Metering

pampers

pampers

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Clifford
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Ok so this question is going to have most of you, rolling around the floor laughing.

I keep seeing people saying meter on the grass. Now surely they are not saying to use the grass, as a custom white balance:bonk:. Or do they mean, that one should piont the camera, at the grass then halve press the shutter release. And then while keeping the button halve pressed, refoucus on the subject.

After you have finnished rolling around the floor and laughing. And composed yourselfs. An answer would be very well recived:thumbs:
 
take a light reading off the grass ,,nothing to do with white balance ( it may be the next best thing to taking a light reading off a grey card if you dont have one with you )
 
Metering on the grass (foreground) is finding the right exposure needed to correctly expose for that part of the scene (your base exposure).

One then would then meter for the sky (after exposing for the f/g) and find out what the exposure difference is between the forground and sky.

If the difference between the two is 3 stops, then one would expose for the foreground and use a 3 stop grad to balance the exposure for the sky.

OK?
 
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Still totaly confused:( and my head is starting to hurt.

So if I wanted to take say a picture, of say a swan (lots of white), and on a sunny day. And not wanting to blow the highlights. Would metering off the grass first, and then recomposeing and focseing on the swan. Stop the white on the swan from blowing.

How does one meter off the grass:suspect:
 
OK here goes

You want to find the right exposure for the scene.. metering off a white swan with a bright background probably not going to do it

So you need something midtone.. a grey card is good but not practical when using long lens.

You point the lens at the grass near the swan or at least in same lighting..and you take note of the readings. the f number, the shutter speed and the iso

You then point at the swan and all those readings will probably be different.. depending on what mode your shooting in only some or one wil be different..

You then change the settings to the same reading you where getting at the grass.. and you must totally ignore what the exposure meter is telling you...

Being in Manual is best as you can note all the readings from the grass (taken in any mode) switch to manual.. set all those readings in manual and shoot the swan

if in other modes just changfe what it lets you

IMPORTANT.. you must ignore the camera telling you the exposure is wrong when you point at the swan.. just input the readings you got from the grass and hey presto a well exposed swan..
 
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<makes everyone a cuppa... pass the biscuits Cliff... chop chop ;)>




thanku Kipax et al - would love to know how to do this having spent two hours trying to take a shot of a white bleeding heart today and getting VERY dark shots on spot meter> :thinking:


edit: holey schmoley, you were quick... going back to read:D
 
Just a note that the grass has to be green grass, none of the dried up brown, yellow or white stuff.
Green grass reflects about the same amount of light as a grey card.
 
hmmmmmm... looking at the exif on my shots at the mo... kinda like the dark look but think that was a fluke...

was using a 50mm prime (I think that's what it's called - nifty fifty - which I got yesterday on 1.8 and aperture)

hmmm... had probs with trying to photograph the black cat, in the shade, under the tree in the mud - no idea what to try and meter to then so just tried everything ... 500 shots later :p...>

many thankus for the explanations - will try again tomorrow :clap:

<oops... sorry Cliff for hijack... slaps own wrist :whistling:>
 
Azure said:
hmmm... had probs with trying to photograph the black cat, in the shade, under the tree in the mud - no idea what to try and meter to then so just tried everything ... 500 shots later :p...>
Click to expand...

In that situation when the exposure meter is in the middle but its all too dark.. you need to over expose... either lower the shutter speed OR up the iso OR open the lens (smaller f-stop f4 is better than f10 for example)
 
If you don't want to go full manual, you can meter off the grass and press the AE lock button (or press and hold, depending how you have the button set up) and then focus on the swan.
 
terryt said:
If you don't want to go full manual, you can meter off the grass and press the AE lock button (or press and hold, depending how you have the button set up) and then focus on the swan.
Click to expand...

It doesnt have to be manual.. it can be any mode and just change what the camera lets you to the settings you want..

Using AE lock teaches people nothing to be honest.. shoot and learn the settings way :)
 
*feeling stuffed after too many bourbons*

Ah, I see. Presumably it's best to use the readings from the full auto mode to get all 3 settings. If there's no green grass available, tarmac will do the job apparently. I've seen credit card size black/grey/white cards for sale, now I know what they're used for!

Cheers Kipax.
 
ok... I'm sitting with the camera in hand pointing at the light in 1.8... how do I know what the exposure should be because it doesn't show the exposure setting

do you have to switch it back to manual and then compare the settings each time?


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when i was shooting the white bleeding hearts i just kept changing it from spot metering to centre weighted...and the spot metering took it from 1/250 (centreweighted) to 1/800 in spot.... and the dark ones show detail but the centre weighted ones are blown. I've not really used aperture mode so this is all a bit new.




black kitty ones haven't worked out well, the lighting was going all over the place as I moved the camera... but MAN, THAT LENS IS FANTASTIC!



edit: ah ok, reading back.... thanku

<passes round the custard creams> :D
 
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Oh dear.
Sorry for takeing so long to get back, but the poo hit the fan for a while here (at work).

Still as plain as mud:(. With just one ray of light I think:thinking:. I use ap priority. And ae lock seems to ring a bell. But what do you think of my latest thought. How about if I belt the swan over the head, and drag it to a nice shaddy spot, and then take a photo.
 
Just read my last reply, and it could be taken as me takeing the pee out of those of you, who have been kind enough to take the time and effort to reply. It is in no way meant to come across that way.

If it has or does upset anyone, may I say sorry now:thumbs:
 
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pampers said:
Still totaly confused:( and my head is starting to hurt.

So if I wanted to take say a picture, of say a swan (lots of white), and on a sunny day. And not wanting to blow the highlights. Would metering off the grass first, and then recomposeing and focseing on the swan. Stop the white on the swan from blowing.

How does one meter off the grass:suspect:
Click to expand...

No. In this case ignore the grass lol. Concentrate on the swan. If the swan fills the entire frame I would set the camera to "spot meter" and spot meter on the swan alone, then you will have the right exposure for the swan without blowing it out. If the scene involves other components (grass, river etc.) then KIPAX has answered this for you.

If you have a DSLR it will most likely have 3 metering modes (full, partial & spot)
 
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Digifrog said:
No. In this case ignore the grass lol. Concentrate on the swan. If the swan fills the entire frame I would set the camera to "spot meter" and spot meter on the swan alone, then you will have the right exposure for the swan without blowing it out. If the scene involves other components (grass, river etc.) then KIPAX has answered this for you.

If you have a DSLR it will most likely have 3 metering modes (full, partial & spot)
Click to expand...

Sorry mate but that's not going to work either. If you spot meter the white swan the meter will try to make it 18% grey and under expose it. You'd need to add some exposure comp. to make it white;)
 
Ah the fog starts to clear. Thank you all for takeing the time and trouble to help me.:thumbs::clap::thumbs:
 
RJL2005 said:
Sorry mate but that's not going to work either. If you spot meter the white swan the meter will try to make it 18% grey and under expose it. You'd need to add some exposure comp. to make it white;)
Click to expand...

Correct,like taking a snow scene it will underexpose.:)
 
Just going off on a tangent here ,,to ( hopefully ) help those who don&#8217;t get how metering works ( those who do switch off now ) for simplicity im referring to a film camera loaded with black and white film ,although it remains the same for digital and colour pretty much.
Imagine you have three huge cards lined up in front of you ,one white one grey and one black.so that when you point the camera at each one they completely fill the frame ,now take a picture of the white card ,,when the film is developed and you have the print back ,it will be grey then take a picture of the black card and that also will be grey,,,then take a picture of the grey card and that will be grey .so why are the white and black cards coming out grey ? well because of the way the in camera light meter is calibrated and works it trys to get an average light reading for the scene to give the best possible picture given the available light .so on the white card its &#8220;thinking &#8220; wow this is far too bright ,and trys to make it a bit darker by telling the camera to use either a faster shutter speed or a smaller aperture ( bigger f stop number ) and so the white comes out looking grey. And on the black card the opposite is happening ,,it &#8220; thinks &#8220; wow this is really dark , must try and brighten the scene up a bit and so it gives a longer shutter speed or a larger aperture ( smaller number )or a combination of both and then over exposes the black which then makes it look grey&#8230;and the grey? well that&#8217;s just right anyway.
 
Metering off the grass is a well known Wedding tactic. Where difficult subjects ( for exposure ) congregate on lawns a lot. Grass is actually slightly darker than mid - grey so you will need to adjust the exposure slightly after taking your reading. Another good ploy is to meter off a bright blue patch of sky which will actually give you a mid - grey reading!

The whole thing about exposure is admirably dealt with in B Peterson's excellent book, "Understanding Exposure". If you're not really sure about exposure this is probably a very wise investment for you. Recommend buying it.
 
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In general, if you meter a scene with a lot of white or light subject matter ( snow and beach scenes are good examples ) you will need to open up a couple of stops or so depending on how white it is. For dark scenes you will need to close down by a similar amount.

In the case of the scene you mention don't meter off the swan!!

It takes a bit of practice to work out what areas in your scene are mid - grey and which are not hence a grey card is useful and incident light readings are best if at all possible. No matter what you do and especially if you're fairly new to exposure, I'd recommend bracketing like mad for a while. It will give you a good insight into how your results come up and through time will help you learn the amount to correct the camera reading.
 
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What happens if the Swan swims off if your not fast enough lol
 
KIPAX said:
and sports ...try shooting a grey card accross a football pitch :)
Click to expand...

I've never shot sports but I take your point :D

The other dodge I mentioned re metering off a clear blue sky is of limited use in the UK mind you ;)
 
Not wanting to confuse matters but I take a reading off of the back of my hand in similar lighting to main subject. Usually works for me.
 
paul139 said:
Not wanting to confuse matters but I take a reading off of the back of my hand in similar lighting to main subject. Usually works for me.
Click to expand...

I find it best to meter off the palm of my hand as it does not tan and is more consistent. :D
I also give +1 stop to the reading from my palm (its nearer 1 1/3 actually :) ) you need to do some tests of your own hand to see what works best.
 
pampers said:
So if I wanted to take say a picture, of say a swan (lots of white), and on a sunny day. And not wanting to blow the highlights.
Click to expand...
Manual exposure equivalent to the Sunny 16 guideline. Test shot and adjust if necessary.

The following shots are all with exposures equivalent to Sunny 16 and none have edits to adjust exposure/levels/curves etc....

20110331_124533_000.jpg


20110404_081152_000.jpg


20110404_081411_000.jpg


20110404_084546_000.jpg
 
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Wow what a lot of good advice:thumbs:. Sorry I have not replied before, but I work nights, and the internet is hit and miss here.

I have been out today haveing a play, but have not had time to put them onto my portable drive. When I have I will post some of them, in the crit section, for you all to rip apart:D:p:D.

Am now going to spend some time digesting all the tips, you all have been kind enough to give:thumbs:

Once again a big thank you, to you all:thumbs::thumbs:
 
I'm still trying to get to grips with this stuff too,the way I understand it is, all you are tring to do is tell how much light is falling on your subject,if that subject is very light or dark your camers may think there is less or more light then there really is,this is where the grey card/grass comes in,by taking a reading off one of those you should be giving your camera a better chance to guess correctly the true amount of light falling on your subject so then your camera gets the correct info,as the grey card or grass cuts out the mistakes your camera could make if trying to measure the amount of light from a very light or dark subject,as on a very light subject your camera may read that scene as not just a light cloured subject but think alot a light is falling on the subject so the camera will under expose as it would think they is more light then there really is,dont think of exposure as measuring a given subject but rather the amount of light falling on the subjuct,so swap subjuects but with the same light,the exposure should be the same,grass or swan the light will always be the same.
 
snigg said:
I'm still trying to get to grips with this stuff too,the way I understand it is, all you are tring to do is tell how much light is falling on your subject,if that subject is very light or dark your camers may think there is less or more light then there really is,this is where the grey card/grass comes in,by taking a reading off one of those you should be giving your camera a better chance to guess correctly the true amount of light falling on your subject so then your camera gets the correct info,as the grey card or grass cuts out the mistakes your camera could make if trying to measure the amount of light from a very light or dark subject,as on a very light subject your camera may read that scene as not just a light cloured subject but think alot a light is falling on the subject so the camera will under expose as it would think they is more light then there really is,dont think of exposure as measuring a given subject but rather the amount of light falling on the subjuct,so swap subjuects but with the same light,the exposure should be the same,grass or swan the light will always be the same.
Click to expand...



As a general rule of thumb, and you are not using spot type metering, then - if your background is darker than your subject you will need -ve EC if your background is lighter than your subject you will need +ve EC.

If you want to expose for the subject of course.
 
There's metering, and then there's best exposure.

A meter, of whatever kind, makes a guess. If you know what you're doing, usually a good guess, but it's easily fooled.

If you chimp the LCD though, and read the histogram and blinkies, that is an actual exposure. If the histogram looks right and the blinkies are telling you that the important highlights are okay, then you have got a good exposure. Then you can tweak it further and get an optimum exposure, depending on how you interpret optimum.

In that respect, you don't need a meter at all. Ultimately it doesn't matter what the meter says, it's what goes on the sensor that matters. The LCD/histogram/blinkies cannot be wrong, and I would say it's actually easier to learn to read those properly, and quicker, than it is the fiddle about with meter readings.

PS Digital is not the same as film, and negative film and slide film are also quite different in the way they react to exposure. If really want to know about this stuff, don't read Bryan Peterson's book!
 
Well if chimping is giving you what you want then obviously that is what you should use. I personally don't find it as useful as you do. I have found the blinkies you mention to be a poor guide to what is blown and what isn't.

Of course you are right about using your own judgement about exposure and I doubt anyone would advocate being a slave to the meter. Nonetheless I personally find them invaluable at getting to that "correct" exposure.

Re the digital and film thing, while it is correct that film and digital require a slightly different approach to exposure the basic principles are the same. As you point out slide film will be much less forgiving than colour negative so there isn't a blanket approach to "film". Add to that the fact that all films have slightly different characteristics and there's a few factors to worry about. Still, the basics of using shutter speed, ISO, and aperture are pretty much worth learning and it seems the poster above would benefit from some guidance on these basics.

I'm not sure why you suggest BP's book to be so detrimental to learning, I bought it for a friend a couple of years ago and he found it to be quite useful.

Most of my photography involves studio lighting and so I'm speaking from that point of view mainly although I still use a meter if I'm shooting outside. We all use our judgement when it comes to final exposure but there are some ways of getting there that are more efficient. Although I also interpret the results I wouldn't do without a meter. For me, it beats faffing around with a tiny LCD jpeg and blinkies which are inaccurate but each to their own and if something is working for you stick with it obviously.

OTOH I suspect that to get the results you are happy with, you have spent a fairly long time learning how to interpret what is actually on that LCD and what the blinkies are telling you. I'd be surprised if for someone learning about exposure that the meter wasn't an awful lot easier and quicker. Of course it could be argued that I've spent a fairly long time learning how to use the meter hence my viewpoint:D
 
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