Moral Question.................sheep worrying

admirable

admirable

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You are happily walking your dog when it takes off, not unusual, to find 24 hours later images on the news prove without doubt it has killed three sheep and as a result of it's actions ten other sheep have to be put down.

What would you do?

Turn it ? admit guilt?
 
How do you know it was your dog? Might have been another dog after you walked away
 
Thought this was going to be about the Welsh :exit::D
(Here's one of my favourite YouTube videos):

Hopefully you've the guts to own up and pay for the sheep and any lost/orphaned lambs. No one will kill your dog - farmers know these things happen and wish they didn't but on the whole they do realise things go wrong sometimes. If you're full of remorse and offer full compensation (and go round with a bottle of whisky or something too).

And, in the future, you'll know where you have to use a lead :)

As a footnote, I might be wrong but I'm assuming it's your dog and difficulties - apologies if it's a neighbour or someone else.
 
I think it's a trick. The first 3 sheep weren't really dead and they caused the genuine deaths of the other 10 sheep. The dog was a patsy.
 
Ditto Ruth's statement wtf would anyone be walking a dog off the lead, near farmland at this time of year.
 
Just ask my son what he would do


Go shop to buy more mint sauce ;)
 
I'd suggest you admit guilt and duly compensate the farmer, then make sure for ever more that you have your dog under full control when ever there is the remote chance of it being near any lifestock
 
If the compensation is quite high your home insurance might be able to pay or perhaps if you have pet insurance?
 
We live almost next to a country park, where there are sheep in some fields and beef cattle in others. There are signs all over the place TELLING owners of dogs to keep their dogs on leads - do they listen?
NO!
My sympathies are with the farmers on this.
 
EdwardL said:
If the compensation is quite high your home insurance might be able to pay or perhaps if you have pet insurance?
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Your home insurance would in no way cover compensation due to a criminal act, which failing to keep your dog under control is.
This isn't a question of morals (and whose morals anyway?), it's a question of sense.
 
It's morals in the same way that choosing to steal or not steal is morals, because regardless of the suffering sheep, the farmer has lost property. Also if it's a criminal act then there should be legal consequences.

Probably best to assume the OP was not responsible for the hypothetical dog in question unless they definitely confess it was theirs.
 
viv1969 said:
Your home insurance would in no way cover compensation due to a criminal act, which failing to keep your dog under control is.
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I don't know - that's my honest answer to this. If I drive, not paying proper attention, into a petrol pump I'd expect my insurance company to pay the garage for all loses suffered - and then sting me for the next few years on my premiums lol

In another example, my wife has a horse and third party insurance so if her horse causes damage then the insurance will pay out. An example could be the horse kicking a car and causing damage. This could be argued as being criminal damage, especially if there is no one in the car at the time and someone sees that my wife is not in complete control of her horse! Hypothetical, but possible and hopefully it won't be a reality.

Re the part of your post that I haven't quoted, I'm in full agreement with that - especially the common sense of which many people are sadly lacking these days! :)

And I don't want to get into an argument with the first part because, as I say, I don't know but surely that's the point of insurance?
 
EdwardL said:
I don't know - that's my honest answer to this. If I drive, not paying proper attention, into a petrol pump I'd expect my insurance company to pay the garage for all loses suffered - and then sting me for the next few years on my premiums lol

In another example, my wife has a horse and third party insurance so if her horse causes damage then the insurance will pay out. An example could be the horse kicking a car and causing damage. This could be argued as being criminal damage, especially if there is no one in the car at the time and someone sees that my wife is not in complete control of her horse! Hypothetical, but possible and hopefully it won't be a reality.

Re the part of your post that I haven't quoted, I'm in full agreement with that - especially the common sense of which many people are sadly lacking these days! :)

And I don't want to get into an argument with the first part because, as I say, I don't know but surely that's the point of insurance?
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Absolutely. All valid points, and surely that's why, when you make a claim, all of the circumstances are assessed by the insurer.
And one of those circumstances could be "could the incident have been foreseen, and therefore avoided"?
In the case of the dog, the answer is not only yes (by keeping the dog on a lead in an area where there is known to be livestock), but as a dog owner, it was their legal obligation to do so, and they failed in that obligation.

Really, I don't know either, but I do know from experience, that insurance companies will use any reason they can to avoid paying claims that they see as in any way contentious.
 
I'd be worried letting the dog of the lead in the first place when it has a history of running off. That is totally irresponsible.

I just wouldn't do that. As such I doubt anyone who is so irresponsible has the decency to turn themselves in.
 
The right answer is you own up but what would I do? probably not own up and make sure it never happens again.

Bear in mind that I grew up in the country and would advocate the farmers right to shoot the dog on sight and I would have no qualms with that but IF I had a dog I presume I'd love it and wouldn't want it to come to harm, hence I'd stay quiet.
 
admirable said:
You are happily walking your dog when it takes off, not unusual, to find 24 hours later images on the news prove without doubt it has killed three sheep and as a result of it's actions ten other sheep have to be put down.

What would you do?

Turn it ? admit guilt?
Click to expand...

Moral Question

Should I lie or tell the truth? as old as the hills! what does your gut tell you?
 
They had a piece on this on country file a few weeks back. I was pretty shocked at the damage your lovable family pet could cause to sheep when they get loose, if it was me I would speak to the farmer and try and agree some recompense. I would need to be certain it was my dog of course, and to be honest I think you would know, looking at the state of those sheep that had been attacked then your dog would probably show some evidence it was them.

I only ever once was caught out by my dog and farm animals and it was a few years back. Walking over a field that I had used regularly which had always been free of farm animals. As we hit the brow of the hill we came across a group of cows, mostly bullocks I think. Molly my staffie startled at coming across them started to bark and run amongst them. Needless to say they were not impressed and both me and dog had to hot foot it off the field double quick time as we were chased by a group of angry cows, only just made it too. Dogs and farm animals simply do not mix. Always now, if theres a chance at all of their being farm animals around, the dog is on the lead. Its the only sensible and responsible thing to do.
 
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EdwardL said:
I don't know - that's my honest answer to this. If I drive, not paying proper attention, into a petrol pump I'd expect my insurance company to pay the garage for all loses suffered - and then sting me for the next few years on my premiums lol

In another example, my wife has a horse and third party insurance so if her horse causes damage then the insurance will pay out. An example could be the horse kicking a car and causing damage. This could be argued as being criminal damage, especially if there is no one in the car at the time and someone sees that my wife is not in complete control of her horse! Hypothetical, but possible and hopefully it won't be a reality.

Re the part of your post that I haven't quoted, I'm in full agreement with that - especially the common sense of which many people are sadly lacking these days! :)

And I don't want to get into an argument with the first part because, as I say, I don't know but surely that's the point of insurance?
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Your arguments are poor, a better analogy would be drink driving, you smash into something when drunk and I'm pretty certain you'll find your insurance is void. Oh and by the way, a horse kicking a car is not criminal damage unless it had been trained to do so on command by the rider, I would be pretty certain in those circumstances that the insurance would be void too.
 
i wish i had a pound for every time i see dog owning arseholes (i,m a dog owner myself) who take there dogs down the beach and then let them off to chase the birds ,even worse in winter when the birds need to conserve there energy ,its just another sign of the general arrogance of people these days who seem to think that they can do whatever they like with no consequences ,i'm sure everyone will have noticed it in driving habits ,use of mobiles while driving ,speeding and big car bullying down country lanes etc .
and yes living in rural wales i ALWAYS have a pair of wellies in the car :whistle:
 
the black fox said:
i wish i had a pound for every time i see dog owning arseholes (i,m a dog owner myself) who take there dogs down the beach and then let them off to chase the birds ,even worse in winter when the birds need to conserve there energy ,its just another sign of the general arrogance of people these days who seem to think that they can do whatever they like with no consequences ,i'm sure everyone will have noticed it in driving habits ,use of mobiles while driving ,speeding and big car bullying down country lanes etc .
and yes living in rural wales i ALWAYS have a pair of wellies in the car :whistle:
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Big car bullying. I object against that generalisation. If the little cars drive on their side of the road and don't come to a halt when passing then there is no problem. Very sizeist of you :cry:
 
jakeblu said:
Your arguments are poor, a better analogy would be drink driving, you smash into something when drunk and I'm pretty certain you'll find your insurance is void. Oh and by the way, a horse kicking a car is not criminal damage unless it had been trained to do so on command by the rider, I would be pretty certain in those circumstances that the insurance would be void too.
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They would normally pay out for third party damage and injury but it would be your own car they would refuse to pay for.
 
boliston said:
They would normally pay out for third party damage and injury but it would be your own car they would refuse to pay for.
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I don't think so. I believe that driving while drunk invalidates your insurance. Possible that they may pay the third party but sue you for the money. It can depend on your insurance
 
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jakeblu said:
I don't think so. I believe that driving while drunk invalidates your insurance. Possible that they may pay the third party but sue you for the money. It can depend on your insurance
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I'm pretty sure the road traffic act would compel the insurer to pay out any reasonable third party claim which is logical as why should a third party be made to suffer when it is not their fault that the insured was drink driving.
 
@boliston Your right of course Adrian, I was just coming back to this post to amend. The road traffic act does compel insurers to pay for any third party damage or injury. My mistake
 
jakeblu said:
Your arguments are poor, a better analogy would be drink driving, you smash into something when drunk and I'm pretty certain you'll find your insurance is void. Oh and by the way, a horse kicking a car is not criminal damage unless it had been trained to do so on command by the rider, I would be pretty certain in those circumstances that the insurance would be void too.
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If you had a crash whilst drunk, the cover on your own vehicle would be void, the insurance will still pay out on any third party damage.
 
nilagin said:
If you had a crash whilst drunk, the cover on your own vehicle would be void, the insurance will still pay out on any third party damage.
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I believe I've eaten humble pie on that already :)
 
jakeblu said:
I believe I've eaten humble pie on that already :)
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:thumbs: And quite novel it is as well in OOF. Respect :thumbs:

As it was discussed on LBC this morning;

The expression derives from umble pie, which was a pie filled with the chopped or minced parts of a beast's 'pluck' - the heart, liver, lungs or 'lights' and kidneys, especially of deer but often other meats. Umble evolved from numble, (after the Frenchnomble) meaning 'deer's innards'.
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the black fox said:
i wish i had a pound for every time i see dog owning arseholes (i,m a dog owner myself) who take there dogs down the beach and then let them off to chase the birds ,even worse in winter when the birds need to conserve there energy ,its just another sign of the general arrogance of people these days who seem to think that they can do whatever they like with no consequences ,i'm sure everyone will have noticed it in driving habits ,use of mobiles while driving ,speeding and big car bullying down country lanes etc .
and yes living in rural wales i ALWAYS have a pair of wellies in the car :whistle:
Click to expand...


I prefer to think of it as ignorance, reflects better on the human race...
 
Julie1979 said:
Unfortunately it looks like the owner of this dog is missing.
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I guess that's why all dogs have to be microchipped by April this year, although I'm not sure if that's only in Scotland?
 
Peter B said:
I guess that's why all dogs have to be microchipped by April this year, although I'm not sure if that's only in Scotland?
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Nope...England too.
 
Interesting, not heard a thing about that at all....

Not that it is a big deal as ours has been chipped when he was old enough to have it done, but still amazed by the lack of communication on this...
 
It's practically unenforceable.
 
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