low-light fashion photography

[jammy_c]

First off, I’m not sure if this should be in this forum, nudes & glamour, or talk lighting, but hey….sure the mods can clear that up though.

I have been asked by a friend to take some photos for their website specialising in corsets, bodices, wedding dresses, lingerie, that sort of thing.
This is fine, but the problem is that these shots must be taken during a “carnival evening”, basically, from what I can surmise, cocktail party with a bunch of models wearing the outfits and prospective clients generally milling around. It’s in a wine-bar type setting and I’m guessing will be relatively busy, cramped and have “mood” lighting, not ideal for photographs, and also not ideal for someone like me who is more adept at shooting rally cars and macro than scantily-clad ladies, nethertheless, I’m up for a new challenge, and currently in the process of making my own DIY Ring-flash adapter to give some more professional looking results.

I’m basically just after some good advice from those of you that have done this type of things before, mostly in terms of lighting and good angles, etc, if you can please, and some general tips.

Equipment:
Nikon D40
17-55 kit lens (not great, generally, but it’s the only wide-ish angle lens I have, so it’ll have to do)
70-300VR lens (good for candid’s and maybe some macro (raynox 250) of the dress details, etc?)
Nissin Di622 Flashgun (which I love, but could do with a bit more practice on)
Ring flash (home-made, a bit pikey, but the last one worked beautifully, and hopefully it’ll look alright in the darkness)

p.s. - Would it be worth trying to borrow a 50mm f1.8 from a friend if he’s willing to lend it? I know they’re good for low-light, but it’s not an AF-S, so will be MF only on my body


Kind Regards,
James.

 

[awp]

You know you don't have the experience or the kit for this job - so why allow yourself to be talked in to it? Just say 'NO'.

 

[jammy_c]

You know you don't have the experience or the kit for this job - so why allow yourself to be talked in to it? Just say 'NO'.

umm, true, but they're a friend who can't afford a professional tog, and I wanted to help them out (free of charge, of course). plus it can expand my experience, I guess. :shrug:

 

[awp]

You don't want to lose a frienc by messing up though - and that is a possibility.
The situation described is not really suitable for photography but you need to get a more detailed brief from your 'client'. Advbise him of the problems with the situation - lighting - other people present - lack of opportunity to direct the models etc

 

[Hypnorm]

I am photographing a friends fashion show on wednesday, similar situation its not something i have done but it is a learning experience for my self, if you are able to get near to the models i would be inclined to try the 50mm. but i would be practicing with it first. The other lenses may not be fast enough for low light and you will end up with movement blur.

But the show that i am helping at also has some pro togs doing other shots so at least if all mine go pear shaped, they still have other shots. i really would make your friend aware that this isnt something you have done before and you would recommend having some others get photos too, is it just a one off thing or will he be doing it again.

 

[jammy_c]

cheers guys, it's a she actually, I'll make her aware of the facts, I think that's a good idea, and make sure that they don't expect too much. he other half is shooting with his canon DSLR and flash, but seems to think that i'll be better after looking at a recent set of pics I took as a guest at my cousins wedding. i like to think i'm fairly handy with PPing, despite lacking kit, and yes...I know that is what makes the real difference.

 

[awp]

it's a she actually

LOL - I thought it might be - so you really don't want to mess up if you want to impress her!!

Good luck with it - and let's see some pics in due course.

 

[jammy_c]

LOL - I thought it might be - so you really don't want to mess up if you want to impress her!!

Good luck with it - and let's see some pics in due course.

on the contrary actually, I'm happily married and her partner is my colleague. I know him far better than her, and i'm more out to improve my own portfolio that impress. believe me.

 

[Kev M]

I'd be concerned that a 50mm on a crop body might be too long if you're in a crowded wine bar full of people. I'd also be concerned trying to MF in a badly lit wine bar too but you might feel differently about MF.

Does your friend want your photos to have all these other people milling around in front or behind the models? If not, can you get there early and find somewhere in the bar to get the shots out of the way before everyone else arrives?

A couple more flashes would be a help so that you could try and put some mock ambient light in there but that may not be an option for you. You might want some gels though so that you can colour balance the flash you do have against with the lighting in the bar. Ignore anyone who says shoot RAW and sort it out later.

Please don't say this is next week so you've got no time to practice or prepare either

 

[jammy_c]

I'd be concerned that a 50mm on a crop body might be too long if you're in a crowded wine bar full of people. I'd also be concerned trying to MF in a badly lit wine bar too but you might feel differently about MF.

Does your friend want your photos to have all these other people milling around in front or behind the models? If not, can you get there early and find somewhere in the bar to get the shots out of the way before everyone else arrives?

A couple more flashes would be a help so that you could try and put some mock ambient light in there but that may not be an option for you. You might want some gels though so that you can colour balance the flash you do have against with the lighting in the bar. Ignore anyone who says shoot RAW and sort it out later.

Please don't say this is next week so you've got no time to practice or prepare either

it's in just over a fortnight, so I can practice a little in the evenings. Unfortunately the D40 i'm using doesn't have a wireless flash commander, and the nissin wouldn't work with it even if it did. some cracking ideas though. one day i'll have some better gear to do that sort of setup (when i've paid off those student debts).

I always shoot in RAW anyway, so that may help me to some degree, but I see what you're saying. what colour gels would you advise?

 

[Marcus Geezer]

Hi James,

Part of work that I have undertaken is at networking events where you have to mingle with the delegates and take shots demonstrating interaction as well as meeting the brief of specific people, speeches, staging shots, etc. You will likely be walking around with your camera plus flash trying to get capture moments and I will say there is a definite art and skill to making sure you get blur free shots which look like you havnt used flash.

I would treat the evening in two parts if I had the choice. Set up a small studio aside from the main room and get some good quality shots of the models and any other proper shots required before the main event.

Then during the main event you have the freedom to roam and get the networking shots. Ideally you need a fast zoom lens and need to be a master of bouncing flash, which you will likely need to do at high-ish ISO. I tend to use the camera in manual mode, lowest F stop, WB = flash, with the speedlite in ETTL sometimes compensating +/- a bit depending on subject etc..

It's taken some practice to get this right.... so good luck!

 

[theMusicMan]

I just don't understand why many people here on tp are so negative. This to me is the scenario where if the OP were to advise his friend of the issues pointed out to him by several togs on this thread, that his friend is 99.99% likely to say OK, no worries and decide they can't afford a tog and no pics get taken.

If James wants to do the job, then that's his choice, and his alone. Let him do it.

He doesn't need permission from anyone on here, neither did he ask for anyones advice on if he should do the job, he asked for advice on actually doing the job - if people are going to reply, why can't people just provide the advice requested instead of jumping on their own experience/expertise and how oh my God are you going to fail if you do this. It's nobody's place to tell him to just say 'No'. Who is anyone to tell him that.

James - good luck to you mate.

 

[jammy_c]

I just don't understand why many people here on tp are so negative. This to me is the scenario where if the OP were to advise his friend of the issues pointed out to him by several togs on this thread, that his friend is 99.99% likely to say OK, no worries and decide they can't afford a tog and no pics get taken.

If James wants to do the job, then that's his choice, and his alone. Let him do it.

He doesn't need permission from anyone on here, neither did he ask for anyones advice on if he should do the job, he asked for advice on actually doing the job - if people are going to reply, why can't people just provide the advice requested instead of jumping on their own experience/expertise and how oh my God are you going to fail if you do this. It's nobody's place to tell him to just say 'No'. Who is anyone to tell him that.

James - good luck to you mate.

Cheers, John.

 

[Kev M]

it's in just over a fortnight, so I can practice a little in the evenings. Unfortunately the D40 i'm using doesn't have a wireless flash commander, and the nissin wouldn't work with it even if it did. some cracking ideas though. one day i'll have some better gear to do that sort of setup (when i've paid off those student debts).

I always shoot in RAW anyway, so that may help me to some degree, but I see what you're saying. what colour gels would you advise?

I wasn't thinking about wireless flash commander, more manual flash and wireless triggers. Probably a bit much to master in a fortnight.

The colour of the gel will really depend on what the light sources are in the club and you'll have to call that when you see them. I suggest a quick search on the strobist website and a search for gels to find some articles. Then get yourself across to flashgels.co.uk and order a set. Yes you can get the free sample packs from Lee but you might not get them in time and they might not be big enough to cover your flash.

I think you've probably got a couple of options. Try and scrounge a fast lens with AF or get your friend to stump up for the hire of one (you are after all saving her a lot of money anyway), or go with your friends MF lens if you think you'll be alright with it (I wouldn't mention this to the designer, let her think you really need the hire lens).

If flash and/or colour balance are going to be a problem for you, crank up the ISO to make sure you get fast enough shutter speeds and convert everything to B&W to hide the noise.

 

[jammy_c]

Hi James,

Part of work that I have undertaken is at networking events where you have to mingle with the delegates and take shots demonstrating interaction as well as meeting the brief of specific people, speeches, staging shots, etc. You will likely be walking around with your camera plus flash trying to get capture moments and I will say there is a definite art and skill to making sure you get blur free shots which look like you havnt used flash.

I would treat the evening in two parts if I had the choice. Set up a small studio aside from the main room and get some good quality shots of the models and any other proper shots required before the main event.

Then during the main event you have the freedom to roam and get the networking shots. Ideally you need a fast zoom lens and need to be a master of bouncing flash, which you will likely need to do at high-ish ISO. I tend to use the camera in manual mode, lowest F stop, WB = flash, with the speedlite in ETTL sometimes compensating +/- a bit depending on subject etc..

It's taken some practice to get this right.... so good luck!

Thanks for the tips they'll come in useful for sure. much appreciated.

 

[awp]

I just don't understand why many people here on tp are so negative.

Not negative - realistic and honest! Saying no is the best advice if you don't have the knowledge or the equipment to do the job properly.

 

[jammy_c]

I wasn't thinking about wireless flash commander, more manual flash and wireless triggers. Probably a bit much to master in a fortnight.

The colour of the gel will really depend on what the light sources are in the club and you'll have to call that when you see them. I suggest a quick search on the strobist website and a search for gels to find some articles. Then get yourself across to flashgels.co.uk and order a set. Yes you can get the free sample packs from Lee but you might not get them in time and they might not be big enough to cover your flash.

I think you've probably got a couple of options. Try and scrounge a fast lens with AF or get your friend to stump up for the hire of one (you are after all saving her a lot of money anyway), or go with your friends MF lens if you think you'll be alright with it (I wouldn't mention this to the designer, let her think you really need the hire lens).

If flash and/or colour balance are going to be a problem for you, crank up the ISO to make sure you get fast enough shutter speeds and convert everything to B&W to hide the noise.

I have some flash gels actually that I could use, i'll see what the lighting is like and take them with me.

Converting to B&W may be a problem for a lot of the shots as she's going to be using the pictures for advertising the products on her website, so i'm guessing the colours will need to be quite accurate.

 

[Kev M]

Converting to B&W may be a problem for a lot of the shots as she's going to be using the pictures for advertising the products on her website, so i'm guessing the colours will need to be quite accurate.

Nah stuff it, why give yourself the headache. Give her what you want and she can like it or lump it.

 

[theMusicMan]

Not negative - realistic and honest! Saying no is the best advice if you don't have the knowledge or the equipment to do the job properly.

I just don't fully get your point though Andrew.

Does everyone take their car to the garage to change their spark plugs.
Does everyone call an electrician to change a fuse.
Does everyone call a plumber to change a washer.
Does everyone call a caterer for their kids parties.
Does everyone call a painter & decorator when their walls need a new decor.
The list is endless...

Of course, there are many variables, but James didn't ask anyone on here for advice on if he should do the job. If you don't have advice for him, or if you just don't want to provide him with that advice, then simply don't. It's easy.

 

[Hypnorm]

But you don't learn anything by saying no.

Ok you make the person aware, that the images may not be 'cover model' shots.

I'm glad i have taken the challenge of this fashion show, its made me learn so much about my camera and photography in the last month or so.
I'm lucky that there are afew other photographers there too, so between us all ther are bound to be some good shots.

 

[SparkUK]

If they can't afford to hire a pro then maybe they could hire you something with better low light ability? A D3 and a fast zoom maybe?

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Unfortunately the D40 i'm using doesn't have a wireless flash commander, and the nissin wouldn't work with it even if it did.

Makes no difference, the flash you have only works as a manual slave, so it's easy enough to reduce the power of your D40's onboard flash and use that to trigger the Di622 "wirelessly". All you'd have to do is adjust the power output of the Nissin to give you a correct exposure.

I'd recommend reading up a bit on dragging the shutter too....

you can get the free sample packs (of gels) from Lee but you might not get them in time and they might not be big enough to cover your flash.

For some strange reason, Lee have stopped sending out free sample packs of gels

 

[jammy_c]

Makes no difference, the flash you have only works as a manual slave, so it's easy enough to reduce the power of your D40's onboard flash and use that to trigger the Di622 "wirelessly". All you'd have to do is adjust the power output of the Nissin to give you a correct exposure.

please explain further..... im confused

 

[jammy_c]

If they can't afford to hire a pro then maybe they could hire you something with better low light ability? A D3 and a fast zoom maybe?

that'd be nice. however, if she did agree to that, which she won't, then surely she'd EXPECT decent pictures in return for her forking out for hire of the equipment? that would put more pressure on me, and the photos would then HAVE to be good, rather than her expecting very little and me being able to produce some half-decent shots with the little I have. D3 would be nice though ummm

 

[Flash In The Pan]

please explain further..... im confused

Put the Di622 into slave mode and the flash on your D40 into manual (if that's possible on the D40) and dial the power down (-ev) on it so that all it's really doing is providing a triggering flash for the Nissin.

 

[jammy_c]

Put the Di622 into slave mode and the flash on your D40 into manual (if that's possible on the D40) and dial the power down (-ev) on it so that all it's really doing is providing a triggering flash for the Nissin.

are you sure you can do that with the Di622? i've not heard of that.

 

[BigJohn]

I think the best bet as already mentioned is to try and see if you can set up an area where you can shoot the models or try to get early access with the models to give you time to bag the crucial shots first . Some nice fashion shots around the bar etc. A good reccy of the place before hand may really help you out on the night . Best of luck .

 

[Flash In The Pan]

It's got an optical slave, right?

 

[BigJohn]

FYI Last sentance ;-
Nissin Di622 Speedlite Key Features:

ETTL II and iTTL Auto Exposure Modes Auto Zoom Function - 24mm to 105mm (16mm with diffuse panel) Bounce and Rotating Head - Bounce, Up: 45, 60, 75, 90° - Rotate Right: 30, 60, 90, 120, 150° - Rotate Left: 20, 60, 90° Diffuser and Reflector - Wide angle diffuser and catch light reflector - Softens the light on the subject Power Ratio - 6 steps, 1:1 to 1:32 Wireless Remote Flash - Built-in slave feature

 

[jammy_c]

Link , Wow! yeah, sorry apparently it has. i've owned mine for over a year and I never knew that! amazing! cool.
sorry to question you, Graham, I should know better. you are the master of Flash!

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Link , Wow! yeah, sorry apparently it has. i've owned mine for over a year and I never knew that! amazing! cool.
sorry to question you, Graham, I should know better. you are the master of Flash!

I only know it does because the question of whether it was CLS-compatible came up in a question on here yesterday, so I went and did a bit of reading up on it.

The alternative would be to chuck it on a set of cheap wireless triggers or better still, if you're nervous about using the flash in manual, a ttl cord...

 

[Kev M]

If you're going to use on camera flash and bounce it get some sort of diffuser, I think the stofen ones are average at best, perhaps see if the Gary Fong lightsphere clones are better.

 

[Phiggys]

Hi James keep it simple to start with if you can do a few trial shots before hand or earlier on the day do that
The beauty of digital is you have the results instantly on your camera unlike the days of film.
Your 18-55mm is a excellent lens and a good all-rounder for such occasions you have perfectly adequate gear at your disposal and I wouldn't hesitate in using your gear to do the shoot.
At least by having ago you will gain practical experience and the next time your called on to do a similar job you will be more confident and experienced.
I will pm you my phone number if I can help in any way please feel free to call me anytime

kind regards
Phil
And best of luck enjoy the occasion

 

[Phiggys]

Hi James just tried to PM you but you have your messages blocked if you want my number just pm me.
Phil

 

[jammy_c]

Hi James keep it simple to start with if you can do a few trial shots before hand or earlier on the day do that
The beauty of digital is you have the results instantly on your camera unlike the days of film.
Your 18-55mm is a excellent lens and a good all-rounder for such occasions you have perfectly adequate gear at your disposal and I wouldn't hesitate in using your gear to do the shoot.
At least by having ago you will gain practical experience and the next time your called on to do a similar job you will be more confident and experienced.
I will pm you my phone number if I can help in any way please feel free to call me anytime

kind regards
Phil
And best of luck enjoy the occasion

Hi Phil, many thanks for the message. it's refeshing to hear something like that from someone blessed with as much kit as you evidently have i'll persevere and see how I get on.
I've just spoken to the friend with the 50mm Prime and he said he's happy to lend it to me, so that should be something else to have a play with on the day
Thanks.

 

[awp]

I just don't fully get your point though Andrew.

Does everyone take their car to the garage to change their spark plugs.
Does everyone call an electrician to change a fuse.
Does everyone call a plumber to change a washer.
Does everyone call a caterer for their kids parties.
Does everyone call a painter & decorator when their walls need a new decor.
The list is endless...

Of course, there are many variables, but James didn't ask anyone on here for advice on if he should do the job. If you don't have advice for him, or if you just don't want to provide him with that advice, then simply don't. It's easy.

None of these things you list are in anyway comparable. Here we have someone doing a job for someone else - NOT for their own amusement/pleasure. That makes a difference.

You can't learn from saying 'no' - but working for a 'client' is not the time to learn - you learn before you do the job. Whatever they say now the 'client' will have expectations which the OP may or may not be able to meet.

 

[Phiggys]

Hi Phil, many thanks for the message. it's refeshing to hear something like that from someone blessed with as much kit as you evidently have i'll persevere and see how I get on.
I've just spoken to the friend with the 50mm Prime and he said he's happy to lend it to me, so that should be something else to have a play with on the day
Thanks.

You've noticed I'm a bit of a collector then James lols
The camera is only as good as the person behind it!
All it does in reality is record what you ask it to .
I had a quick peep in your Gallery and I'm sure you will be fine.

Have a bit of a practice with manual focusing with the 50mm although it won't AF it will give a Green Dot confirmation bottom left of the viewfinder that tells you that you are focussed on your target it's that easy and it won't hunt in low light either !

Phil

 

[Marcus Geezer]

I'm not a Nikon man and I'm not familiar with the flash that will be used but does the flash have AF assist (I'm not sure what it is actually called?) With the lowlight conditions and the fact that people may not stay as still as you want them to I think manual focus may not always be an option?

 

[jammy_c]

I'm not a Nikon man and I'm not familiar with the flash that will be used but does the flash have AF assist (I'm not sure what it is actually called?) With the lowlight conditions and the fact that people may not stay as still as you want them to I think manual focus may not always be an option?

Hi Marcus, yes the flash does have AF assist (I think that's the phrase Nissin use actually). MF will be a PITA, but i'm dying to give it a try, especially as i've been after a nifty for a while now. To be honest I recon the Focal Length will be the biggest issue. always got the short FL of the kit lens for that though!

 

[jammy_c]

You've noticed I'm a bit of a collector then James lols
The camera is only as good as the person behind it!
All it does in reality is record what you ask it to .
I had a quick peep in your Gallery and I'm sure you will be fine.

Have a bit of a practice with manual focusing with the 50mm although it won't AF it will give a Green Dot confirmation bottom left of the viewfinder that tells you that you are focussed on your target it's that easy and it won't hunt in low light either !

Phil

cheers, Phil. the gallery is massively out of date, I should really add some more recent stuff. not 100% if my D40 will do give me the green dot function, but will definely investigate it.