Looking for Advice on Startup Equipment

[*Sam*]

Hi everyone, I'm at the stage now where I want to improve my photography skills and gain some experience in working with lighting and a backdrop in a more studio style. Since I've not got any experience in this then I was hoping that someone here can point me in the right direction.

Ideally, I want to start out with some basic equipment with the idea of steadily increasing it over time. I am willing to spend money on this but don't really want to be spending too much to begin with if thats possible at all.

I'd like a portable setup in which I could take photos of young children (nursery age) and possibly a little older. My initial idea is to get a softbox (or would an umbrella work any better?), backdrop, stand and work up from there. But I didn't know if I'd need a second light to blow out the background and don't really have any idea of what softbox to be looking at. I would like a decent one preferably but that doesn't cost more than my camera its self haha.

In terms of what I have at the moment, I have a Canon 550D, the standard kit lens 18-55mm, a canon 75-300mm lens and also a jessops 300 AFDC flash.

Thanks in advance for any advice,
Samantha

 

[mani]

The lencarta starter kit - for around 330 u get a great set of lights and a softbox which if your looking at buying new is ideal for you - the other comes with an umbrella which can be used to diffuse the shadows.

whats your budget? I looked long and hard but for me it wasnt so much as a softbox i was happier with a more basic set up and to upgrade later

 

[Garry Edwards]

If you're not shooting against a lit background then you need, as a minimum,
1 x flash head with either an umbrella or a softbox
1 x stand to hold the flash head
1 x radio trigger set (to synch it with your camera)
1 x reflector, used to reflect 'spare' light into dark areas of your shots.

But 2 flash heads makes life easier and makes it easier too to create different effects, so your shopping list becomes
2 x flash head with either an umbrella or a softbox
2 x stand to hold the flash head
1 x radio trigger set (to synch it with your camera)
1 x reflector, used to reflect 'spare' light into dark areas of your shots.

If you want a 'studio type background' then of course that involves more equipment, not least of which is extra lighting, because the background becomes a separate subject and so needs to be lit separately. If you want a pure white background you will need another 2 flash heads etc - you will also need more space.

Umbrellas basically make the light larger and so create a softer light. So do softboxes. My general advice, with a 2 head kit, is to get 1 softbox and 1 umbrella. The softbox creates a controlled light that all goes in the same direction, the umbrella is cheap, portable and easy but the light is far less controlled. You can see exactly what all of the various light shaping tools do in this article in the Lencarta Learning Centre

The choice of softbox depends on a few things, including whether or not you have enough space for a big one, personal preference and whether or not you need to take it down after use each time.

It's all about relative size, a small softbox used very close gives a similar effect to a larger one further away, if you want the light to be very soft (not necessary if you're only using it for young children) then you need a large one, as close as possible.

The shape of the softbox controls the shape of the reflection (catchlight) in the eyes, and also controls the directions in which the light spreads out. As general advice, I feel that something like a 1 metre square or octagonal softbox is about right for most people.

If you buy Lencarta, you have a choice of non folding (Chiaro) or folding (ProFold) softboxes. The results are the same, the ProFold cost more but are much better if you need to put them away after use.

 

[HoppyUK]

Great reply from Garry

Says it all really. You can expand on the detail stuff but the basics are all there

Should be made a sticky. Questions like Sam's come up a lot.

 

[*Sam*]

Thankyou very much for the detailed replies! I was looking at getting a background too and after looking at this thread ( http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=313347 ) I couldn't believe that these kinds of photographs could be produced from just one umbrella and one light! I think I have a good idea now about what kinds of things I need by looking at Garry's helpful list. In terms of backgrounds, would you say that getting a paper roll or a muslim cloth is the best way to go?

Another question which might be a bit more complex is regarding radio triggers. I took my camera to a studio not too long ago and had issues getting it to work with a radio trigger when trying to sync it to the softboxes. It worked on my friend's Canon 400d but not with my 550d on all the same settings. The photographer said that he'd never found one that was incompatible before so it was very strange. My question is how do I know if my camera will sync up to the lights which I buy? Will it just sync up to any if I have a radio trigger or is it a bit more complex than that? Sorry, I really have no idea regarding triggers at all as you can probably tell.

Am very greatful for your help,
Sam

 

[HoppyUK]

Thankyou very much for the detailed replies! I was looking at getting a background too and after looking at this thread ( http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=313347 ) I couldn't believe that these kinds of photographs could be produced from just one umbrella and one light! I think I have a good idea now about what kinds of things I need by looking at Garry's helpful list. In terms of backgrounds, would you say that getting a paper roll or a muslim cloth is the best way to go?

Another question which might be a bit more complex is regarding radio triggers. I took my camera to a studio not too long ago and had issues getting it to work with a radio trigger when trying to sync it to the softboxes. It worked on my friend's Canon 400d but not with my 550d on all the same settings. The photographer said that he'd never found one that was incompatible before so it was very strange. My question is how do I know if my camera will sync up to the lights which I buy? Will it just sync up to any if I have a radio trigger or is it a bit more complex than that? Sorry, I really have no idea regarding triggers at all as you can probably tell.

Am very greatful for your help,
Sam

IMHO, the best portraits are often taken with just one light and a reflector, or certainly when one key light is doing the lion's share of the work. This looks natural whereas multiple lights on the main subject usually just cast conflicting shadows which looks a mess. All the other lights should have specific and separate tasks, which you may or may not need, such as the background, a hair light or some other independent effect.

Choice of background is entirely personal. Some people stick with just one or two, while others have every colour of the rainbow, different patterns and textures, different materials. Up to you, there are hundreds about. You can also vary the effect a lot with the light you apply - even make white into black if it's far enough away, or gel the light with colour, that kind of thing.

If you want the popular pure white look, that needs two lights just for the background. If space is tight, the Lastolite HiLite is great for this, and also doubles-up as a regular background support with their 'bottle-top' backgrounds. They're expensive though.

Don't worry about triggers. They will all work fine with your camera and if you don't get one with the kit, they're only about £30, like the Yongnuo RF-602 (Amazon). Hire studios seem to have a bad rep with triggering problems on here, probably because they get used a lot and they never change the batteries, or they maybe get thrown about a bit and the contacts damaged.

My advice - less is more with lighting. Even if you get a two or three light kit (because they're great value) start with just one light and umbrella/softbox, and work with just that and a reflector. Build from there, one step at a time

 

[*Sam*]

IMHO, the best portraits are often taken with just one light and a reflector, or certainly when one key light is doing the lion's share of the work. This looks natural whereas multiple lights on the main subject usually just cast conflicting shadows which looks a mess. All the other lights should have specific and separate tasks, which you may or may not need, such as the background, a hair light or some other independent effect.

Choice of background is entirely personal. Some people stick with just one or two, while others have every colour of the rainbow, different patterns and textures, different materials. Up to you, there are hundreds about. You can also vary the effect a lot with the light you apply - even make white into black if it's far enough away, or gel the light with colour, that kind of thing.

If you want the popular pure white look, that needs two lights just for the background. If space is tight, the Lastolite HiLite is great for this, and also doubles-up as a regular background support with their 'bottle-top' backgrounds. They're expensive though.

Don't worry about triggers. They will all work fine with your camera and if you don't get one with the kit, they're only about £30, like the Yongnuo RF-602 (Amazon). Hire studios seem to have a bad rep with triggering problems on here, probably because they get used a lot and they never change the batteries, or they maybe get thrown about a bit and the contacts damaged.

My advice - less is more with lighting. Even if you get a two or three light kit (because they're great value) start with just one light and umbrella/softbox, and work with just that and a reflector. Build from there, one step at a time

Oh thankyou so much! That's really helped a lot. Okay, so I'm thinking now that I'll purchase a background, stand (I have looked at the Lastolight HiLite and whilst it looks perfect, it's a little out of my price range at the moment for a backdrop alone unfortunately) and then a couple of lights with one softbox/umbrella with the intention of steadily increasing my collection.

The lencarta starter set does look appealing I have to say. What do I need to look for in a lighting set if I was looking around generally if I'm just after one softbox/umbrella light? I mean I have that small jessops hotshoe flash but that won't help me at all here so I'm completely clueless as to what to look for. Obviously I'd need everything from the stand to the actual flash light its self. If I didn't go with Lencarta (but I think I will) then what should I look for in a softbox/umbrella light? Should I look at flash's like the Canon Speedlight 430 EX like in the thread I posted earlier to attach to this softbox/umbrella?

Sam

 

[GR3Z]

I'm interested in how you get on sam, as I'm in the same boat as you, just trying to get a little home studio to take pics of our little boy, Im on tight budget tho, so im trying to do it on the cheap, ive bought I white background and stands of ebay and have a yongnuo flashgun with yongnuo rf603 which work faultless on my 550d which I use to shoot through a brolly, I've got a reflector of eBay too, just need to get two more flash guns to light up the background, hoppy told me that you can use the yongnuo 460 in slave mode so you won't need as many triggers but think might get some anyway.... If you have a flickr account let know and we can compare notes

 

[*Sam*]

Hi GR3Z, I'm not looking to spend too much either since it's going to be expensive enough just to get hold of all the necessary equipment, let alone to make sure they're good quality. My view is to buy everything that I can now which looks good enough to start out with and then slowly upgrade it all at a later date once I'm a bit more knowledgable on exactly how everything works. I just looked up some of the yongnuo flashes/triggers and they are much cheaper than some I've been looking at so I might even buy something similar and see how that works out. I've not purchased anything as of yet since I'm still in the research stage but looking at getting it very soon.

In terms of a background, how much did you pay for that if you don't mind me asking? I've been looking on ebay and fancy getting myself one of the 3m ones since you can use most of them as 2m backgrounds anyway if necessary by removing one of the poles.

Would be great to track progress yes definitely! We're even using the same camera so will be interesting what kind of results we can both achieve. I do have a flickr account but it needs some updating so might try to do that later on today..

 

[Garry Edwards]

Oh thankyou so much! That's really helped a lot. Okay, so I'm thinking now that I'll purchase a background, stand (I have looked at the Lastolight HiLite and whilst it looks perfect, it's a little out of my price range at the moment for a backdrop alone unfortunately) and then a couple of lights with one softbox/umbrella with the intention of steadily increasing my collection.

The lencarta starter set does look appealing I have to say. What do I need to look for in a lighting set if I was looking around generally if I'm just after one softbox/umbrella light? I mean I have that small jessops hotshoe flash but that won't help me at all here so I'm completely clueless as to what to look for. Obviously I'd need everything from the stand to the actual flash light its self. If I didn't go with Lencarta (but I think I will) then what should I look for in a softbox/umbrella light? Should I look at flash's like the Canon Speedlight 430 EX like in the thread I posted earlier to attach to this softbox/umbrella?


Sam

Feel free to give me a ring on Monday, it's usually easier to answer questions by phone.

 

[HoppyUK]

Hi GR3Z, I'm not looking to spend too much either since it's going to be expensive enough just to get hold of all the necessary equipment, let alone to make sure they're good quality. My view is to buy everything that I can now which looks good enough to start out with and then slowly upgrade it all at a later date once I'm a bit more knowledgable on exactly how everything works. I just looked up some of the yongnuo flashes/triggers and they are much cheaper than some I've been looking at so I might even buy something similar and see how that works out. I've not purchased anything as of yet since I'm still in the research stage but looking at getting it very soon.

In terms of a background, how much did you pay for that if you don't mind me asking? I've been looking on ebay and fancy getting myself one of the 3m ones since you can use most of them as 2m backgrounds anyway if necessary by removing one of the poles.

Would be great to track progress yes definitely! We're even using the same camera so will be interesting what kind of results we can both achieve. I do have a flickr account but it needs some updating so might try to do that later on today..

Sam, you and GR3Z want to do much the same thing, at least initially, but are heading down two different roads.

GR3Z is looking at using hot-shoe guns, which are small, cheap (if you go manual Yongnuo and not Canon) and very portable. Hot-shoe guns also have auto-TTL too of course, and high speed sync etc but you don't need that here. Crucially, they don't have much power, and don't have a modelling light which I think is essential for learning and going beyond the absolute basics.

And recyling is slow, because you need them flat out most of the time, sometimes painfully slow. You will be surprised how fast expressions change and when the gun won't fire, or even worse goes off at low output, not only do you miss the shot, it's very frustrating and you look like an amateur.

Hot-shoe guns are great at many things and you can work them alongside studio heads for effect lights etc, but if you have access to mains power then studio lights win every time. Most folks already have a decent gun anyway, which obviously helps, and if you haven't got one then spending a few quid on say a Canon 580EXII (or two) will be money well invested in all aspects of your photography. I did a family shoot recently where they wanted a more natural look in the garden. I used a 580EX on E-TTL with a brolly on a bracket (very unwieldy but totally mobile) and it worked great - just couldn't have done it with studio lights.

Phone Garry, and TBH just do what he says. Good honest advice and he's a rubbish salesman, which is a good combination You will probably end up with Lencarta Smartflash, but there's nothing wrong with that at all - great value - and it doesn't close any doors for the future. I personally think the Elite Pro 300 is worth paying a bit extra for, mainly for the variable modelling light, but it's a relative detail. One of those and two Smartflashes would probably be all you ever need, but it depends on budget of course and you need to spent a bit on some quality modifiers like one of their nice folding softboxes. It all adds up

 

[*Sam*]

Sam, you and GR3Z want to do much the same thing, at least initially, but are heading down two different roads.

GR3Z is looking at using hot-shoe guns, which are small, cheap (if you go manual Yongnuo and not Canon) and very portable. Hot-shoe guns also have auto-TTL too of course, and high speed sync etc but you don't need that here. Crucially, they don't have much power, and don't have a modelling light which I think is essential for learning and going beyond the absolute basics.

And recyling is slow, because you need them flat out most of the time, sometimes painfully slow. You will be surprised how fast expressions change and when the gun won't fire, or even worse goes off at low output, not only do you miss the shot, it's very frustrating and you look like an amateur.

Hot-shoe guns are great at many things and you can work them alongside studio heads for effect lights etc, but if you have access to mains power then studio lights win every time. Most folks already have a decent gun anyway, which obviously helps, and if you haven't got one then spending a few quid on say a Canon 580EXII (or two) will be money well invested in all aspects of your photography. I did a family shoot recently where they wanted a more natural look in the garden. I used a 580EX on E-TTL with a brolly on a bracket (very unwieldy but totally mobile) and it worked great - just couldn't have done it with studio lights.

Phone Garry, and TBH just do what he says. Good honest advice and he's a rubbish salesman, which is a good combination You will probably end up with Lencarta Smartflash, but there's nothing wrong with that at all - great value - and it doesn't close any doors for the future. I personally think the Elite Pro 300 is worth paying a bit extra for, mainly for the variable modelling light, but it's a relative detail. One of those and two Smartflashes would probably be all you ever need, but it depends on budget of course and you need to spent a bit on some quality modifiers like one of their nice folding softboxes. It all adds up

Thanks for that Garry, much appreciated! If I get chance on Monday then I'll definitely give you a ring

Hoppy, am very greatful for you breaking all this down for me, it's a real help. I actually did a studio shoot yesterday in the same studio as before which I hired out and it very soon became apparent that I need a better external flash than the small jessops one I have. Due to the radio triggers not working, I was using the jessops flash to fire the large softboxes and it actually worked really well other than the fact that the flash needed a while between each shot to gt ready again so that was a real let down. If I was to purchase a Canon 430 EX II or a Canon 580 EX then would this be much quicker and allow me to take 2 shots close together? The jessops one literally allowed me to do one photo and then it needed a good few seconds to re-charge which was very annoying. It was only a test shoot with cousins so didn't matter but obviously if people are paying me to do this kind of work then I need to have the real kit. Would one of these Canon flashes get rid of this problem do you know? I could also then get an umbrella and stand etc to use it as a studio light on its own with a trigger if I was to set up my own portable studio so would be an investment

 

[Garry Edwards]

Some hotshoe flashes will recycle more quickly than others but they're all slow, especially when used at full power, so the problem will still be there.

The best way of triggering studio flashes is with a radio trigger set - the transmitter goes into the hotshoe on the camera, the receiver goes into one of the studio flashes and all other studio flashes then act as slaves. Simple and foolproof and, unlike a hotshoe flash, the radio trigger doesn't produce any unwanted light that can affect the shot.

 

[HoppyUK]

Thanks for that Garry, much appreciated! If I get chance on Monday then I'll definitely give you a ring

Hoppy, am very greatful for you breaking all this down for me, it's a real help. I actually did a studio shoot yesterday in the same studio as before which I hired out and it very soon became apparent that I need a better external flash than the small jessops one I have. Due to the radio triggers not working, I was using the jessops flash to fire the large softboxes and it actually worked really well other than the fact that the flash needed a while between each shot to gt ready again so that was a real let down. If I was to purchase a Canon 430 EX II or a Canon 580 EX then would this be much quicker and allow me to take 2 shots close together? The jessops one literally allowed me to do one photo and then it needed a good few seconds to re-charge which was very annoying. It was only a test shoot with cousins so didn't matter but obviously if people are paying me to do this kind of work then I need to have the real kit. Would one of these Canon flashes get rid of this problem do you know? I could also then get an umbrella and stand etc to use it as a studio light on its own with a trigger if I was to set up my own portable studio so would be an investment

You've lost me a bit there Sam, or maybe I've led you up the garden path with talk of hot-shoe guns. Not quite sure what it is you want to do, how you want to do it, or your budget. Speak to Garry.

If you already have a decent hot-shoe gun - and you should have, because they are so useful for so many things - then it can be pressed into service for limited studio style stuff. But it's far from ideal, for the reasons given above and as you have discovered, if studio working is the priority. (Though they can be handy to use as an extra 'effects' light, when your don't need much power and can manage without a modelling light).

Re-reading your first post, maybe you should just go for Garry's option one. It will do very well what you want based on the link that inspired you, will be a great learning platform, and closes no doors. Plus it's cheap (eg Lencarta Smartflash).

Learn, build, develop. You will quickly find out how you want to progress, which could be in a number of directions equipment wise, or indeed if that's all you want or need.