My First Paid work.

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markiemc13

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314
Name
Mark
Edit My Images
Yes
Im Happy! :D

I recently emailed a sports photography company called DE Photo, after some guidance from a mate.
They were impressed with my work, and I have secured some work with them.

My Only issues are:

-Transport (As im only 16 I can't drive yet)
-Big lenses (I sold all mine)

(Suggestions for the above would be appreciated) :help:

The general payment is £60 a day (for around 5/6 hours work)
I have to aim to take between 700-1000 Images that can be sold on site, and no editing is done.
 
I wouldn't be very happy on £60 for 1,000 images! They're taking advantage.
 
I think they go off a day rate, rather than per image.
Its about £10 per hour, and Its only starting rate (Im promised it will go up)
And....Its the first bit of money I've EVER made from photography
 
I don't care how old you are, if your images are good enough for them to sell then you are being ripped off big style.
 
I can think of something else they are taking also! Not so polite!
 
My advice, avoid DE Photo like the plague, they simply do not care about the rubbish they produce and sell at extortionate prices, they do event photography and many, many of their togs are like yourself, ie budding amateurs.

ive seen these guys in action at local footy and rugby galas and its deffo quantity over quality.

IMHO if you want to be taken seriously as a sports photographer give these guys a wide berth or at least dont be silly enough to tell anyone you ever worked for them



markiemc13 said:
Im Happy! :D

I recently emailed a sports photography company called DE Photo, after some guidance from a mate.
They were impressed with my work, and I have secured some work with them.

My Only issues are:

-Transport (As im only 16 I can't drive yet)
-Big lenses (I sold all mine)

(Suggestions for the above would be appreciated) :help:

The general payment is £60 a day (for around 5/6 hours work)
I have to aim to take between 700-1000 Images that can be sold on site, and no editing is done.
Click to expand...
 
Gary Coyle said:
My advice, avoid DE Photo like the plague, they simply do not care about the rubbish they produce and sell at extortionate prices, they do event photography and many, many of their togs are like yourself, ie budding amateurs.

ive seen these guys in action at local footy and rugby galas and its deffo quantity over quality.

IMHO if you want to be taken seriously as a sports photographer give these guys a wide berth or at least dont be silly enough to tell anyone you ever worked for them
Click to expand...

Cheers Gary, I need to buy that kit somehow
And whats better than doing what you love, I see your point though! :thumbs:
 
It doesn't get much worse than £60 a day for 1,000 images - so YES it is that bad.
 
Theyre run by John Wayne and Audey Murphy, ive seen them sell images OOF for £10 for a 7x5 inch, they will sell every single image on your card, ive seen them crop into players 100 yards away and try to sell them at 10x8 inch, they look decent in the viewing area but some of the stuff is so pixelated its not true
 
hmmmm....
you got to see my point of view with wanting money for my gear though?
 
IMHO if you want to be taken seriously as a sports photographer give these guys a wide berth or at least dont be silly enough to tell anyone you ever worked for them
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You seriously need to read the above quote again, i think you missed it first time round.
 
markiemc13 said:
hmmmm....
you got to see my point of view with wanting money for my gear though?
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Youre 16 for christs sake, with all due respect you need to learn to swim before jumping off the high board and drowning, nobody on here will give you anything but good advice.

Dozens of young hopefuls like yourself have learned massive amounts from guys on here with years and years of experience, i bet you there isnt one who would reccomend you take the route youre going down

Suicide.
 
No, I didn't!
Please look at it like this - All you want to do in life is be a sports photographer,
Your saving up for kit you can't afford for years. (I currently get £250 per month a P/T Job)
And then your offered a job shooting sports for money.
All I thought was Kit!
It isn't what I want to do forever (I want to work for an agency).
its just temporary to pay for kit
 
But youre still not listening, no agency ever will give you any work in the future if youve worked for these guys, they are seriously that bad.

I doubt very much if you will get more than 3 or 4 assignments from them in a year, is £240 really going to buy you the new kit you desire, it wont even buy you an extender, is £240 worth the bad rep you'll probably never shake off.

Bear one thing in mind, DE are and will continue to exploit you, they dont give a toss about you and as soon as the next aspiring youngster comes along who is willing to do it for £10 less, you will be history
 
Cheers Gary,
The job was actually recommended by a sports tog on here that we all know.
He has done work with them, And said it's what started him off basically.
He now shoots Premier league football.
Im definately going to take your advice and look into the Job more.
But I have definately been put off :D
 
I can see where the young lad is coming from, at that age I would be excited to pop my professional cherry. Yes, its taking the mick with the pay per photo I suppose but maybe just treat it as gaining experience for the love of taking pictures and covering your expenses? In true teen fashion it sounds like he has made his mind up already anyway!
 
Chr1stof said:
I can see where the young lad is coming from, at that age I would be excited to pop my professional cherry. Yes, its taking the mick with the pay per photo I suppose but maybe just treat it as gaining experience for the love of taking pictures and covering your expenses? In true teen fashion it sounds like he has made his mind up already anyway!
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To be honest im having second thoughts, Gary is a well established Pro,
And i would never pass his opinion! :nono:
 
Im not saying there arent good togs who have worked for them, i personally know 2 in my area who worked for them and both are now in the wilderness and havent found work since, both were full time professionals who were staff togs who got laid off through the recession, they needed to get money and thought DE was a short term solution, they were wrong.

I suppose you could trial them, they are franchises so will have different operators working in different areas and you might get lucky.

However in the end though £60 for a days work and 700-1000 photos is still exploitation however you dress it up
 
I don't really want to take the risk now!
But...Am I in my rights to ask for more money :gag:
 
I should just add that the guys on here are obviously experienced in these matters and offer good advice. Im just saying I can appreciate what it must feel like to be offered your first paid work, especially at your age. I think they are just saying you may be taken advantage of by these guys. I know nothing of the business as such, would it really affect his prospects in the years to come by working for this outfit? Maybe just do it then never admit to it (like making a "special interest film for adults" lol). Best wishes in whatever you decide.
 
With regards to the exploitation by the way, in my game (construction) there are guys of all ages working for free just to get experience and get their foot under the door for a job.
I know 16 year old kids who work for £30 per day from 8am to 6 or 7pm. Different business i know, just to get a bit of perspective and comparison. Thats why I get annoyed when people slate all youngsters as lazy chavs and so on but thats another matter!
 
markiemc13 said:
I don't really want to take the risk now!
But...Am I in my rights to ask for more money :gag:
Click to expand...

Of course you are Mark, lets say they sold 50 of your photos at £10 each, thats £500 from your photos alone, they are making a 1000% mark up on what they pay you

i know its a risk on their part as they might only sell 2o of your images but its a very well calculated risk.

As far as i understand they dont allow you to work "on the side" so to speak so you might also have deductions to come from your pay.

if its something you are going to do then theres no harm in asking for what you think you and your images are worth.
 
Chr1stof said:
I should just add that the guys on here are obviously experienced in these matters and offer good advice. Im just saying I can appreciate what it must feel like to be offered your first paid work, especially at your age. I think they are just saying you may be taken advantage of by these guys. I know nothing of the business as such, would it really affect his prospects in the years to come by working for this outfit? Maybe just do it then never admit to it (like making a "special interest film for adults" lol). Best wishes in whatever you decide.
Click to expand...

Best advice i ever gave a young aspiring tog was to contact his local/regional paper and ask if there was any weekend work experience going, he did and for a year or so tagged along with the staffers covering footy/cricket/footy and is now 5 years later working as a full time staff tog in Wolverhampton and he hasn't had to spend a single penny on kit and he uses 2 x D3S a 400mm f/2.8, a 70-200 f/2.8 and all the rest
 
DE Photo donot have the best reputations in event photography and they are all franchises. My advice to you would be to take any work offered and use it as a ladder. Last week I was with a young lad who couldnt drive so had to bring his mother as chaufer. His pay for the day was a lot more than DE's rate and for less hours. OK its not every weekend as DE may be but get the experience and look around at who's doing what.

Event photography may not be your ultimate direction but try and grab a few images for a portfolio and once you have that move on. Not every 16yr old has two pro bodies and lenses up 400f2.8!
 
Gary Coyle said:
Of course you are Mark, lets say they sold 50 of your photos at £10 each, thats £500 from your photos alone, they are making a 1000% mark up on what they pay you

i know its a risk on their part as they might only sell 2o of your images but its a very well calculated risk.

As far as i understand they dont allow you to work "on the side" so to speak so you might also have deductions to come from your pay.

if its something you are going to do then theres no harm in asking for what you think you and your images are worth.
Click to expand...

I never thought of it like that, They are making some money!
 
snapzz said:
DE Photo donot have the best reputations in event photography and they are all franchises. My advice to you would be to take any work offered and use it as a ladder. Last week I was with a young lad who couldnt drive so had to bring his mother as chaufer. His pay for the day was a lot more than DE's rate and for less hours. OK its not every weekend as DE may be but get the experience and look around at who's doing what.

Event photography may not be your ultimate direction but try and grab a few images for a portfolio and once you have that move on. Not every 16yr old has two pro bodies and lenses up 400f2.8!
Click to expand...

Thanks, Good advice:thumbs:
 
markiemc13 said:
I never thought of it like that, They are making some money!
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Assuming they sell that many and dont forget costs. Wages, fuel, investment into franchise, commission paid to event, commission paid to get the event (from DE), cost of prints etc.

I've been to many similar events to these and some just bomb. The last one I attended I made just £10 profit after everyone had been paid.On that day my assitant earned more than me. But there are good events to be had just dont know which they are. Event photography is not always about turning up ready to count the money!

At the same time you could invest several thousands to buy pro spec equipment, turn up at a footie match, surrounded by Getty, PA, AI etc get better shots than them but nothing used. Cost of the day may only be fuel but which would be the most profitable, that or a day with DE?
 
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60 quid a day at 16.. who cares what they sell for..just dont put your name to them and dont tell anyone who your workign for.. grab the money if its your only avenue for more kit..

Dont get sucked in.. You use them for your ends.. dont let them use you..

To others..... hes 16 with no car.. his options are limited and he desperatly needs to make some money for gear... I say go for it but keep shtum... get the money for kit and move on :) I also agree wiht what chris there is saying.. 16 and giving it a go.. a part time job already and now this.. and he has a clear direction in life... wish all 16 yr olds where like this..
 
Great post Kipax! I got slated for charging too little for doing an equestrian event, yet I gained fantastic experience and earnt a decent hourly rate doing it.

If this lad just uses it to gain experience then it will be worthwhile for him. Good luck to the OP......
 
Gary Coyle said:
But youre still not listening, no agency ever will give you any work in the future if youve worked for these guys, they are seriously that bad.

I doubt very much if you will get more than 3 or 4 assignments from them in a year, is £240 really going to buy you the new kit you desire, it wont even buy you an extender, is £240 worth the bad rep you'll probably never shake off.

Bear one thing in mind, DE are and will continue to exploit you, they dont give a toss about you and as soon as the next aspiring youngster comes along who is willing to do it for £10 less, you will be history
Click to expand...

This is the biggest load of balls I've ever heard Gary. Sure, there are bad apples out there.. but I have worked for two franchises and continue to have a good relationship (much to the point that they're lucky to get 200 images a day out of me - I am being paid a lot more though ;)) with them. Rarely do a days work for them now though as I'm working for an agency :shrug:

The two I worked for did value my abilities and paid accordingly, and I can assure you no low quality images were ever sold when I was working with them. The second of the two were new when I got in with them.. and therefore I very much trained them on the photography front 'in the field' as it were.. so I know they're only knocking out worthwhile images.

I do agree, £60 ain't great to be going with.. but after a couple of jobs if Mark has proved himself then he can either ask for more money to reflect that or move on if he isn't feeling valued. It's all part of the experience of becoming self employed, and learning to value yourself is one of the most important things I ever did.

It's all very well your friend having the use of all that gear with no outlay - but we know how insecure staff jobs are becoming.. I'd rather own my own gear than end up skint, out of a job and gear-less one day :)

I do normally respect your opinion highly, but if I'm honest there does seem to be a sounding of sour grapes or a bad personal experience somewhere? :shrug:

Edit - I've worked for a few different events companies.. and to be honest, none will make you a millionaire.. and yes, most will try and walk over you, but linking back it's all part of the learning experience :) A solely equestrian company 'demanded' at least 6 shots per horse, with upto 250 horses per day.. and paid peanuts. DE are a breath of fresh air in comparison :)
 
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purpleclouds said:
This is the biggest load of balls I've ever heard Gary. Sure, there are bad apples out there.. but I have worked for two franchises and continue to have a good relationship (much to the point that they're lucky to get 200 images a day out of me - I am being paid a lot more though ;)) with them. Rarely do a days work for them now though as I'm working for an agency :shrug:

The two I worked for did value my abilities and paid accordingly, and I can assure you no low quality images were ever sold when I was working with them. The second of the two were new when I got in with them.. and therefore I very much trained them on the photography front 'in the field' as it were.. so I know they're only knocking out worthwhile images.

I do agree, £60 ain't great to be going with.. but after a couple of jobs if Mark has proved himself then he can either ask for more money to reflect that or move on if he isn't feeling valued. It's all part of the experience of becoming self employed, and learning to value yourself is one of the most important things I ever did.

It's all very well your friend having the use of all that gear with no outlay - but we know how insecure staff jobs are becoming.. I'd rather own my own gear than end up skint, out of a job and gear-less one day :)

I do normally respect your opinion highly, but if I'm honest there does seem to be a sounding of sour grapes or a bad personal experience somewhere? :shrug:

Edit - I've worked for a few different events companies.. and to be honest, none will make you a millionaire.. and yes, most will try and walk over you, but linking back it's all part of the learning experience :) A solely equestrian company 'demanded' at least 6 shots per horse, with upto 250 horses per day.. and paid peanuts. DE are a breath of fresh air in comparison :)
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Agree completely with you Phil :)

Mark 60 quid might not be much but its a start so i say go for it, use it as practice to hone and perfect your workflow and find out what works best for you. The most important aspect of your progression to the level you want is practice practice and more practice.

Remember the basics of straight horizons, no missing arms or legs clean backgrounds (where possible) and the rest will fall into place.

Once you have gained the experience from a few of these jobs you will be in a far stronger position to handle the challenge and pressure of shooting for an "Agency"

Take the time to get your work to a consistently high standard with your workflow nailed and shooting for an agency won't seem such a huge step up.
 
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