Manual flash for event photography?? Help needed...

[sk66]

I've purchased a Godox AD360 bare bulb flash (Neweer branded..also sold under Cheetah/Lencarta/Calumet/ brands). I do a bit of event photography, often in the evenings, and I'm hoping the power will allow knocking back the sun more easily. I'm also hoping it will be "better" than an SB800 w/ a "beemer" (I'm going to get a qflash telephoto reflector for it) and the ability to use lower flash durations at shorter distances. Both will be useful for wildlife/action photography.

But, I'm stepping into a new realm for me...manual flash for event/action photography, and I'm trying to figure out the best way to approach it. FWIW, I'm fine w/ manual flash for studio type work but I don't think I've ever used manual flash for these types of situations.

I'm thinking full manual exposure may be the way to go. This way the ambient exposure can be locked down and I only have to worry about flash power (output/distance). I can then set the flash exposure for say 10ft and just change the flash power by 2stops every time the distance doubles/halves (1 stop for 1/2 that). My problem with this is it locks my aperture because any change will affect both the ambient and flash exposure. And I'm dependent on flash duration to freeze motion above 1/250 equivalent. (The AD360 has T1's of ~1/100- 1/3000 and it is also HSS compatible)

To get away from this I could use aperture priority w/ fixed ISO. This means the SS will change w/ aperture changes and the SS change will not affect the flash exposure. But it does mean the ambient exposure will vary with metering...matrix metering and EC?? And it will affect the flash exposure due to the aperture change which means another setting change is required (flash output) if I'm changing the aperture for "creative effect" (i.e. fixed distance).
But maybe this is the best approach for variable situations. If I start with my flash exposure set for a descent aperture then as working distances shorten, the DOF gets shallower/flash power greater; then I can simply compensate by stopping down to get back some of the DOF and fix the flash power...

I could go with aperture priority(or manual) with auto ISO. With Nikon, aperture changes will then be offset by ISO changes (within limits set) which will keep the flash and ambient exposures constant but both dependent on metering. I would then only have to adjust flash output for changes in distance...

I don't really see SS priority being useful...

Maybe I'm over-thinking this. I've completely skipped the manual mode/SS for ambient/aperture for flash...

Anyone have any suggestions??? I'm trying to decide on the best/most versatile approach to try to develop/master... I'll have to pick one and stick with it a while...

or forget the whole thing and just stay with TTL; I've become very dependent on TTL it seems... :shake:

 

[HoppyUK]

I've purchased a Godox AD360 bare bulb flash (Neweer branded..also sold under Cheetah/Lencarta/Calumet/ brands). I do a bit of event photography, often in the evenings, and I'm hoping the power will allow knocking back the sun more easily. I'm also hoping it will be "better" than an SB800 w/ a "beemer" (I'm going to get a qflash telephoto reflector for it) and the ability to use lower flash durations at shorter distances. Both will be useful for wildlife/action photography.

But, I'm stepping into a new realm for me...manual flash for event/action photography, and I'm trying to figure out the best way to approach it. FWIW, I'm fine w/ manual flash for studio type work but I don't think I've ever used manual flash for these types of situations.

I'm thinking full manual exposure may be the way to go. This way the ambient exposure can be locked down and I only have to worry about flash power (output/distance). I can then set the flash exposure for say 10ft and just change the flash power by 2stops every time the distance doubles/halves (1 stop for 1/2 that). My problem with this is it locks my aperture because any change will affect both the ambient and flash exposure. And I'm dependent on flash duration to freeze motion above 1/250 equivalent. (The AD360 has T1's of ~1/100- 1/3000 and it is also HSS compatible)

To get away from this I could use aperture priority w/ fixed ISO. This means the SS will change w/ aperture changes and the SS change will not affect the flash exposure. But it does mean the ambient exposure will vary with metering...matrix metering and EC?? And it will affect the flash exposure due to the aperture change which means another setting change is required (flash output) if I'm changing the aperture for "creative effect" (i.e. fixed distance).
But maybe this is the best approach for variable situations. If I start with my flash exposure set for a descent aperture then as working distances shorten, the DOF gets shallower/flash power greater; then I can simply compensate by stopping down to get back some of the DOF and fix the flash power...

I could go with aperture priority(or manual) with auto ISO. With Nikon, aperture changes will then be offset by ISO changes (within limits set) which will keep the flash and ambient exposures constant but both dependent on metering. I would then only have to adjust flash output for changes in distance...

I don't really see SS priority being useful...

Maybe I'm over-thinking this. I've completely skipped the manual mode/SS for ambient/aperture for flash...

Anyone have any suggestions??? I'm trying to decide on the best/most versatile approach to try to develop/master... I'll have to pick one and stick with it a while...

or forget the whole thing and just stay with TTL; I've become very dependent on TTL it seems... :shake:

Hi Steven, if it was me, I'd forget the whole thing, assuming you don't need the extra power for these events - which is really what the Godox/Cheetah/Calumet/Lencarta is all about. I don't do event type work professionally, but I've done a lot of shooting in similar family type situations and my default is aperture-priority with flash on auto-TTL.

I find that ambient changes quite a lot around a typical function room, and of course flash exposure is very sensitive to distance. I'd want to keep flash exposure within say half a stop of optimum and in manual that would mean either changing power a lot or limiting distance changes and adjusting framing with zoom. Plus I find these situations very fluid and fast changing, and I want to concentrate on the people, arranging groups, framing, timing etc.

In other words, I want to have as few technical distractions as possible. With aperture-priority and flash on auto, all I usually have to worry about is the shutter speed not dropping too low so I keep an eye on that and let the technology sort out the rest. In practise however, I also chimp like a mad thing and adjust exposure comp on the camera (moderates shutter speed) and flash comp on the gun (moderates power) to keep everything on an even keel, but I can do that very quickly and almost instinctively.

I'm sure you know all this. Basically I wouldn't use the Godox unless I absolutely needed the extra power. I don't know what hot-shoe flash you have, but something like the Nikon SB900 packs quite a punch and the Godox will likely have not much more than one or 1.5 stops over that. Add a battery pack for fast recycle and just push the ISO instead if needs be - your D4 will eat that. Save the Godox for battling with the sun when it will really come into its own.

 

[Phil V]

I have to agree wholeheartedly with Richard. I love by the rule ' TTL for dynamic situations, Manual for static'.

That btw predates TTL and goes back to when we had 'auto' flash, and I would balance the flash using the different auto power levels.

 

[sk66]

I have a series of Nikon flashes. 1x SB800/ 2x SB600 (more powerful than 900/700s). For events I normally have the SB800 on camera w/ stock diffuser dome and large flashbender... (most events are outdoors). *Sometimes* I'll put the 600's on stands and use CLS.

Yeah, there is a reason I've become dependent on TTL... And I don't think I ever owned a flash that wasn't at least "auto" capable. I don't ever use manual flash unless TTL/CLS is giving me problems.

I did try using my SB800 in manual on camera for some birds yesterday...seemed to work well but I didn't actually "need" the flash so it's hard to say.

 

[sk66]

The other thing I was wanting was less dependence on AA's.
I have a PB820 pack for the SB800 but it still seems to chew thru the AA's....

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The ancient way of working manual flash, with shutters that could sinc at all speeds, was to set the aperture for the flash distance at full power, then only change the shutter speed for the ambient light. It became second nature when using Rolleis and old metz and braun flashes ( shows my age).

It also works with more modern flashes with High speed settings, but over a more restricted distance range.

Interestingly the new mini EF-X20 Fuji flash can be dial set from 1/64 power to 1/1 power which makes life very easy in manual.

There are a number of makers of external power packs... but not inexpensive ones.

 

[sk66]

The AD360 has a slow enough T1 at full power that "tail sync" should be possible (sync at any SS)... I have triggers coming that should allow me to set the timing.

Basically you're talking about the basic "full manual" "aperture for flash/ss for ambient." I'm playing around with A priority where the camera keeps the ambient constant (based on metering/EC) by automatically varying the SS (ISO locked). All I have to do is change the aperture for distance changes/flash exposure. I'm using the SB800 like this until the AD360 shows up... completely undecided about this working well...

Part of the reason for the flash was to avoid using full power most of the time in order to have faster T1 times (freeze motion), quicker recycle, etc. without having to start with higher ISO/larger apertures.

 

[HoppyUK]

I think you know all the tricks Steven, but there's no denying that auto-TTL flash is fantastically useful and in fast changing situations there is no easy alternative. If you have a bit of time, even just a few seconds, you can stop and adjust but I'm not sure why you need to use the Godox when a click of the ISO dial will sort it with your Nikon guns. In the kind of situations I had in mind (and may not be quite the same as yours) I'm pushing the ISO anyway to get the ambient up.

Need faster recycle - consider a Godox power pack or similar. More power with auto-TTL, or shorter durations - gang two guns. Concerned about over-heating - carry a spare. Not ideal perhaps, but auto-TTL is the last thing I'd want to give up.

 

[sk66]

Yeah, I guess I didn't think this one thru real well... It will still be useful, just not "as useful" as I was hoping.

I have a Godox 820 pack, and I'm getting the 960 w/ the flash. But the SB's still require batteries in the chamber and mine are dying awfully quick it seems.
I ordered a couple sets of Eneloop XX's and a better charger/reconditioner to see if that makes a difference... Maybe my NiZn's are wore out.