MATHS NUMPTY COULD USE A LITTLE HELP.....

Barryboy

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Rob
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Hi... Having barely struggled over the line at O level Maths nearly 50 years ago I could use a little help... I have a camera (Nikon D610) which has 24.3 MP Full frame and 10.5 MP in DX mode. Can anyone help me calculate roughly how many shots I should be getting per GB in full frame mode?

I have a couple of 64GB cards which are far too big - write times are unbelievably long. I need to get smaller capacity cards but would want to find cards with the 'sweet spot' of acceptable write times (I sometimes do a little sport photography so need the write time to keep up with a short burst of continuous shooting) and acceptable capacity. I will keep the 64GB cards for long term backup storage so they won't go to waste but would also ask what cards do you guys use.

Rob

p.s. Unsure if this is the correct forum for this - pls feel free to move it if you think fit.
 
If you set the camera up in both modes, and put the card in the camera, it will tell you how many shots you have left to take. It does depend though on what you are taking photos of. If it is of a very intricate/detailed scene with lots of different colours, this will use up more memory than a picture of a plain blue wall with a window for example, so its impossible to say how many shots you will actually get.

Its not the memory capacity of the card that dictates the write times. What does it say on the front of your cards? I use Lexar 16gb CF cards that have a write speed of 120 Mb/s so these are pretty quick.
 
The easiest maths would be however many you get on the 64GB card ratioed to the size of the card you want to get. Whether you're shooting RAW or JPEG is a huge difference, more so than the MP.

For my Canon 70D I get around 1000 RAW images on a 32GB card which I find is a good balance between swapping cards all the time and risking having too many photos on a card.
 
Honestly, smaller capacity cards are not the answer. Parallelism means that smaller cards can be slower to write, if they use the same size chips inside! You need to buy faster SD cards with higher write speeds - don't get led by the max speed number they often quote in headlines as that is a read speed which is irrelevant for clearing the camera buffer to card.

Anyway, to work out the number of shots, you need to look at the file size of your photos - this is usually in MB (eg. 8MB for a jpg)

1 GB = 1000 MB (in drive storage terms)

so

64GB = 64000 MB

If your files are 8MB then you have space for 64000/8 photos = 8000 shots
 
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How many images varies greatly based on settings and subject. Are you shooting raw or jpg, 12 bit or 14 bit, portraits or landscape. When you put a card in your camera will give you a rough idea how many shots you'll get based on your current settings.

On the second point the size of your card does not dictate the speed of the card. Also the amount of shots you can burst is dictated by the cameras buffer not the sd crad. When a camera writes images they go to a very fast but limited buffer memory before then being moved to the sd card. The speed of your card will dictate how quickly the buffer can be cleared but regardless of how fast the card is the buffer will always be faster and filling it will happen prevent shooting more shots until it clears. It's definitely worth getting fast cards but you will still get locked up due to buffer limitations on your body. If you know you want to record long burst reduce your quality of image to create smaller images so the buffer can store more.
 
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Its not the memory capacity of the card that dictates the write times.

This. Plus the size of the image varies depending on subject, just have a look at your current file sizes.

Which 64Gb cards do you have? I use 16Gb and 32Gb cards with my 5D mk3, only buy sandisk, either Extreme or Extreme pro
 
Ahh.... This is not as simple as I had thought please excuse my naievete. The camera seems to write instantaneously to my Sandisk 4GB card but takes forever and a day to write to the 64GB no-name el-cheapo cards I got (micro USB in a SD adapter). Now for a landscape that wouldn't be such an issue but I don't do much landscape/seascape type of stuff - my main interest is Urban and sport photography so I do use the continuous mode occasionally, but only in bursts of probably 6 or 7 shots. I mainly shoot RAW on card 1 and JPEG on card 2.

Reading through the above I guess it might be better for me to get some fast 8 or 16GB cards and I've got a question here... Is there any difference betwen using micro SD cards in an adapter and dedicated SD cards? Is either one better than the other?

I have found a UK supplier of genuine Sandisk 8GB Ultra Class 10 SD cards at what looks like a good price of £15 for 4 but the write speed of these is quoted at 30mb/s and I'm not sure if that's considered particularly fast?? If that seems acceptable I would be tempted by those I must say... The 'extreme' cards seem to go up in price and as in all things photographic you can easily start to spend silly money - I saw some 'pro' cards at more than fifty notes each.

Given that I'm in no way a pro and my income is not unlimited do you think tose 8Gb cards would be OK or would you recommend I look at the 'extreme' class??
 
sandisk 16gb extreme are only £11.26 at amazon. extreme pros are about £22 you'd need to speak to someone with a d610 to see if it can utilise the difference in speed but you should be fine with the extreme's.

I'd be wary buying anywhere unknown you seemingly get a lot of fake memory cards.
 
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Thanks, all, for your replies. I'll invest in a couple of 16GB sandisk extreme cards. The kids gave me a £20 Amazon voucher for my birthday so happy days.

All the best
Rob
 
Decent choice, you can mirror them to have back up shots normally or use them both for 32GB capacity on a heavy shooting day :)
 
Decent choice, you can mirror them to have back up shots normally or use them both for 32GB capacity on a heavy shooting day :)



Haha... doubt I'll ever take that many shots in a day, JYC! I've actually evolved a system whereby I have RAW on card 1 and JPEG on card 2. That way I can quickly run through the JPEGs using Microsoft viewer and discard those (most of them, sadly) that are rubbish and keep those that show even the slightest glimmer of promise (few, in truth) and then I know which RAW files I have to save/open up in PS.

Rob
 
Nah, I think you will find its 96 now. Eating out has got more expensive.
 
You are thinking of an SD-card like a film canister, where a film would hold 24 or 36 pictures give or take how careful you were with the lead-in ;-) Trouble is in digital, camera doesn't 'take' a picture and record an 'image'.. it takes gazzillions of light-meter 'spot' readings (the brightness of each 'pixel'), and records the 'number' for each, so that what-ever you want to look at your picture on can re-create it by 'painting by numbers'... so you don't have any 'pictures' on an SD card... you have a file containing the 'paint by number' instructions. Each 'digit' used to record a brightness value, takes up a 'byte' of space on your memory card. You need three brightness values, one for each colour, red, blue & Green, to define a pixel, so more pixels in your 'image' so the more bytes of memory a picture will take up; but, you also need a few bytes of data to tell the viewing widget where each pixel belongs, and the camera can use 'compression'.. computer short-hand for want of a better description, to make file-sizes smaller; so there is no direct correlation between Maga-Pixels and Mega-Bytes.. and when the camera tells you how many shots you have left on a card, if you look in the manual, it will tell you its only an 'estimate'.
My camera has 24Mega-Pixels; makes J-Pegs about 10Mega-Bytes or NEF's about 100Mega-Bytes.. but look at a 'set' in file manager on 'Details' rather than as icons, and look at the file-size column, they are rarely exactly the same size, and can vary in file-size by maybe as much as 30% or more 'as shot', purely from how much data the camera has had to record to get all the detail in the picture I took, or not! - More elaborate explanation, if you are interested, here:- Understanding; Mega Pixels, Mega Bytes; tif, jpg, bmp, nef, & raw?

As for the card access times; this is also not related to the cards 'size'; The card is like a car-park; the size in GB tells you how many cars you might park in it... but remember, you are parking paint by numbers instructions not pictures, so you might squeeze a couple of Smart-Cars in one bay or have to park a new Mini across two of them :-)... Having LOST my car in the NAI multi-story when it first opened umpety decades ago, would stand to reason that the bigger the card, the more 'hunting' whatever is reading or writing to it will have to do to find a parking space, so you would expect a bigger card to be 'slower' to get stuff in or out... BUT, if you have good bay marking (unlike the NIA!) could find your space or car dead easy; then you just have to get in and out, and again, if you have a five lane entrance; could be pretty swift, compared to having a single turn pike for in and out! This is where the card 'Class' comes in; there's a few different ways they mark card-speed; and some of the faster cards actually state the read/write speed; My Scan-Disk Extremes say 45MB/S.. ie 45 Mega-Bites per second; but its also marked with a 10 in a circle and a 1 in a bucket. For note, the bigger the number in a circle, the faster the card (I think a circle 10 is up to about 30MB/s) the buckets go the other way, and a 1 in a bucket is slower than a 3 in a bucket; but the 'better' cards this quick will probably be marked with actual 'max' data rate. These different class symbols are because of different 'standards' for SD-Cards that don't just define the card 'speed' but also the reliability and other 'stuff' that's probably not so important to the question you have, just yet.

But brings us to Micro-SD's; and generally they will be more expensive for the same size and class; but it's in the 'other-stuff' the class defines that they start to fall down. Being small they have less surface area to dissipate heat; so even where they may be as fast as a full size SD card, they tend to be less reliable or long lasting. Full size SD card in my camera, under 'heavy' use can get very bleedin hot! a Micro-SD sleeved in an adapter? Going to suffer even more. Personally I wouldn't use them, and experience of them is that they aren't 'as fast' as full size SD cards of the same speed rating; it's a bit like cars 'power' rating; I used to have a 2.25l Land Rover with 60bhp, and a 1.3 Metro with a similar 60bhp... try driving either of them up a hill fully loaded! The Land-Rover had 60 Cart-Horse power, the Metro 60 Paleminos! Putting a large computer game the missus wanted to move to a different PC on her Micro-SD key-ring thing, took three times as long as sticking it on the same size & class full-size SD card out of my camera; simply because the smaller card couldn't sustain it's 'peak' transfer rate so long.

So conclusion to your conundrum, as already suggested, is basically full-size Scan-disk Extreme's with the higher transfer rates, and the 16GB 45/MB/s are a bit of an optimum for useful capacity, speed and price at the moment (about £10 or so per card), and unless your camera can write any faster than the card, and you are buffering out regularly when machine gunning.

But worth noting if you are duel writing in different formats; the NEFS are approx 10x the file size of the J-Pegs, so will take 10x as long to write, and you'll get 1/10th the shots per card; so you may consider an 'asymetric' set up with a smaller, slower card in the J-Peg slot... or why you are shooting in duel format?.... writing one file, in one format is always going to be faster and smaller than two.. and I believe you can 'schedule' second card 'back-up' on switch off on many duel card cameras if it is just for 'back-up'; and if you are shooting NEF to post-process, then why do you want a J-Peg out the camera? surely you can make a J-Peg copy in PP when you clear the card down, if you want that second format set? But that's taking matters off on another topic, and I mainly shoot J-Peg! Cos I don't see much point spending umpety hundred quid on a really sophisticated 'do it all for you' camera, to shoot 'raw' in 'manual' cos it's the 'done thing' making all its electrickery rather redundant, and give myself as much work to do as shooting my forty year old meter-less Zenit film camera!... actually more.. 'cos I'd only get 36 pictures out the Zenit, not 3600 to have to process! ;-) But that is an approach 'thing' and me, as an engineer, one of my early design lessons resonates still; engineers are applied technologists; we use science to solve problems and make life easy... when it's making MORE problems, and making life HARDER... its NOT 'technology'.. its a pain in the proverbial! And to me 'digital' photography is all about convenience, and making work for myself, shooting pictures I have to post-process before I can do anything with, isn't really.. so I don't! But, your approach may be different; but still merit in KIS thinking... Keep-It-Simple if you can.
 
Thanks, Teflon Mike - that answer was a lot of work and is much appreciated. A lot has been cleared up for me now. Whilst I have been a photo hobbyist for more than 40 years, it has mostly been 6x6 and 645 in B/W and printed up myself. However all things must pass, as the great man once said, and I'm now doing (i.e. learning) digital and was woefully short on the theory. I am quite happy for now to let my (incredibly) expensive camera make most of the decisions and concentrate on the framing and composition.

Again, thanks.
Rob
 
bit late to the party here, but i recently had and sd card thats gone awry on me ( works fine in camera and on wifes laptop but wont work in mine. anyway ive had kingston, lexar, sandisk and whatnot but i picked up a samsung evo SD HC I and performance wise its beaten all the other cards.. and was only £11 too! its listed as 48mb/s but its much faster than my so called 90mb/s transcend card and 95mbs sandisk extreme pro...no idea why, but certainly no complaints for the money
 
Thanks, Dean. Have bought the Lexar cards but the weather has been evil - constantly persisting down - so I haven't had a chance to get out yet, but hoping to get into Cardiff on Saturday for some Urban stuff in the City Centre or down to Cardiff Bay if the sun is shining. I'll give them a proper test then, but the few shots I've taken indoors so far seem to have been written to card PDQ. Here's hoping!
 
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