY won't get anything from not doing it.
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+1

Unless they are going to put at the bottom of your picture that they didn't pay for it... :thinking:
 
Just a comparison with another profession, do you Wayne Rooney or Frank Lampard get annoyed by amateurs playing football for free and worry about them taking their place... If the professionals are good enough then they will sell their photos because people are willing to pay for quality, if not then they can't complain if an amateur takes a photo as good as they can and don't wish to charge because they only do it as a hobby.

In other words, if a professional is good enough they shouldn't need to worry about what amateurs do.

Not sure if that makes sense to people but I know what I mean.
 
Sadly, people are not prepared to pay for quality - not all the people anyway. However the point is the publisher, the printer - and everyone else who is working on this calendar will be getting paid. Only the photographers seem to get ripped off - becuase the publishers know some ams can't resist an ego trip. That is the sad part.
 
awp said:
some ams can't resist an ego trip. That is the sad part.
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In my case it has nothing to do with an ego trip. It's nice to have recognition for your time and effort. Simple.
It seems to me that the only "sad part" are the pro's who fear the loss in earnings to an amateur. If they are good enough, then they'll have no problem selling their images regardless of what the amateurs are doing.
 
wippers said:
In my case it has nothing to do with an ego trip. It's nice to have recognition for your time and effort. Simple.
It seems to me that the only "sad part" are the pro's who fear the loss in earnings to an amateur. If they are good enough, then they'll have no problem selling their images regardless of what the amateurs are doing.
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Thumbs up
 
If id sent you the email asking to use it and you asked for money id just look elsewhere for another applicants photo to use for free. Just my opinion. You might get nothing and no feature in a calendar :-)
 
awp said:
Tell me why you think giving work away for free will help you sell work in the future?!
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Sometimes when you"interview" for a job you need to provide information of your experience and proof of your ability. For sales people I will ask to see P60's, for a photographer I'd want to see where you have been published. Not everybody is a professional, not everybody expects to make enough money out of their work to sustain a living.

Professionals have face the fact that some "users" won't pay, and that's no reason for amateurs not to look for publication with a credit.

Steve
 
awp said:
Sadly, people are not prepared to pay for quality - not all the people anyway. However the point is the publisher, the printer - and everyone else who is working on this calendar will be getting paid. Only the photographers seem to get ripped off - becuase the publishers know some ams can't resist an ego trip. That is the sad part.
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I nearly fell off my chair in laughter at that, sorry but read through the threads on here it tends to be the pros stomping around with the Ego's lol.

Whilst I appreciate your business maybe selling images its not everyone else's intention to turn something they do as a hobby into a profession and are more than happy to be just credited and allow others to enjoy THEIR image. Most competitions are aimed at amateur togs who don't care about what will happen with the image as there main aim isn't to make a buck from it, they just enjoy taking photos and are happy for others to see them.
 
Sorry - but most of these competitions are aimed at making the publishers money by grabbing pictures for free. I don't see any merit in that for any photographer.
 
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