Micro 4/3

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Adamcski

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Okay, so I'm trying to read around these systems (seems Panasonic and Olympus are the main ones).

My daughter has taken over my M50 mkii and lenses and I'm considering purchasing another small camera to take when I go away places (I can still get at the Eos M lenses, so long as it's not the one she wants to use at that time lol).

I was considering the M6 mkii but then stumbled onto these M4/3 systems.

Can anyone point me in the direction of some decent, reliable information on these please. Are they worth considering over say the M6 Mkii for example.

I have read a little already online and accept they have smaller sensors, etc but for example on paper the G9 looks just as good, if not better than the M50 mkii.

Any guidance appreciated. I'd be looking more for pictures than video.
 
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Plenty of mFT users here at TP

www.talkphotography.co.uk

Olympus OM-D E-M5, E-M1, E-M10 - Mk1, Mk2 & Mk3 Owners Thread

Anyone have a telephone number for Olympus customer service having an issue with warranty on my TC14 sent the bloody thing of on the 18th of January the RMA is not even on the Cycleon site
www.talkphotography.co.uk www.talkphotography.co.uk

Should give you a broad insight and some 'answers' about Olympus mFT bodies ;)
 
The short version is they are generally excellent cameras with great features in a very small package, with 1 key drawback...the sensor.

The size of the sensor means the high ISO performance is not very good compared to full frame (or even some apsc) cameras. I find anything at or above 3200 iso to be too noisy for my purposes which means low light shooting is only a possibility on f1.8 lenses.

Also they have slightly lower megapixel count to most other aspc or full frame cameras, but with decent glass they should be sharp enough for most uses.
 
Andy Into The Wild said:
The short version is they are generally excellent cameras with great features in a very small package, with 1 key drawback...the sensor.

The size of the sensor means the high ISO performance is not very good compared to full frame (or even some apsc) cameras. I find anything at or above 3200 iso to be too noisy for my purposes which means low light shooting is only a possibility on f1.8 lenses.

Also they have slightly lower megapixel count to most other aspc or full frame cameras, but with decent glass they should be sharp enough for most uses.
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What a totally wild load of bo**cps statement , I often shoot at iso 6400 with my olympus omd1-mkiii with a 100-400 f6.3 lens and with proper p/p any hint of noise is not visible .. .. in fact the advantages far outweigh any negatives , size,features and functions , light weight , and that’s in both cameras and lenses. The rig mentioned above gives equal to a 200-800 in FF reach terms and weighs in at 2.kg exactly , the excellent I.b.I.s system means that I haven’t used a tripod or monopod in three years . ,and that’s without taking into account price which if properly researched makes you wonder how it’s done so cheaply .

In fact Adam go into the next section “equipment” and the go into the olympus thread , tons of comments and photos in there to show you exactly what the system is capable of and most shots can be linked back to Flickr for exif info
 
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the black fox said:
What a totally wild load of bo**cps statement , I often shoot at iso 6400 with my olympus omd1-mkiii with a 100-400 f6.3 lens and with proper p/p any hint of noise is not visible .. .. in fact the advantages far outweigh any negatives , size,features and functions , light weight , and that’s in both cameras and lenses. The rig mentioned above gives equal to a 200-800 in FF reach terms and weighs in at 2.kg exactly , the excellent I.b.I.s system means that I haven’t used a tripod or monopod in three years . ,and that’s without taking into account price which if properly researched makes you wonder how it’s done so cheaply .
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Not sure where you get the balls to try to tell me that what I find acceptable in image quality is "b*****ks" but you're pretty out of line.
 
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Andy Into The Wild said:
Not sure where you get the balls to try to tell me that what I find acceptable in image quality is "b*****ks" but you're pretty out of line.
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Quiet easy mate . It’s the truth I hear this all the time and unless your doing something totally wrong then noise should not be a issue it certainly isn’t to me and I have a vast library of photos to prove it
 
Sorry @Adamcski - as I've found increasingly on this forum recently people are passionate to the point of rudeness. But back on track...what he said is probably a good idea, to check out flickr images taken on M4/3 systems compared to other cameras which may be in your price range to see if the image quality is sufficient for your purposes. Part of the reason I have 2 systems is that the M4/3 system is good enough for general purpose stuff, and I have my D810 for more critical landscape work where the highest image quality is key. Like I said before, you have to spend thousands to get equivalent features in a camera with a better sensor.
 
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Hey folks, it's okay we all see things differently and have different experiences. I don't want to cause an argument between members, I've actually found the TP forums to be one of the nicest forums I am on. We all have different opinions, etc.

My daughter is 12 and the M50 just works for her. It's tiny, the lenses were cheap (I only have the kit lens, the 22mm and the 28mm macro in M mount, my other 2x lenses are really old EF mount ones and the 105 sigma macro). She loves it and I think for her age it's so easy to use, which helps her remain interested. No point in giving her something like my S5 as I don't understand half the stuff in there lol.

I'm looking for something I can take with me for a day out, or squeeze into the car when we go camping, Scotland, fishing or things like that. I love my S5 but it's not tiny.

I have watched a few G9 YouTube videos now so will watch some of the Olympus ones also.

Again, I appreciate the help and guidance. Let's keep TP a nice place :-)
 
I like M43 ... small light inexpensive, makes for good shooting experience. But a bit slow in poor light.

It's easy to get carried away with camera picture quality. Subject matter is paramount.
 
A bit of balance is desirable. Comparing an FF kit with M43 is pushing it, but Jeff above is pretty darn expert at getting the best out of M43 kit and indeed does have the proof of it. Horses for courses though, and for lightweight, small and capable travel/street/grab photography, you'd struggle to find a better option than the Olympus and Panasonic offerings. I have a fairly substantial Olympus kit alongside my Nikon aps-c and possibly shortly FF gear, choosing what to use depending on circumstances, bearing in mind I don't have the skill in shooting and PP that Jeff and others do.
 
Well when space isn't an issue I will use my S5, just love it. We have a few weeks away booked in Scotland and Wales this year, so daughter will take the M50 and whatever lenses she wants (she has her own little lowepro Tahoe backpack) and I will either take the S5 (which I have stashed in a lowepro protactic 450) which isn't small, or I will grab something small to take, hence the interest in these M4/3
 
Adamcski said:
...but for example on paper the G9 looks just as good, if not better than the M50 mkii.
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I can't comment on the M50 series but I've been using a G9 for three years now and I'm seriously impressed with it.

It's a bit of a brute by M43 standards but it's extremely solid and has the best electronic view finder I've come across. To be honest, I only use it with the Panasonic 100~400 and the pair make a superb action tool. If you want small, look around for Panasonic's GM5, pretty much the smallest M43 camera made but now discontinued, so a second hand purchase. I have two: one fitted with the 12~32mm standard lens and the other with the 45~100mm.

My default travel kit is these three camera/lens combinations together in a not very big bag.

The two GM5s...
Cameras Panasonic GM5 white background SL300 DSCF3760.JPG

...and all three...
Cameras Panasonic G9 and GM5 A65 DSC03472.JPG
 
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Sorry I exploded ,but Adam comes on asking for advice and the first thing I see is negative comments .. the MFT system is good I have used and owned both makes but I find the olympus has the edge in general .. and as Lindsay mentions I do have long term experience of shooting wildlife with most brands and lenses , which has stood me in good stead in changing to olympus . But taking the picture does not end there you have to be capable of turning that into a finished product ..
So Adam broaden your horizons search out photos on Flickr by brand,model and lens and then check exif
 
Adamcski said:
Okay, so I'm trying to read around these systems (seems Panasonic and Olympus are the main ones).

My daughter has taken over my M50 mkii and lenses and I'm considering purchasing another small camera to take when I go away places (I can still get at the Eos M lenses, so long as it's not the one she wants to use at that time lol).

I was considering the M6 mkii but then stumbled onto these M4/3 systems.

Can anyone point me in the direction of some decent, reliable information on these please. Are they worth considering over say the M6 Mkii for example.

I have read a little already online and accept they have smaller sensors, etc but for example on paper the G9 looks just as good, if not better than the M50 mkii.

Any guidance appreciated. I'd be looking more for pictures than video.
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For my two cents worth - the Lumix G9 is one hell of a camera, and I'd definitly say - and many agree - it's the best stills orinetated micro 4.3 camera on the marekt. It's no slouch in the video department too - 4k 60 fps and 1080 180 fps too.
 
The high iso limitations have been pretty much negated with the latest NR software.
Just tonight I edited a couple of photos with DxO PureRaw amd it does an amazing job.
My choice for general wandering around is a GX9 and Olympus 12-45.
 
Andy Into The Wild said:
The last time I checked "generally excellent cameras with great features in a small package" doesn't equal a negative comment but ok :LOL:
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But that's not what you said though......you forgot the one key drawback part.....unless you think that was a positive comment?:p
 
I shoot the Em1 MkII and the EM10 MkII.

I would recommend either depending on your needs.

It's not untrue that the ISO performance isn't as good as equivalent FF cameras but the point made about noise reduction software is a valid one. Personally, noise has never been an issue for me and I don't use NR software.

Oh, I should add that Blackfox's pictures are effin extraordinary.

Take a look at this video by Peter Forsgard:

 
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I uses any ISO up to and including 25,600 and find that the pictures are usually useable but this depends on your expectations. If you want to be able to view a high ISO (and by high I mean over 6400) pictures at high magnification on screen and expect them to compete with FF or you want to print high ISO pictures to A3 then you're better off with FF but if you want to view whole higher ISO images on screen or print A4 or less then MFT may well be good enough. In good to low light I'd expect MFT to be good enough for A3 prints and at lower ISO's I regularly crop up to 100% for screen viewing. Whatever you use MFT for I think it's certainly better than anything I ever got from 35mm film if that's any sort of measure these days. I find that the biggest issues can be with artificial light but some artificial light can make FF shots look bad too.

David Thorpe was a happy MFT user and his vids are still on Youtube...


I like these vids just for the entertainment as much as anything. I wouldn't recommend the Panasonic GX7 and in fact I'd advise people not to buy one but I do recommend the similar and newer and also RF style GX80 and GX9.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOPwMqrSTro


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98PF33R5gxk


Good luck choosing.

PS.
I like to use MFT lenses wide open to f5.6. The primes I use wide open to f4 and the f3.5-5.6 zooms normally wide open to f5.6.
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
But that's not what you said though......you forgot the one key drawback part.....unless you think that was a positive comment?:p
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Ok if it ends the discussion then I change my official position to...m4/3 cameras are perfect in every way with absolutely no drawbacks Vs other cameras on the market...hopefully everyone can be happy now :LOL:
 
Andy Into The Wild said:
Ok if it ends the discussion then I change my official position to...m4/3 cameras are perfect in every way with absolutely no drawbacks Vs other cameras on the market...hopefully everyone can be happy now :LOL:
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Expectations and usage are key here. Most people tend to view on screen these days or if they do print they print relatively small and if that's the case MFT may be fine. I find it only really shows it's weaknesses v larger systems at the extremes of ISO and viewing. Remove just one of those and many people will be perfectly happy.

Just for fun. ISO 16,000 and under artificial lighting and non heroic processing.

1wsvLni.jpg


I don't do heroic processing as I er... can't.

Another at ISO 16,000.

uqVc2MU.jpg


There's grain, but is it acceptable? It's up to the end user/viewer to decide.
 
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I'm a new 4/3 user, and I am seriously impressed.

Some background:-

Two years ago I decided to get into photography. At the time I was aware that it would be very easy to spend a lot of money on kit that didn't suit me. So I bought an entry level DSLR (EOS250) and took thousands of photos with it - mainly wildlife and birds in flight. I was convinced that I was going to end up with a full frame(FF) camera, and my main choice would be between Mirrorless and DSLR.

Last summer I realised that I would need a huge heavy lens for the wildlife stuff. There is no way that I would be able to carry such a heavy load around with a full frame camera (I have a slipped disk).
I investigated the micro 4/3 system and ended up with the Olympus EM1 MkIII, the Olympus 100-400mm F4-F6.3 and the Olympus 40-150 (eq to 80-300mm). The latter is my "carry around" lens, and weighs next to nothing. I can easily walk around all day with the camera and lens. The 100-400mm is the equivalent of a FF 800mm - but it can be used hand held!

I got the EM1 last September, and it has exceeded my expectations. My photography has come on in leaps and bounds, and I generally find the camera a joy to use. However, the menu system does take a bit of getting used to. Some people might find this a bit of a problem. The video side is technically fine, but I didn't find it easy to learn The EOS250 video just seemed to do what you expected but you really have to read the instructions with the EM1 video.

This is all highly subjective of course.
 
Well looking further into these I like the idea of a two lens kit. Keep it simple and light. That G9 comes with a 12-60 (24-120) so if I could grab another lens say this one (Panasonic 45-150mm f4.0-5.6) that would give me 90-300mm and would be perfect. I just need to read more around keeping the lenses open and see if there are any others in that kind of focal range that would be better. I don't have lenses in this range for my S5 (20-60 / 50 / 85).
 
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The GX9 might be worth a look ... smaller, lighter, check it out (if you haven't done so already).
 
Adamcski said:
Well looking further into these I like the idea of a two lens kit. Keep it simple and light. That G9 comes with a 12-60 (24-120) so if I could grab another lens say this one (Panasonic 45-150mm f4.0-5.6) that would give me 90-300mm and would be perfect. I just need to read more around keeping the lenses open and see if there are any others in that kind of focal range that would be better. I don't have lenses in this range for my S5 (20-60 / 50 / 85).
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G9 - 136.9 x 97.3 x 91.6 X 658Gm
S5 - 132.6 X 97.1 X 81.9 X 714Gm

Not exactly small.... (Since you don't consider your S5 small)
 
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d00d said:
The GX9 might be worth a look ... smaller, lighter, check it out (if you haven't done so already).
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Or maybe the E-M5 iii,. wouldn't mind a try of that one myself.

The G9 isn't a large camera, but its not what I would call handy to pop in a small bag.
I do own one, but use the smaller GX9 for most of my travel and casual wandering around photography.
 
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nandbytes said:
G9 - 136.9 x 97.3 x 91.6 X 658Gm
S5 - 132.6 X 97.1 X 81.9 X 714Gm

Not exactly small.... (Since you don't consider your S5 small)
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That is a valid point, I hadn't looked at the dimensions and I haven't seen one in the flesh...Thank you
 
Adamcski said:
That is a valid point, I hadn't looked at the dimensions and I haven't seen one in the flesh...Thank you
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It's best to look at combinations of bodies and lenses to see what the whole package looks like as there may be only minimal savings in bulk and weight when looking at just camera bodies but you you can't use the camera without a lens can you?
 
Double post.
 
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I have a olympus omd.10 mkiv plus 3 lenses in the for sale section . It’s my sons kit and is virtually unused ..and at a give away price
 
woof woof said:
It's best to look at combinations of bodies and lenses to see what the whole package looks like as there may be only minimal savings in bulk and weight when looking at just camera bodies but you you can't use the camera without a lens can you?
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You can see the novice in me, I hadn't thought about this element of things, just assumed they would be smaller...its one thing I love(d) about my M50 mk ii - its tiny..

Think I need to pop into WEX and have a nose around and just keep the wallet at home so I don't impulse purchase anything. I assume the 4/3 lenses will be smaller than the Lumix S ones..
 
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Adamcski said:
That is a valid point, I hadn't looked at the dimensions and I haven't seen one in the flesh...Thank you
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Flagship level M43 bodies are nearly as big if not bigger than FF mirrorless.
If you are wanting small think along the lines of E-M10 series or GX series on Panasonic.

The major advantage of m43 as you have rightly noticed is in getting longer reach with smaller lenses. 70-300mm on FF will be quite big in comparison to 45-150 style lens.

Personally I am still looking for a GM5 (reasonably priced and in decent condition) with 12-32mm+35-100mm. Gives 24-200mm combination.
On second thought why not consider a camera like RX100VII, you get a 24-200mm f2.8-4.5 lens with blackout free shooting and a really good AF system. the 1" sensor isn't as good as have m43 ILCs but its small, there is no hassle maintaining two lens systems and slips into you pocket.
Just a thought....

woof woof said:
It's best to look at combinations of bodies and lenses to see what the whole package looks like as there may be only minimal savings in bulk and weight when looking at camera bodies but you can't use the camera without a lens can you?
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Adding a pancake lens to E-M1x may not get what OP is after ;)
 
By the way considering you are open to a second mount I could also suggest Sony A6XXX series (there's option for every price point and AF capability you need).
You can get small lenses like Sony 16-70mm f4 or sigma 18-50mm f2.8 which is just amazing.
Then you have lens like 70-350mm which isn't tiny by any means but is pretty small considering the quality and range you get (105-525mm).
So could be a very capable "do-it-all" two lens combo that's not particularly big but not tiny either.
If you want tiny then GM5+12-32+35-100 :D

You can get sigma 18-50mm in L-mount too but you'll have to buy the Leica CL ;)
 
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As you said yourself, there’s no substitute for handling a camera yourself. But you can at least do so in the knowledge that, for all normal purposes, m4/3 image quality is fine. Particularly if you process the files accordingly.
 
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