LumoPro LP180

NDevon

NDevon

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Marc
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Sorry I didn't know if this should go in 'Talk Lighting' or 'Equipment so I went with Lighting.

I'm reading the Strobist site as I want to understand the basics of lighting - if there are other or better places to start please tell me. David suggests the LumoPro LP180 as a good flash to start with. Searching Amazon it returns a YongNuo 560 lll - is this the same thing? If so is it any good - it's incredibly cheap....

It is highly rated, but I wanted to get some opinions on here. What would be a good place to start for off camera flash? I'm looking at getting a couple of flashguns and some triggers, a couple of light stands, umbrellas, soft boxes etc. I want to experiment, I've read a fair amount over the last few months but I think I'm going to learn more if I try it out.

I don't mind spending more money for better quality equipment, I don't see the point in buying it cheap then buying it again in a few months, and I don't want to be sat doing a crossword while the flashes cycle.

I'm open to suggestions from people who know what they are doing,
 
The Yongnuo flash range have got a bit of a well deserved cult following especially among the guys who use off camera flash. If you pair the Yongnuo flash with their wireless triggers (especially the YN-622) you cannot go wrong. It won't be stuff you want to upgrade from as there is lost of modifiers and other accessories out there so you can expand its usefulness.
 
Thanks for the reply @redsnappa - much appreciated. I only saw the one flash on Amazon from YongNuo, you said the range, so are there more? Any recommendations? And is Amazon a good place to pick them up from?

Last week I was looking at a Canon flash costing several hundred and thinking at was what it would have to be, these YongNue flashes cost less than 10% of one of those, seems to good to be true but as you say they have a cult following so they are unlikely to be rubbish.

Interested if anyone can recommend or link me to the accessories and modifiers - are they made by the same company or just made for the YongNuo range?
 
Firstly - There's nothing wrong with Yongnuo as a brand (barring a couple of build quality issues).

The YN560's are manual only and paired with a 560TX you can have great control from the camera.

The downsides IMHO:

For a first flashgun, I'd want something I could easily use on camera too - so I'd go with an ETTL flash.

For 'learning about lighting' I'd go with proper studio heads for 3 reasons:
  • Faster recycling
  • Modelling lights
  • Built in modifier mounts.
At the bargain basement end that means something like this, which looks expensive at £70 compared to this at £50, but once you add this at £13 the gap has closed somewhat. Then if you look at the cost of rechargeable batteries and a decent charger - and look at the other advantages, the studio heads are a no-brainer.
 
Modifiers?

For a speedlight - one of these, but if you want to start with cheap brollies - any will do, consider them almost disposable. But even a brolly requires hardware to clamp it to a stand, I'd just get S type brackets nowadays - a lot of hardware just for a brolly, but not much more money than a brolly bracket and a lot more versatile.
 
Phil V said:
At the bargain basement end that means something like this, which looks expensive at £70 compared to this at £50, but once you add this at £13 the gap has closed somewhat. Then if you look at the cost of rechargeable batteries and a decent charger - and look at the other advantages, the studio heads are a no-brainer.
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Thanks for this Phil - much appreciated. Have you used the Godox lights or know of anyone who has done? Are umbrellas and soft boxes a standard fit for studio lights - as in am I going to be able to get plenty of modifiers?

This is going to sound like a silly question, but humour me. I don't know much about how these work, so do they 'charge' ready to flash (I realise they are mains powered) or is all the power drawn from the mains in one hit? The reason I ask is I live in a cottage that is approaching 400 years old. Sure it's been retired over and over, but the wiring is temperamental, as we are very rural we have plenty of power cuts from the main network, and the farm supply often trips out. I would avoid the kitchen circuit as that is full of the white goods and I know I'd trip that easily, I just wonder if I'm likely to keep tripping the house over the edge. Probably sounds silly, but it would be annoying and my better half would have me in the garage with them in no time!

I do like the idea of proper studio lights, I have no desire to be able to pack them up small and take them wherever I go, I just genuinely thought studio lights were going to cost several hundred for a starter set, so this is a pleasant surprise. I have been looking at the Lencarta studio packs, they look really good - apart from the obvious build quality what would be the benefit of a big name more expensive product over something like these Godox lights?

And very lastly, what would you recommend for a decent but budget ETTL flashgun seeing as you brought it up?
 
Agree with Phil. If you have access to mains power, studio flash wins every time. Speedlites are great (and you can use them in conjunction with studio lights) and have lots of obvious advantages - suggest you get a Yongnuo 568 or similar, as every photographer should have at least one decent flash gun.

Since you mention Lencarta, I'd give Garry Edwards of Lencarta a ring. He's a regular contributor on here. Lencarta sell Godox lights rebranded, some with improved specs. You may pay a few pounds more but they're still excellent value and you'll have a warranty, and more importantly you'll get Garry's advice and what you need now (for whatever purpose you have in mind) and where to go from there. He can also point you in the right direction for learning the basics, which is actually more important than the kit itself.

Godox/Lencarta use the popular S-fit mount for modifiers (masses of choice) and Garry will reassure you on the electrical questions. I can't imagine any problem, but Garry will talk you through it.

Any more questions, please ask away, and also come back and tell us how you get on. This kind of question comes up all the time and there will be lots of other folks interested :)
 
NDevon said:
much appreciated. Have you used the Godox lights or know of anyone who has done? Are umbrellas and soft boxes a standard fit for studio lights - as in am I going to be able to get plenty of modifiers?
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Yes I have. Umbrellas are (almost) universal, there are some available with a wider shaft that don't fit std brackets, but generall cheap brollies will be fine. Soft boxes etc are trickier, but if you're looking at Lencarta or Godox, they're both S Type (as Bowens), the other common one would be the Elinchrom mount at the budget end. Avoid anything described as 'universal mount'.

NDevon said:
don't know much about how th
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They charge prior to firing the same as a flashgun, they tend to be lots faster though, especially if used at lower power settings.

NDevon said:
I have been looking at the Lencarta studio packs, they look really good - apart from the obvious build quality what would be the benefit of a big name more expensive product over something like these Godox lights?
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Warranty and a decent repair route beyond warranty. If you can afford it, they're still fantastic value, I just showed the Godox as it's comparable to the non existant after sales you get with the Yongnuo speedlights. Oh, and customer service and advice. @Garry Edwards is a fantastic source of knowledge and nice coffee too if you're passing ;) (Garry works for Lencarta)

NDevon said:
very lastly, what would you recommend for a decent but budget ETTL flashgun seeing as you brought it up?
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The YN685 have built in receivers for the YN622 TX, that's where I'd start.

Or look at the Godox speedlights, I'm not sure about the model no's but you can now build a system of speedlights, studio flash and portable studio flash based around a standard trigger system.
 
Thanks a lot for taking time to post @HoppyUK - that all sounds great advice. I've read lots of Garry's posts and he seems like a good guy, always a bonus to have someone to be able to go back to, I think that's been a concern with buying all this stuff - if it goes wrong id prefer to have someone I can ask about it. Do you happen to know if Lencarta sell the Godox flashlites? What are they branded as - Lencarta?


Phil V said:
Yes I have. Umbrellas are (almost) universal, there are some available with a wider shaft that don't fit std brackets, but generall cheap brollies will be fine. Soft boxes etc are trickier, but if you're looking at Lencarta or Godox, they're both S Type (as Bowens), the other common one would be the Elinchrom mount at the budget end. Avoid anything described as 'universal mount'.
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Can I just check - I've seen soft boxes saying 'Bowens' - so that's the name of the fitting and not a brand?


[QUOTE="Phil V, post: 7546919, member: 24798"
They charge prior to firing the same as a flashgun, they tend to be lots faster though, especially if used at lower power settings.[/QUOTE]

That sounds ok then, I don't think that would trip anything. It's very sensitive, I have a one button system for turning on the TV, Sky box, amps and powered sub (if it took several remotes I wouldn't be allowed to have it), sometimes just turning the TV on trips the power. Flippin annoying as it takes an age for the Sky box to reset and catch up. It's obviously the surge of everything turning on at once, I've got a brand new consumer unit and it's all been checked so it's safe enough, it's just very temperamental and doesn't like to work too hard! In the winter when we are all home and using electrical 'stuff' the house trips almost daily, sometimes several times a day. Not always our fault, often the whole village goes out. If lights were going to make the trips more frequent I would have to look at battery powered options I guess.


[QUOTE="Phil V, post: 7546919, member: 24798"Warranty and a decent repair route beyond warranty. If you can afford it, they're still fantastic value, I just showed the Godox as it's comparable to the non existant after sales you get with the Yongnuo speedlights. Oh, and customer service and advice. @Garry Edwards is a fantastic source of knowledge and nice coffee too if you're passing ;) (Garry works for Lencarta)[/Quote]


I did think Godox were some kind of budget import only found on eBay and the likes but looking at their site their range looks to be good quality. I can't remember the model now but I saw a flash unit with a power pack connected, something 360 I think, that looked quite impressive and not overly expensive. Their studio packs look very reasonable, I just didn't know if they would fall apart after a week of light use.


[QUOTE="Phil V, post: 7546919, member: 24798"The YN685 have built in receivers for the YN622 TX, that's where I'd start.

Or look at the Godox speedlights, I'm not sure about the model no's but you can now build a system of speedlights, studio flash and portable studio flash based around a standard trigger system.[/QUOTE]

I did see that some of the Godox speedlite and studio lights talk to each other. I've got a bit confused about where I'd need a trigger and a receiver and which have it built in though - it's not very clear. The top end Godox speedlites look pretty good, (860 model number maybe?) and take a lithium battery rather than AA rechargeables. Maybe I just fell for the marketing but I thought that looked more convenient and I'm assuming it would be a little more powerful and / or last longer than AA's? I also couldn't work out if they have the triggers and receivers built in or not, lots of jargon and technical words I haven't yet got my head round. I'd have hoped so for their top of the range models, but then I wondered if they were just top of the range because of the battery.

I'm definitely going to get 1 speedlite, whereas before I was thinking of making a small lighting system out of speedlites, but your links and comments made a lot of sense. I don't really need the portability, and mains powered would be more convenient than charging and changing batteries, and they would be more powerful and cycle quicker I assume. I've read various comments about the YongNuo flashlites not being the best quality, I realise for the money you can't expect much and their features are top notch. To be honest I won't be lugging them about and in and out of bags and the car, so that should help them last longer anyway, ey won't be getting the abuse many put them through, But if the Godox range is better quality and don't cost a lot more maybe I'm better off going that way, especially if they will 'talk' to Godox studio lights.


Up until an hour ago I didn't have a camera, I was going to pick something up in a few weeks - not rushing, still lots to consider. I had a courier come to the door with a parcel, my Dad has ordered me a camera! Didn't expect that at all, he's head of media at a university and has a passion for light - stage mostly, theatre and for bands but also for lighting film sets. I sent him a text the other day asking if he had any good books I could read about lighting for photography. He was abroad on holiday which I didn't know, he asked what camera I had, I told him just my iPhone for now, he said we would catch up when he got home. He ordered me a basic Canon model, just a starter one but I can run it in manual and learn all the basics which is exactly what I need to do of course. Lovely surprise, totally unexpected. What a good man he is!

Obviously I have a lot of learning to do before I can delve into the world of lighting, but I want to be able to start using flash when I've got used to the camera, I don't want to get used to using the pop up flash as I don't plan to use it long term. I like a nice landscape as much as the next person and appreciate a lovely view, but my interest is in people, both posed portrait and candid really. I realise to get the best indoor portrait shots at some point I'm going to have to get very friendly with off camera flash, and as sad as it may sound the lighting is something I'm really fascinated by, I just think you can create so many individual effects just by playing around with the lighting. I setup and ran a live music venue in a previous life, and although not my job I loved getting stuck in with setting henliting rigs up. I'm particularly interested in how a backdrop the right shade of grey can be colour neutral and lit properly can be white, black or any colour on the spectrum using gels. I'm guessing I'd need a few more lights to play around with that though, and possibly more power per light.


Anyway, thanks so much to both of you for answering all my questions and giving me lots of tips, I'm genuinely very grateful, I know the same questions arise often and I have searched and read lots, it's just nice to be able to discuss my individual wants and needs in an up to date thread I guess. :)
 
@NDevon, I'll see if I can answer some of your points and questions.
1. Lencarta sells some of the products that Godox makes, plus others that they don't. A couple, such as the Atom range, are just a re-brand of Godox, most others are based on Godox standard models but with higher specs/better performance. Obviously, as we offer a 3 year warranty that we actually offer, and as we pay VAT and taxes, we cannot compete on price with some other sellers, so basically you just pays your money and takes your choice.

I would say that Godox is a reputable company and that, although there can be quality problems, most of their latest stuffs seems to be OK. They do however have some products that have been going since before the present owners bought the business, and these are very different - not difficult to distinguish them, as they are basic units that show their age.

Godox sells to literally any trader, they don't have a dealer network and don't have an infrastructure to deal with warranty repairs, and this leads to dissatisfaction when things go wrong when products are bought from some sources, again you pays your money and takes your choice... They have basically copied Yongnuo's business model, which is probably why Yongnuo has a very mixed reputation - very cheap, no after sales support, some people love them and some hate them. Personally I'm very happy to buy Yongnuo radio triggers, they're as cheap as chips and when they go wrong they just go in the bin - but I wouldn't buy a complex, high tech and expensive product from anyone who doesn't actually provide a high level of after sales service.

Godox offer various communications sytems, some talk to each other and some don't. But if you're not bothered about remote control, then you can use literally any radio trigger of any make, you aren't limited to any specific product.

Softboxes shouldn't actually say "Bowens" unless they are made by Bowens (or at least made by the factory that makes their softboxes, which as it happens also makes ours) but if it says "Bowens fitting" then this can be taken to mean that the speedring fitting is S-fit, which is the fitting that Bowens, ourselves and most others use. What this should mean is that any S-fit accessory will fit any S-fit flash head, but most of the fittings aren't licenced and are just copies, which may or may not fit - welcome to the world of low-end Chinese manufacturing, where standards aren't always as high as we might expect... Bowens are in fact a manufacturer, they have been around since 1922 and over the years built up a reputation for good build quality, albeit at a pretty high price - we quoted a customer only yesterday for some gear and our total order price came to less than 40% of the Bowens quote.

You'll get as many different opinions about flash as you'll get about cars and everything else. IMO the main difference between the value of opinions when it comes to cars and flash is that with cars, most people have driven lots of different types of car and have some basis for forming their opinion - with flash, people often only have experience of a hotshoe flashgun and they are convinced that it can do everything, which it definately can't.

My own view is that there is no single, complete answer, but if you have mains power then you should always use a mains powered flash, because it gives you a modelling light, very fast recycling, a lot of power and it's very good value. If you haven't got mains power then the choice is between powerful portable flash, such as our Safari system, and hotshoe flashguns. Hotshoe flashguns are much smaller, lighter and cheaper, but they can only add to the light that's already there, they don't have anywhere near enough power to create the light, except at dawn and dusk. In a perfect world, the answer is to have mains, portable flash and hotshoe flashguns, because each has its own role - obviously I would say that because they are all available to me - but you know what? I had the same attitude before I became involved with Lencarta and had to buy the stuff myself - I have always spent at least 4 times as much on lighting as I have on cameras and lenses, simply because lighting is so important in photography.

I hope this helps, but please don't hesitate to ring me at Lencarta if you need specific guidance.
 
Thanks for the video @mike weeks - I'm going to try that out later!

Thank you for the comprehensive reply @Garry Edwards - very much appreciated. I'm happy to pay a bit more for a product with a warranty and after sales support, in fact I was anxious about buying the YungNuo stuff because I guessed it would be a challenge to get any help. Sure it's cheap and almost disposable, but I think I'd rather invest in this stuff, at least in a good basic kit.

I do like the ideas around the mains powered stuff. Did you see any of my comments about my crappy wiring Garry? Phil said the lights charge before firing so I think that will mean it's not quite as much of a draw on the power, I don't imagine running round firing 5 shots a second if I'm honest!

So Garry I'm interested in your suggestion for a flashlite and some mains powered studio lights. I'd like them all to be able to talk to each other if possible, I'm guessing at the budget end I won't be able to make adjustments to the lights from the camera position it will be purely a trigger, but if there are more advanced options I'm interested in those too.

Ideally I want a system I can grow, adding more lights that can take on different rolls as my skills evolve, I don't think they need to be the same brands as such, just talk the same language of you know what I mean. I don't want a steep learning curve each time I buy a light, if they work in a similar way that would be great. Is that how it works in the lighting world - do they generally have the same sort of features called the same things?

I guess I'm after something flexible, so I can do as much as possible with it without having to go out and purchase a whole new light when a modifier would have done the same job just as well.

Thanks again for the advice :)
 
NDevon said:
Thanks for the video @mike weeks - I'm going to try that out later!

Thank you for the comprehensive reply @Garry Edwards - very much appreciated. I'm happy to pay a bit more for a product with a warranty and after sales support, in fact I was anxious about buying the YungNuo stuff because I guessed it would be a challenge to get any help. Sure it's cheap and almost disposable, but I think I'd rather invest in this stuff, at least in a good basic kit.

I do like the ideas around the mains powered stuff. Did you see any of my comments about my crappy wiring Garry? Phil said the lights charge before firing so I think that will mean it's not quite as much of a draw on the power, I don't imagine running round firing 5 shots a second if I'm honest!

So Garry I'm interested in your suggestion for a flashlite and some mains powered studio lights. I'd like them all to be able to talk to each other if possible, I'm guessing at the budget end I won't be able to make adjustments to the lights from the camera position it will be purely a trigger, but if there are more advanced options I'm interested in those too.

Ideally I want a system I can grow, adding more lights that can take on different rolls as my skills evolve, I don't think they need to be the same brands as such, just talk the same language of you know what I mean. I don't want a steep learning curve each time I buy a light, if they work in a similar way that would be great. Is that how it works in the lighting world - do they generally have the same sort of features called the same things?

I guess I'm after something flexible, so I can do as much as possible with it without having to go out and purchase a whole new light when a modifier would have done the same job just as well.

Thanks again for the advice :)
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Yes, I did see your comments about your wiring, and I understand completely. We have a farm too, we don't have mains water but we do have mains electricity, but we have to be careful too, because the system - such as it is - was installed before we wired up the barn and before the days of dishwashers, washing machines etc. Take a typical studio flash of 200 Ws - 200 watts for the flash, another 150 for the modelling lamp and say 50 for the various other bits, so no more than 400 watts total, not a lot of current draw, so unlikely to be a problem.

Remote control is, without a doubt, useful. But IMO it only becomes really essential when you can't get to the flash head to adjust its power, for example when it is fitted to an overhead boom arm and the only way of reaching it is to either lower it to below head height or to climb up a ladder and try not to fall off when reaching over - which is what we used to have to do.

All of our lights use the Godox FT16 radio trigger/remote control system, which means that you can trigger and remotely control all of our lights, whether it's mains powered or battery powered, and each flash also has an alternative (and completely standard) 3.5mm jack socket that allows any thrid party radio trigger to be used instead, or as well. Remote control is the lastest gadget and a lot of people seem to feel a need to have the latest gadget, but there you go - back to the car analogy, personally I prefer to manually select 2 wheel drive/4 wheel drive and high/low ratio on my off-roader, it seems to me to be better than pressing a button that does it for me and decides what is best for me, but most people probably prefer to let the car think for them. My take on this is that my brain should be better than a fuzzy logic computer whatsit, which is why I personally don't see the point of high tech flashes that allegedly work out the correct exposure for you, IMO although it can be extremely useful for press photographers and maybe wedding photographers, having a mini computer that ensures that the lighting is never so bad that the shot isn't usable isn't actually good enough, because with just a tiny bit of practice, the human brain will always do much better:)

As for modifiers, just buy flash heads with the S-fit fitting, and you'll never have to worry about whether or not your modifiers will fit, as long as you avoid the crap. The viable alternative to this is Elinchrom, which is a different fitting that I personally don't like but a lot of people do. There are other, minority fittings too but either S-fit or Elinchrom fit is safe, and future proof, because neither fitting will ever go away.
 
The good news is a starter kit from Lencarta will give you remote control of your studio.

Better still, if you add a Godox v860 ETTL for your on camera needs, a simple receiver will allow you to use the same transmitter to use it off camera.
 
Marc,

it all depends where you want to go with this. I have professional requirements and not having the right kit means no income. For me at this moment in time the best system for integration, range of lights and price is anything from Godox that has the X1 trigger system. That gives me anything from an on camera flash to a mains powered studio light and a battery powered studio light as well as the flashgun on steroids the AD360 - is it for somebody starting out? difficult as it comes down to budget.

Mike
 
Excellent video link on the egg, but there's a very important bit missing - the size of the light source.

I just tried it in a darkened room with a torch and a small piece of tracing paper (or kitchen greaseproof paper). Shine the torch through the paper, which then becomes the much larger light source and shadows are much softer. Move it closer for maximum softening, move it further away and the shadows become harder (size is relative to distance).

Marc, a very good book that often gets recommended is Light, Science & Magic https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product..._mini_detail?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AZJADFZJS9SRB Another good very one is the Speedliter's Handbook https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product..._mini_detail?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AHRB2OK2Q2YCL
 
HoppyUK said:
Excellent video link on the egg, but there's a very important bit missing - the size of the light source.

I just tried it in a darkened room with a torch and a small piece of tracing paper (or kitchen greaseproof paper). Shine the torch through the paper, which then becomes the much larger light source and shadows are much softer. Move it closer for maximum softening, move it further away and the shadows become harder (size is relative to distance).

Marc, a very good book that often gets recommended is Light, Science & Magic https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product..._mini_detail?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AZJADFZJS9SRB Another good very one is the Speedliter's Handbook https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product..._mini_detail?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AHRB2OK2Q2YCL
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Richard,

i had it demonstrated to me by a very good photographer years ago and I demonstrate it when talking about lighting but never made the video yet

Mike
 
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