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djaphoto

djaphoto

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Dan
Edit My Images
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...lol

Somehow I don't think a photo credit helps pay the bills, do you?

Response from my local paper regarding some photos I will be taking tomorrow at a local cup game.

Asked if they would be interested in any for their paper:

''Hi Daniel,

We would be interested, and could do it in exchange for a photo credit.

Would this be sufficient?

Regards,''
 
•
NO WAY!
 
Granted they've not yet seen the photo and it may not be worthy of using but I somehow feel they would ask just to credit it regardless of how good the image was lol.
 
I was polite as per Kipax's advice and got this reply.

''Hi Daniel, unfortunately we would not be able to pay for this particular job.

Please do let us know what matches you cover in future weeks and hopefully an opportunity will arise.

Regards,

Derek''
 
Interestingly, my local rag used to provide about 8 pages of cricket scores, photos, and tables, all very comprehensively, then they got taken over and its all gone unless we provide the pics and match reports. Since the Sussex league is very competitive, and you don't want it dominated by you're local rivals, my son does all the match reports (4 sat. teams) and I provide the photos. Naturally the paper gets it all for nothing, and the rest of the paper is full of adverts....basically, its all gone down hill and we are screwed, from having a paper that we used to really enjoy buying, to a heap of garbage
 
djaphoto said:
I was polite as per Kipax's advice and got this reply.

''Hi Daniel, unfortunately we would not be able to pay for this particular job.

Please do let us know what matches you cover in future weeks and hopefully an opportunity will arise.

Regards,

Derek''
Click to expand...


So theers a sniff for the future.. there wouldnt have been with a less than nice response :)
 
One of my local papers stopped paying for local football in the last month or so... 4 of the last 5 weeks they ahve used the same large (quarter of a page at least) picture of the same player and cycled about 3 other pics... man of the moment player they ahve used old stock from a different club so different team... its all gone to pot...but they aint getting anything for free and i have spoken to club and other photogrpahers... they either carry on with the same few pics every week or they pay... there isnt another option..
 
oldandintheway said:
Since the Sussex league is very competitive, and you don't want it dominated by you're local rivals, my son does all the match reports (4 sat. teams) and I provide the photos. Naturally the paper gets it all for nothing
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That's the thing they have worked out that people are willing to provide it for free on a volunteer basis.

Good advice from kipax, hopefully maybe something for the future.
 
rob-nikon said:
That's the thing they have worked out that people are willing to provide it for free on a volunteer basis.

Good advice from kipax, hopefully maybe something for the future.
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I agree, with you both, but you just feel, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place...
I would boycott them, but another foolhardy club will just fill the space, for self-promotion.
I hope you get what/where you want to be with this
 
oldandintheway said:
I agree, with you both, but you just feel, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place...
I would boycott them, but another foolhardy club will just fill the space, for self-promotion.
I hope you get what/where you want to be with this
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That's understandable to think like that. Having been involved in running a local sports team I understand your point, it's just a shame the papers don't provide a little something for doing it for them. Sadly it's a similar situation with our local FA, they want you to provide your time for nothing but are quick to 'fine' you if you don't do it right or if it's late even though you are not paid for doing it.
 
rob-nikon said:
That's understandable to think like that. Having been involved in running a local sports team I understand your point, it's just a shame the papers don't provide a little something for doing it for them. Sadly it's a similar situation with our local FA, they want you to provide your time for nothing but are quick to 'fine' you if you don't do it right or if it's late even though you are not paid for doing it.
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You're teams get promotion, as all ours have over the last couple of years , and the pressure is really on. My 'Village Team' are up there with the best 10 clubs in the county, due to massive hard work behind the scenes.. the pressure to keep a large county wide profile in the press is enormous, but the press won't do anything for you....unless you do it yourself!!. Im lucky, in that my club has some 300 members across all age groups so its relatively easy to cajole members to promote ourselves. Right, rant over, Im off to the County Ground, for a free lunch........and I think I deserve it!
 
KIPAX said:
One of my local papers stopped paying for local football in the last month or so... 4 of the last 5 weeks they ahve used the same large (quarter of a page at least) picture of the same player and cycled about 3 other pics... man of the moment player they ahve used old stock from a different club so different team... its all gone to pot...but they aint getting anything for free and i have spoken to club and other photogrpahers... they either carry on with the same few pics every week or they pay... there isnt another option..
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I don't think they care cos all they are interested in is 'Advertising Revenue"
 
Gary Coyle said:
Note to myself: keep calm................................................................
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Absolutely right Gary. It doesn't bother me, because the club you play for, support, nurture and promote is more important than the dimwits who run the local rag.
Wouldn't it be ironic if your first eleven got in the premiership and were asked for an interview and you said ' Yes Ill give an interview..thats £500 please'
 
I am having the same problem with a local paper down in deepest Dorset. last season i was asked if i would be willing to go along and and take Pictures of my local Non league team who i have supported for over 40 years. The reason was no one had taken pictures for them for 2 years. I was told it would be unpaid voluntary work but i would be given free pitch side access and if i wanted to go to any away trips the Press pass and team coach travel would be free and sorted out, the pictures would go into the match day programme, website, Facebook etc, and if anyone wanted to use any of my pictures other than the club they would be put in contact with me to sort out use terms.
After a reserve game the club posted one of my pictures and the local paper saw it and contacted me asking to use it giving me a name credit. I emailed back asking what the file size would be as it was the first time i had been asked to supply anything also what was the going rate to use my picture. They never emailed back to me instead went behind my back to the person at the club they had always dealt with and told them they wanted the picture but wont pay and as they give free advertising to the club and for the past 2 years had given many free pictures they wanted the club to tell me to send them free.
As it was the first time i emailed the club straight back saying that i would only do it this time as they had told the paper they would tell me to send them even though i told the club no payment no use. i knew sending the picture could cause problems sending for free but in the email it was attached too was very clearly put to them that in future no payment means no use. After the season finished they contacted me again asking for another picture i told them clearly but politely that they had been told last time no payment no use and that they went behind my back last time to the club and i was very unhappy about that.. You guessed it they went behind my back again but this time to someone else as the other person had left. Again the club said to send pictures but when i emailed the person at the club they said they had only been doing the job for a week and thought that was how it was done When i explained about why they should pay the person was Horrified for what they had done and was willing to pay me out of his own pocket.
I know at 3 away games this season i have been too the paper has contacted the Home club/photographer to see if they would send in pictures for them to use in the Monday's sport pull out. Twice the photographers have said yes and just accepted a name credit the 3rd one said no so they got pictures off the local paper.
I know i am doing what i believe is correct in holding out for payment but feel like i am missing out in being able to cover other local sports for the paper because they wont use me. It is a very heated subject on the web about what is right and wrong but feel like i am missing out when other club photographers send their pictures of my team away from home when i wont send them although i was there.
At the end of September the paper asked this person again if i could send some pictures to them using their standard terms with a name credit, fair play to him he sent me a copy of the email from them and also copied me into the reply so i could see what was said, he told them clearly to contact me now and in the future for any enquiries with regards to using my pictures also he put i would contact them with my terms and conditions for using my pictures.
So i sent them an email politely explaining that twice last season they had asked for pictures when i replied that i had both times i asked them for the file size and Going rate they had ignored me and gone behind my back to the club and what ever name you call it Bullied the club into telling me to send pictures for free.
I said by asking for the going rate it was a chance for them to say how much they would be willing to pay per picture this would have been open for more negotiations until we were both happy, but as they went behind my back both times last year and did not even have the courtesy to even get back to me i was giving them my price per picture (which i researched on many sites) and said there was no negotiations as it was a fair and realistic price for a regional paper to pay and if they were unable to find any of their budget towards paying for my pictures i am unable to help them out as a name credit does not pay towards costs.
Today i have been contacted again to say they are sorry not to be able to use my pictures as they running their budget to the max and can not afford my pictures so i emailed them back saying i was sorry their budget would not allow them to pay to use my pictures but if things change with their budget in the future and they could find a way to pay then i would be happy to talk again.
Again i know its a very heated subject and every one has their own view as to whether to give for free or charge
Just another fed up club Photographer doing something i love for the love of the club i have supported for over 40 years. Just thought i would put my feelings forwards.
Phil
 
Jeez,thats a long rant Stan, but it sums up the whole situation perfectly. Personally Im waiting till our first VI get into the prem. (our 2nds are there) and I will call the shots, esp. if I see them steal them!
 
I'm beginning to think that if you decide are not going to hand out your pics for free to the local rag, getting your own pics out there on social media is a way to go. Sod the local press, I don't think the local freebie papers get more than a cursory glance then straight in the recycling - at least mine does! Social media seems to have more longevity. Particularly if something interesting happens in the game or they are on the up and up. Get your pics out there to the people who are interested. Watermark your pics, put in copyright and payment details and no free use in the file info.

There is also the issue of IF you agree to shoot for the club on a volunteer basis, make it clear what they can do with the pics. Use them in the programme, posters etc but not in the local press. Seems not an unfair requirement. Hardly any clubs DON'T have a website, facebook and twitter. Make use of it. They can publish your images that way.
 
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At the start of the season I was asked by the club I shoot for a little to provide a couple of shots including the team photo to the local rag, which I didn't mind doing as they only ever ask for 6 photos each match for their programmes and they've done a fair bit to help me out too. The editor had turned up with a point and shoot at the next match and we got to talking. The action photo I provided went half page on the back page and the chap was delighted and started asking if I could do more. So I asked about fees and the answer was the expected "we'll give you a credit but there's no money in the budget". So now they run an article every week without any photos at all (at least none of mine).
 
Juts for the record and because I dont care:)

I gave free pics to the paper when I started because I didnt know any better or didn't understand ... No facebook and not on a forum like this.
Wasn't long before I was educated
I stopped

I understand when the above happens to other people so I dont go off on one at them..

What I don't understand is when people have been educated and its all been explained.. not only do they carry on doing it.. they seem to take great delight in coming onto forums like this and telling everyone how they give free pics and why .. people like that need a good slap right between there eyes :(.
 
KIPAX said:
I gave free pics to the paper when I started because I didnt know any better or didn't understand ... No facebook and not on a forum like this.
Wasn't long before I was educated
I stopped
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I was a member of a press photographers' forum at the time, your actions were not appreciated by some, along with your dogged insistence that your way was the absolute correct way.
It's of little concern to me then and now, but it's good to see you eventually re-evaluated things.
 
Please educate me, what is so wrong in someone taking some pics purely as a hobby and then sending a few to a local paper. There are some of us out here who just enjoy taking pics and like to show them off, be that in the local press or Internet or whatever. We don't all do it for personal gain, ie money, we do it as a hobby. I use to frequent the local whore house, cost me a small fortune until I found out that Sheila round the corner was providing a similar service free of charge all because she enjoyed it! I think she called it her hobby! Turns out she was a lot better than some of the ones I was paying good money for.[emoji12]
 
TonyHall said:
I was a member of a press photographers' forum at the time, your actions were not appreciated by some, along with your dogged insistence that your way was the absolute correct way.
It's of little concern to me then and now, but it's good to see you eventually re-evaluated things.
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He already said it wasnt long before he was educated to doing thngs right so why the need for the snide sanctimonious crap, like he says, i bet you never had the balls to front him, the internet was and still is to a lesser extent rife with superior types like you and that spineless plonker Howarth
 
latestarter said:
Sorry…
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•
As a hobbyists, if you want to give your time doing pictures for people who
would otherwise never able to pay for them, its fine with me.
But…
 
KIPAX said:
Juts for the record and because I dont care:)

I gave free pics to the paper when I started because I didnt know any better or didn't understand ... No facebook and not on a forum like this.
Wasn't long before I was educated
I stopped

I understand when the above happens to other people so I dont go off on one at them..

What I don't understand is when people have been educated and its all been explained.. not only do they carry on doing it.. they seem to take great delight in coming onto forums like this and telling everyone how they give free pics and why .. people like that need a good slap right between there eyes :(.
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A confession he has "Done Free" you naughty boy! :runaway:
 
It's just what I call "Bay City Roller syndrom" I know I am Old! Anything for fame( low self esteem ?) then years later when there is no money and the recognition did not pay the gas man it's start crying that you should have been paid.
 
latestarter said:
Please educate me, what is so wrong in someone taking some pics purely as a hobby and then sending a few to a local paper.
Click to expand...

It depends on the situation and whether or not there was a working photographer present. My local papers are now used to not paying for photos as there are people out there who like seeing their name in print who have supplied images from the same events that I attend. The problem then comes when these people don't attend as many events yet the papers still want photos for free, I/other working photographers say no and the paper either doesn't run the article or they do so without photos.

It gets worse as well when the papers start asking these free photographers to shoot specific assignments and expect the photographer to pay any expenses, and they do it!

I feel it also leads people on a bit. People believe that their photos are being used because they're the best the paper has received (and of course any praise from the editor), yet more often than not the reality is they're being used because they're the perfect price.
 
latestarter said:
Sorry but didn't help. Missed the bit about doing things as a hobby and for enjoyment.
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The way I see it, if you're a hobbyist, take pictures for a hobby. Don't pretend you are a 'professional'. Take your pics, enjoy your pics. I've heard the argument "they're my pictures, I'll do what I want with them" before. Deep sigh. I'm not a professional, and I will NOT submit to the press for free. I don't want the death throes and demise of the remaining local press photographers on my conscience.
 
Photodiva said:
The way I see it, if you're a hobbyist, take pictures for a hobby. Don't pretend you are a 'professional'. Take your pics, enjoy your pics. I've heard the argument "they're my pictures, I'll do what I want with them" before. Deep sigh. I'm not a professional, and I will NOT submit to the press for free. I don't want the death throes and demise of the remaining local press photographers on my conscience.
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They never said anything about pretending to be a professional.

Remember all those kids who used to send pictures in to the Gallery on Tony Hart's program all those years ago? It's no different, people like to be given attention.

Local press photographers were a thing once. Paying for news papers was also a thing. Not so much now.

Being a professional means earning a living, and that means getting paid for something that can not otherwise be obtained for free.

Stopping others providing things for free is not the answer. Finding something worth being paid for is.
 
Toggerman said:
It depends on the situation and whether or not there was a working photographer present. My local papers are now used to not paying for photos as there are people out there who like seeing their name in print who have supplied images from the same events that I attend. The problem then comes when these people don't attend as many events yet the papers still want photos for free, I/other working photographers say no and the paper either doesn't run the article or they do so without photos.

It gets worse as well when the papers start asking these free photographers to shoot specific assignments and expect the photographer to pay any expenses, and they do it!

I feel it also leads people on a bit. People believe that their photos are being used because they're the best the paper has received (and of course any praise from the editor), yet more often than not the reality is they're being used because they're the perfect price.
Click to expand...

Thanks Toggerman, however not so sure it makes any difference who is there taking pics at the same time as me. I think things are changing for the pro photographer. These days it is all too easy to arm yourself with a decent camera for not a great deal of money and take fairly decent pics, in the past this was not the case and pros could charge a fee to the press for their services. That is changing, like it or not. The way I see it is that the pro photographer has got to up his game and deliver better quality pics than a photographer who does it just for a hobby/enjoyment. There is also the problem for pros where most of us these days have a decent camera on their phone so mum & dad can get a decent pic of Tommy kicking the ball and don't really need the pro photographer or his website.
There will always be certain cases where a pro will outshine a hobbyist or joe blogs with his iPhone but these are becoming fewer and fewer.
Times are changing, not necessarily for the better when it comes to making money from the odd local footie game etc.
Don't shoot me just my perception on things.[emoji16]
 
Photodiva said:
The way I see it, if you're a hobbyist, take pictures for a hobby. Don't pretend you are a 'professional'. Take your pics, enjoy your pics. I've heard the argument "they're my pictures, I'll do what I want with them" before. Deep sigh. I'm not a professional, and I will NOT submit to the press for free. I don't want the death throes and demise of the remaining local press photographers on my conscience.
Click to expand...

Never once have I pretended to be a professional photographer. Not something I aspire to, sounds like bloody hard work and a lot of hassle. Think I will stick to enjoying it.
 
latestarter said:
Thanks Toggerman, however not so sure it makes any difference who is there taking pics at the same time as me. I think things are changing for the pro photographer. These days it is all too easy to arm yourself with a decent camera for not a great deal of money and take fairly decent pics, in the past this was not the case and pros could charge a fee to the press for their services. That is changing, like it or not. The way I see it is that the pro photographer has got to up his game and deliver better quality pics than a photographer who does it just for a hobby/enjoyment. There is also the problem for pros where most of us these days have a decent camera on their phone so mum & dad can get a decent pic of Tommy kicking the ball and don't really need the pro photographer or his website.
There will always be certain cases where a pro will outshine a hobbyist or joe blogs with his iPhone but these are becoming fewer and fewer.
Times are changing, not necessarily for the better when it comes to making money from the odd local footie game etc.
Don't shoot me just my perception on things.[emoji16]
Click to expand...
Troll alert
 
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