Long Working Hours in the news

[lindsay]

I've read a couple of stories on the BBC Online about the junior Goldman Sachs staff complaining about their working hours. I've no sympathy for them myself, can't take a joke shouldn't have joined. Everyone knows that investment banking is a lifestyle not a job, and GS is at the top of that tree in terms of rewards for sacrificing your life to the hive.

There are of course, as per todays story, other more mundane businesses that just take the p*Ss - a call centre charity fundraiser, todays example.

But I think most of us know that early in your career, you are expected to put in extra hours and effort to climb the greasy pole. 30 odd years ago I was routinely doing 6/7 days a week, 60 to 80 hours a week; it's what you did in IT in those days to make money and get contract renewals. I knew one guy in about 1994, a developer, doing 100 hours a week at Numura Bank, aiming to pay off his £500k mortgage before he was 30. That's if he didn't die first of course!

 

[Ricardodaforce]

I think in a civilised society we have a right to a civilised work/life balance.
I’ll be watching with interest the experimental 4 day working week they are introducing in the Valencian Community from this week.

 

[BADGER.BRAD]

I worked as a lorry driver for years putting in 80 hours or so a week (don't let bull sh#t tacho laws fool you) I never knew when I was getting home or if I would. This I did till I was about 40. I now own two houses out right ( due to hard work) and I never have the need to go back to that. .I am now able to take an easy job with short hours have my pension sorted and and have another easy income from my other house + money in the bank. That said I hear of a crash on the motorway and often think how can some of these guys go for 20+ years at that amount of hours without losing concentration, these laws need to be changed. As far as I'm concerned if you don't like it get out and do something else like I did.

 

[munch]

I have mixed feelings over this. Ask any sheep farmer how many hours they are currently working. I suspect 80 hours would seem a luxury. Ask them the same question in July and the answer would be different. I agree that working extra hours is usually seen as necessary in people's early careers, be that additional hours at work or gaining more qualifications. Unfortunately, there is also an element of people being put on. People not feeling empowered enough to say no, or even of course I can do X for you but what do you want me to do with Y and Z.

Different people work in different ways, I quite enjoyed a bit of pressure at work and the job I had, didn't lend itself to just being able to say it is 17:00 I am off (much to my families concatenation at times) Even when I wasn't at work I was expected to be contactable. Now whilst at one level I loved the job, I was aware that if I didn't change what I was doing, I was going to die before I retired So I retired early (just before I reached my 56h birthday)

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

it's what you did in IT in those days to make money and get contract renewals

I only did long hours if I was on an hourly contract. If I was on a day rate I did my day, whatever it was, and logged off. It didn't appear to harm my business to be strict about this because my contracts were generally renewed at least once.

 

[tijuana taxi]

Always worked as few hours as I could (always under 40 and no weekends) preferred to spend time enjoying life, only get one go at it.
Didn't want to be one of those parents who regretted seeing their children grow up, glad i didn't it was great fun.
Retired 8 years ago just shy of 55, wanted to enjoy some time before i'm knackered, glad I did now with the virus restrictions.

Only own one house outright though, mind you don't know what I would do with any more.

 

[Mr Bump]

Oddly enough the hours/overtime/long days were the reason I quit my permie job and went self employed 21 years ago.
Being in IT and having a good salary but working longer hours diluted that to the point i was not on a great hourly rate.
All my contracts are nailed down to hourly/daily rate/how many defined hours in a day etc.
I will never be a hive slave, no way

 

[RichardC27]

I think in a civilised society we have a right to a civilised work/life balance.
I’ll be watching with interest the experimental 4 day working week they are introducing in the Valencian Community from this week.

This. I've never subscribed to the long hours culture we seem to be so enamoured with in this country and it's never harmed my career. I used to work at a now defunct mobile phone retailer's head office, which was fully versed in the long hours, presenteeism culture. I never got involved in any of that, I worked my allotted hours, took my breaks and went home on time almost every day. All of my work was still done to the required standard. The guy I took over my current job from used to come into the office at 7am, work through his lunch and go home beyond 6pm every night and I really couldn't see why. He just felt he needed to put in long hours and the work expanded to fill that time. I've certainly never had to work anything like those hours and I've improved the product quite markedly since taking over. So the long hours were completely unnecessary.

I tend to look at things the other way around. If I had staff routinely working 45, 50, 55 hour weeks I would be asking why they couldn't get their work done in the allotted time. It's interesting that a few people have said that you need to put in long hours early in your career, which is just a symptom of the problem. Why does the number of hours you work matter?

Work to live not live to work. Quite frankly if I was being asked to work 80 or 90 hours a week I'd just go and do something else. In the bankers case, what's the point in earning big salaries if you're either at work or asleep? When do you get to enjoy all the money you're earning?

Obviously this applies to salaried positions. If you're paid by the hour then obviously the more hours you put in the more you get paid so it's a different calculation

 

[Marc]

I've always worked my contracted hours, the only exception is, if certain tasks need to be completed that day and there has been a delay. I couldn't in good conscience just walk out just because it's 5 o'clock.

I used to have a line manager who question why I left work on time every day. When I asked why she was questioning it, she said that it looked bad.

 

[mj4456]

When I last worked in the coal mining industry-20 years ago- we normally worked 85+ hours a week, 7 days a week profession and worker numbers had been decimated but the customer still needed the same amount of coal, numbers went from 3000 ish to maybe 600, better machinery and easier coal seams meant this was possible but you can’t change the hours in a week in a job that always has something to do, produce coal and maintain machinery and the mine workings too. Good money from o/t and bonus mean I have a great pension but was my copd illness caused by the long hours underground? too late to worry about that now, I did them because I could and enjoyed the things the money brought, The future is far away when you’re young not considering it.

 

[Jelster]

Over the past 3 months my wife has studied online and got accredited as carer. Monday before last she started work in a local care home, 3 x 12 hour shifts plus extra for hand over. She's being paid a little over the national wage, and she gets 2 x 10 minute breaks in that time, no formal meal break. She could have just one 20 minute break instead. No wonder they find it hard to recruit for the roles. Crap money and crap conditions, but she wants to have a go at it.

 

[Jelster]

I've always worked my contracted hours, the only exception is, if certain tasks need to be completed that day and there has been a delay. I couldn't in good conscience just walk out just because it's 5 o'clock.

I used to have a line manager who question why I left work on time every day. When I asked why she was questioning it, she said that it looked bad.

In my last role selling IT services in the City, I would generally leave just before 5. It meant that I could get to my local station just in time for my wife finishing work, and she worked 2 minutes from the station. I was at my desk by 07.15 every morning though, and rarely took a lunch break unless it was with a customer. A manager (not mine) asked me "How come you get away with leaving early all the time?" To which my boss replied "He's here 2 hours before you every day, and he's our top salesman, so if he wants to leave at ten to five, he can..."

Some people just don't understand, they think you have to be "late in the office" to get ahead. Sure, I've been there past midnight getting a tender response done that had to be in early the next morning, but you work smart, not all the hours in the day.

 

[RichardC27]

Some people just don't understand, they think you have to be "late in the office" to get ahead. Sure, I've been there past midnight getting a tender response done that had to be in early the next morning, but you work smart, not all the hours in the day.

Exactly. I've been in the office at 6:30am, I've still been in the office at 7:30pm, when it's required to get a job done. I won't do that all the time though just to make it look like I'm busy.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Oddly enough, I did work bank holidays, whenever a client needed someone to cover. Much better to be playing with computers than messing around in traffic jams!

 

[Box Brownie]

Over the past 3 months my wife has studied online and got accredited as carer. Monday before last she started work in a local care home, 3 x 12 hour shifts plus extra for hand over. She's being paid a little over the national wage, and she gets 2 x 10 minute breaks in that time, no formal meal break. She could have just one 20 minute break instead. No wonder they find it hard to recruit for the roles. Crap money and crap conditions, but she wants to have a go at it.

I had to look that up....on the .gov website
Rest breaks at work
Workers have the right to one uninterrupted 20 minute rest break during their working day, if they work more than 6 hours a day. This could be a tea or lunch break.

The break doesn’t have to be paid - it depends on their employment contract.

So, even if the working day is twice the min of 6 hours to get the 20 min break.....................it is still only a 20 min break by law, presumably with an employer allowing discretionary breaks 'as the see fit'. Appalling :banghead: If ever there was a need for more refined legislation, this is one example!!!!

 

[mj4456]

My mother is in a carehome, the staff are superb and there’s is enough staff to ensure all the staff get a coffee /smoke break every couple of hours, as well as a meal break, must depend on the employers and I’d encourage your wife to look to another home for a job, they are not the same, hers just seem very bad.

 

[lindsay]

My wife used to be a home carer for a county council, but was on a zero hours contract at 5% above minimum wage, the 5% being in compensation for no holiday pay. She had work sessions typically at 7-9am, 12-2pm, 7-9pm dependent on her client load, no travelling time, working 7 days a week with every other weekend off. So not long actual hours of work, but utterly unreasonable working terms, especially when at one point she only had 2 clients for 3 daily 15 minute sessions. She got into debt trying to live on that, and yet couldn't claim any benefits because she did just too much work to qualify. \Thread drift about carer ts and cs.

 

[Jelster]

I had to look that up....on the .gov website
Rest breaks at work
Workers have the right to one uninterrupted 20 minute rest break during their working day, if they work more than 6 hours a day. This could be a tea or lunch break.

The break doesn’t have to be paid - it depends on their employment contract.

So, even if the working day is twice the min of 6 hours to get the 20 min break.....................it is still only a 20 min break by law, presumably with an employer allowing discretionary breaks 'as the see fit'. Appalling :banghead: If ever there was a need for more refined legislation, this is one example!!!!

She's allowed a single 20 minute break, or two each of 10 minutes. Not sure if they're allowed "fag breaks", but as neither of us smoke, it's not something she can get anyway. (And that's another pet peeve of mine, "fag breaks". All these people working late must be to making up for the countless fag breaks they have!)

 

[Box Brownie]

She's allowed a single 20 minute break, or two each of 10 minutes. Not sure if they're allowed "fag breaks", but as neither of us smoke, it's not something she can get anyway. (And that's another pet peeve of mine, "fag breaks". All these people working late must be to making up for the countless fag breaks they have!)

At a tangent ~ when I worked in the NHS, as a path lab technician, in the early 1970's and then I went on the night duty rota (thinking about what I heard re: 'sleeping shifts' & pay for care home workers) the cycle was "work a day> night shift> work next day" with a bedroom available with a phone in the room and as I recall 2 bleepers. Now granted we did not called out too often.....but though rare there were some nights I was lucky to get any sleep. But sleep did not come easily due to 'fear' of the callout. I was paid 1.5x rate of pay.

 

[gman]

I've always worked my contracted hours, the only exception is, if certain tasks need to be completed that day and there has been a delay. I couldn't in good conscience just walk out just because it's 5 o'clock.

I used to have a line manager who question why I left work on time every day. When I asked why she was questioning it, she said that it looked bad.

This I agree with.

In my experience, when you volunteer unpaid overtime it becomes expected and ultimately unappreciated, otherwise you'd get paid properly for it. I was stupid enough to fall for this when I was young. I've found that when someone sticks to their regular hours it is far more noticeable and appreciated when on the odd time they stay on late to get a deadline met.

 

[JonathanRyan]

In Germany, if you work 40 hours a week or more, people assume you are incompetent.

Nobody has ever had cause to question my competency....