Mac Book Users Advice please

Dervish99

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Russ
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My other halfs laptop has died after 4 yrs (Dell) which she thinks is disgusting, (apprently she thinks a laptop should last a lifetime) :cuckoo:

Now she thinks the future lies with fruit based computing ( can you tell i'm not a Jobs convert):D so she wants a Mac Book Pro thingy.

knowing nothing about what they are like can you give me the lowdown on them, before I get her one, as it will be me that has to sort out problems/conflicts etc any likley issues converting from a windows environment to OS? file formats etc

cheers
 
Well, you could make it easy on yourself.

First thing to do after setting up the Admin account would be to use the BootCamp assistant to repartition the disk for use with Windows - Leave 50Gigs or so for the MacOS system, and then install Windows 7.
 
If she wants to keep using the same software then best do as Slaphead says. What does she want to do with it? For myself I think it's a waste of a hard drive, or whatever you get, to give a chunk over to another OS but the alternative is to budget for software.

I'm a Mac user of long standing and can confirm that they also break down and can get cranky after about 4 years but, having said that, my partner's been using an iMac for 6 years and it keeps on trucking.

You need to know that the new Macs, all of them, are without DVD drives and if you want to read from discs you need to buy a separate unit. That apart, for a large amount of money you get a fantastic machine. The Apple Refurbished page has some of the previous models at a discount, these are great machines and have DVD readers. Or you could spend the same amount on something like a Sony VAIO and not have to worry about changing systems.
 
Like a lot of people these days I have an assortment of Apple and Windows based kit, I would offer my opinion as follows;

Don't think that Apple kit doesn't fail, because it does.

Apple kit does play nicely together.

OSX / iOS is not necessarily better than windows, it is however different, some bits I prefer, some bits I don't.

File compatibility is not too much of a problem for the mainstream applications.

I think that Apple's laptop designs are miles ahead of the opposition.

I think that Apple's laptop pricing is miles higher than the opposition.

I think that Apple kit tends to have better residual values than the opposition.

Thats about it really.
 
Just another thought on the software. If she wants to do a lot of "creative" image based stuff then the Mac really does excel, but, as I said, budget for software, it can be like changing from one camera manufacturer to another when you have all that money invested in lenses. You don't get MS Office with Macs and you have to pay for their versions of Office programmes. Apple's version of Powerpoint is vastly superior and the wp programme is also good and can read and export to Word. One thing about the new Macs running Lion and onwards is that file saving in Apple programmes happens automatically and constantly. It's a bit unnerving at first but it means that it's always saved and you can scroll back through the documents history, just like in Time Machine, which you also get.
 
Like a lot of people these days I have an assortment of Apple and Windows based kit, I would offer my opinion as follows;

Don't think that Apple kit doesn't fail, because it does.

Apple kit does play nicely together.

OSX / iOS is not necessarily better than windows, it is however different, some bits I prefer, some bits I don't.

File compatibility is not too much of a problem for the mainstream applications.

I think that Apple's laptop designs are miles ahead of the opposition.

I think that Apple's laptop pricing is miles higher than the opposition.

I think that Apple kit tends to have better residual values than the opposition.

Thats about it really.

Good summary from Paul there.

I would add that if you want a Retina screen MacBook Pro then be aware that this prevents upgrading so buy wisely.

If the screen real estate isn't as important then a 15" (non-Retina) MacBook Pro may serve you well.

Two easy and very good upgrades are to swap the HDD to a SSD drive for c.£100 and then buy an external DVD case (USB connection) and remove the superdrive and insert the original HDD in a caddy in the superdrive space.

From my conversion to Apple my other thoughts are: -

The different OS does taking some getting used to and it is a love/hate thing

Most programmes are available in OSX flavour with those that aren't able to run on the MBP with Windows running on a separate partition.
 
Well, you could make it easy on yourself.

First thing to do after setting up the Admin account would be to use the BootCamp assistant to repartition the disk for use with Windows - Leave 50Gigs or so for the MacOS system, and then install Windows 7.

That is arguably the very worst thing you can do to a mac apart from physically destroying it. A virtualbox setup is bad enough, why would you want the Wirus with full rights also crippling osx at the same time?

The only way is to embrace the system to the full. The thing is nice simple yet powerful enough to use. That's great. But yeah, you do have to set up admin / regular user account to keep security under control.
 
I didn't mean to imply that you couldn't get it, I meant it doesn't come pre-installed as it may be, used to be, with PCs. It still costs. The Apple apps are cheaper, arguably better, and can be bought separately.

I'm inclined to agree with daugirdas.
 
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I didn't mean to imply that you couldn't get it, I meant it doesn't come pre-installed as it may be, used to be, with PCs.

You've only ever got trials of MS Office software with PCs.

IMO LaTeX is the best word processing suite anyway and that's free for all OSes.
 
Open office easily replaces ms office.

Build quality on mac laptops is poor. My MacBook is junk and its only 5 and has been looked after carefully. Desktops are much more robust. John Lewis are offering them with a 3 year warranty at the moment so you can avoid the apple care cost if you don't want the software support.

If its mostly web surfing rather than serious document production I'd consider a tablet instead. Ipad mini 64gb is 350 quid. Can get 3 for one MacBook cost. Androids are even cheaper. The chrome books are also very good value if you consider them disposable after a couple of years. More like laptop form factor too.
 
You need to know that the new Macs, all of them, are without DVD drives and if you want to read from discs you need to buy a separate unit. That apart, for a large amount of money you get a fantastic machine. The Apple Refurbished page has some of the previous models at a discount, these are great machines and have DVD readers. Or you could spend the same amount on something like a Sony VAIO and not have to worry about changing systems.

cheers for that, didnt know about the lack of a dvd drive, guess thats how they make them so thin, by removing functionality:thinking:
 
Like a lot of people these days I have an assortment of Apple and Windows based kit, I would offer my opinion as follows;

Don't think that Apple kit doesn't fail, because it does.

Apple kit does play nicely together.

OSX / iOS is not necessarily better than windows, it is however different, some bits I prefer, some bits I don't.

File compatibility is not too much of a problem for the mainstream applications.

I think that Apple's laptop designs are miles ahead of the opposition.

I think that Apple's laptop pricing is miles higher than the opposition.

I think that Apple kit tends to have better residual values than the opposition.

Thats about it really.

cheers, that about sums up my thoughts about it too, they seem well designed and screwed together, but i don't fancy paying the "i'm hip and cool" tax:shrug:
 
Cheers for the input everyone,

Cannot see the point in loading windows onto a mac, I think for what she needs a high spec dell, or sony , or levono would do the same for less. Just don't want to go down the Win 8 route, as it seems pointless for a non ouchscreen laptop. I'm now looing at Dell outlet, as they are still avaliable with win 7.
 
From personal experience, most non-techie people that have gone the Apple way have not looked back. I don't think you would need to load Windows - depending on what she'll need to do. If your other half will just do basic browsing - you have Safari, Chrome and Firefox to name a few. For office, you would have to get Microsoft Office for Mac OSX. There's VLC for OSX if she wants to watch movies.

OSX is a very elegant, simple and pretty UI. The MBA and MBP are just beautiful devices which she will really appreciate (or already has appreciated!). And I really love the multi-touch trackpad.

I was strongly in the Windows camp (been a Windows user for over 20 years) but I caved into the MBA because of its sheer portability (this was before Intel UltraBooks were on the market).

The only conundrums I face is dealing with NTFS usb sticks as OSX can read from them but can't write to them. My 2TB external HDD is formatted as OSX Journalled so I can't plug it into a Windows machine. Everything else really just works on my MBA.

If you haven't had much experience with OSX, it would be a good opportunity for you to play and learn OSX. These days, OSX certainly does have a decent market share and I really appreciated the IT knowledge I got from owning a MBA.
 
I have a 4 year old macbook pro, and if you are not contemplating heavy use (photoshop/rendering videos etc), then this relatively older model is ideal for web use, bit of word processing/spreadsheets etc.

I swapped out the DVD player and put a 2nd internal drive into ease back-ups/storage.

It looks nice, and as both a Windows and Mac user, I find Mac OS a lot more elegant than Windows, but it took a bit of getting used to, but once I did, it feels comfortable.

The cost of my Macbook Pro, although more than a comparable Windows laptop, was around £400.

My main Mac Desktop carries out all my intensive work, leaving my Macbook pro ideally suited to what it does, yes, I'm pleased with mine.
 
That is arguably the very worst thing you can do to a mac apart from physically destroying it. A virtualbox setup is bad enough, why would you want the Wirus with full rights also crippling osx at the same time?

The only way is to embrace the system to the full. The thing is nice simple yet powerful enough to use. That's great. But yeah, you do have to set up admin / regular user account to keep security under control.

Without trying to drag this thread off topic, I have to say I can't see where you're coming from here. Putting windows natively on a Mac is no worse than putting Windows on any other laptop. If you want to talk to about viruses then any traditional viruses you catch on the Windows side will not function on the Mac side. Both systems (and Linux) are susceptible to Java vulnerabilities, and other forms of malware that use scripted attacks. These cannot transfer between systems, but need to be "caught" by the active operating system.

I'm pretty much platform agnostic these days. I make use of Windows, OS X and linux and have a mixture of VMs and native boots. One thing in common is however that they all run on Apple hardware, and to this day I've never had a nasty from the Windows environment actually cross infect either the Mac OS or Linux environments.

My stance these days is that if you're already familiar with Windows it makes no sense to move to OS X or Linux unless there's something critical that you need to which isn't supported or available under Windows, and I'm struggling to think of any example which would be a good enough reason to change. If you want to buy an Apple computer because they look nice, and stick Windows (or Linux on it) then why not.
 
TBH, even as a fully mac'd up house, a top end laptop from Sony, etc would probably do her just as well. I have added W8 to all the new desktops at the office and they are not touch screen, but its still a functional 'pretty ' version of windows and was the cheapest way of getting an OS onto clean machines, W7 was already more expensive and XP [what the staff would have had if they could] a non starter.


However, my personal experience with Macs [I have 1 of each, MBP, MBA, iMac] - more robust physically than the collections of Dells and Acers we have had over the years, and yes this has been tested by a certain degree of clumsiness by one household member. They do breakdown, the HD in my MBP failed at 1yr & 2 weeks old, though luckily, the nice SMART system that is part of the OS told me it was failing and gave me time to back anything up and then get it down to the Mac store. I had got Applecare [the 3 year warranty] and so no problems replacing it - wondered round Brent Cross shopping centre for an hour, went back to collect my freshly repaired machine. The 'expert' did tell me that they would have done it anyway, even without Mac care, at only 2 weeks outside warranty - luckily I didn't have to test this bit of information ;)

Usability - it takes a bit of getting used to when coming over from Windows, but the basics are the same. OS looks much nicer, screens are always better than any on a PC laptop, apart from the very high end pc machines [note: only IMO!! before anyone argues the point]

However, the thing that has swung it for me is how they work - again, this is simply my experience and not a technical absolute - macs seem use their hardware resources much more efficiently than a windows machine, so for example, my original iMac [bought 2nd hand to test the waters] was lower spec'd than the desktop pc I was using at the time [slower processor, but both Intel dual cores, less Ram, both on 250GB HD's] but ran every comparable program much quicker. CS4, MS Office, etc etc.... both machines were of a similar age and the PC had a clean windows install and I don't tend to fill my machines with junk either... so just as a random side by side test, Mac won. I chatted at the time to a few people that had opportunity to compare like for like and they said they had a similar experience. I will reiterate that this is not an absolute, too many other factors could be at play, it was simply my experience.

programs - again, if she uses lots of software this is where it could become financially silly. Some stuff [Adobe for example iirc] will allow you to change your existing licence from a windows one to a Mac one, so no problem, others won't. So, on my main iMac I run MS Office for Macs just because I got a really good deal on it when I purchased the machine, but the laptops just have Open Office, which does the same job and is free. All the common browsers now have Mac versions, Firefox, Chrome, etc. Yes, every so often even a mac will freeze, or something will stop running, but it happens a lot less often than it did on any windows machines I ever or still do own.

DVD drives, yes, current models are without, and if its an Air she is looking at, they never did, but an MBP, look at buying 2nd hand and you will get one with a drive [in fact I would thoroughly recommend 2nd hand if she is determined to have one as its a way to dip your toe in, see how it goes, and still get a good chunk of your money back if she decides after 3 months she doesn't like it]. Even pc machines are looking to phase them out, it will just take a lot longer to happen due to their market share and the demand amongst buyers for 'familiarity' - either way, don't worry, you are buying it for the good lady, a disc or a USB stick both drop easily into a handbag ;)

So, thats simply my experience as someone that has moved over to fruit based computing over the last few years. There are pro's and cons for both systems as laid out very nicely earlier in the thread.

Finally, I know you can go into a store and try machines out, but can you find someone local that has a mac that you can have a longer play with, for a few hours while sharing a coffee and chat kind of thing... it will at least give you an idea of what you would be letting yourself in for - lets face it, we would suggest this is considering new camera equipment, why not for a whole new computer system ;)
 
Cheers for the input everyone,

Cannot see the point in loading windows onto a mac, I think for what she needs a high spec dell, or sony , or levono would do the same for less. Just don't want to go down the Win 8 route, as it seems pointless for a non ouchscreen laptop. I'm now looing at Dell outlet, as they are still avaliable with win 7.

Have a look at the link to the novatech laptop for 550 in the "laptop for around 400" thread.
 
Incidentally what dell does she have now? If you spend a similar amount on a non apple laptop it should be a similar build quality. For example dell latitudes and precisions are built like tanks, we have 6-7 year old models still in circulation (the specs aren't comparable to newer machines but their still in one bit thanks to the mag chassis). But they're more expensive.
 
The 13" MBP (non retina display) still has a DVD burner, and you can upgrade the memory at a later date


As Andrewc said above, it is only the models with the new Retina display that do not come with DVD drives

There are two 13.3 inch and one 15.4 inch MBPs that come with superdrives. Below is a link showing you the specs.

http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro


As suggested before, do have a look at Apple's refurbished store for bargains

http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/specialdeals/mac


You can also search out some good deals which are known to appear on Amazon :thumbs:


As a Mac user for 16 years I can testify that the unibody MBPs are stellar. They are very solidly built. Unlike ' conventional ' laptops which consist of various panels put together, the unibody models are hewn out of a solid block of aluminium. Battery life and longevity are vastly extended. Put it this way I have never run out of juice when on the road with my MBP. As for longevity, the new battery is good for greater than 1000 cycles. For comparative purposes, my unibody MBP was purchased from Apple's refurbished stock and 10 months down the line, the cycle count is only 78. Longevity of the whole unit is also dependent on how much TLC it has been lavished. My Mark 1 MBP is 3.5 months short of it's 7th birthday and still going strong. I only upgraded to a unibody for greater processing power and video memory. I also do think that the heat dissipation is better from these Generation 2 models onwards. If you get an ' M cover ' for the MBP which is available through Amazon, you'll get not only added protection for the MBP but it also helps with cooling. :)
 
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I have a MacBook pro bought in 2008. It's well built and initially went through 3 years of uni so has been worked well. I upgraded the hard drive and OS. It's much more reliable than my 2 year old Dell and the battery still lasts much longer than the Dell. If I had to get another laptop it would be a mac for reliability, stability and battery life.
 
Well, you could make it easy on yourself.

First thing to do after setting up the Admin account would be to use the BootCamp assistant to repartition the disk for use with Windows - Leave 50Gigs or so for the MacOS system, and then install Windows 7.

But the only thing different with a mac is the Operating system, so just buy a windows laptop :)
 
Certainly, one ought to get at least four years of solid life from a laptop. My own is mid-2009 vintage, and my sole machine, used for OS X, Windows (c/o Parallels), and Linux development, as well as photography, with Aperture, AutoPano Giga, and DxO Optics Pro.

I'm not sure I can really offer specific advice, beyond that it does all work well.

If you don't require the very latest and greatest, you could always consider a used model. Apple doesn't, unfortunately, offer a 17" model any longer (for now?) - that would give a rather pleasant 1920x1200, a delight for HD film viewing, or photography editing, at the cost of 2lb extra weight.

Beyond that, it really just comes down to how current you want/need it to be. I'd quite like a faster GPU, both for gaming and development, but - I don't really have much else I could want of it. It's got its maximum of 8GB, and a 256GB SSD in place of the original DVD-R, making for 1.25TB of storage - it's quite a capable system, despite being a couple years old.

You can't really go wrong. ^_^
 
Well, you could make it easy on yourself.

First thing to do after setting up the Admin account would be to use the BootCamp assistant to repartition the disk for use with Windows - Leave 50Gigs or so for the MacOS system, and then install Windows 7.

If you want to really slow her down, yes. Otherwise use Parallels, instead. :D
 
Buying a Mac and then running Windows through bootcamp just seems like a huge waste of money. OSX is different, but not difficult to pick up for anyone who can use Windows.

My bias is toward fruit based computing, mainly because it all works wonderfully together and needs a lot less maintenance than Windows used to when I moved away. I've got a 2007 MacBook Air which with an upgraded SSD still does everything my other half needs (web and office stuff) and she doesn't struggle with OSX.

If you need Windows for any non-OSX applications Parallels or VM Fusion work well, but you should be able to find a OSX equivalent for most things.

Good luck!
 
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