Loading 120 film - PITA

lindsay

lindsay

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Lindsay
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I was loading a roll of Portra 400 into a camera (Zeiss Ikon Nettar) this morning, and was really struggling to see the frame number on the backing paper through the red window as I was winding the film forward in readiness for shooting - it had reached 4 before I saw it clearly. The red window is in good condition, clean, but the numbering on the backing paper is printed really rather faintly. I had to get the changing bag out and remove the film to wind it back onto the spool in order to reload it and more carefully look for the correct starting point.

Does anyone else have these issues, and am I perhaps doing something wrong? I'm more used to my TLR's which tend to do some of this loading palaver for you to an extent, or at least have a better indicator.
 
It was an issue for me back in the day when I had a camera with a red window although, looking at my Portra 160 backing paper, the lettering looks quite bold.
Kodak are quite generous with the amount of film they put on a roll so, as long as you see any number go past you should still get 12 or whatever shots.
Asides that, I have no help to offer.
 
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It's you Lindsay, although it's not easy to see in poor light, but it's not that bad. ;)

I've never had a problem with my Nettar, but I've had trouble with others over the years. A lot of grime can build up on that red window - try a little lens cleaner or IPA on it to see if it helps.
 
Thanks Trevor! But yes, I'll give it a wipe as you suggest to try to improve visibility. Actually I just checked the backing paper off a roll of FP4 and the numbering seemed quite faint on that too, certainly not bold.

**edit - whenever I see IPA mentioned, I think beer. I guess that would not be the right thing to clean it with!
 
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Only ever used HP5 in Nettars, it does seem a bit faint. To help keep an eye on things, the frames are spaced roughly 5-6 twists of the wind-on knob(not full turns, just the normal part turn that you'd do)
 
I'd probably just take the back off and have a look. :)

Not just you, I have done that too, also had to wind the film back and start again, what doesn't help is all the different countdown dots/marks, if they all used the same markings it would be easier.
 
Encouraging comments, thanks folks - and thanks @sirch for a new good use of the red torch in my long-redundant pilot case, I haven't flown a plane at night for nearly 30 years! Thanks for the hint @garry71 too, a good rule of thumb.
 
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sirch said:
Some people use a red torch to shine through the window to see better.
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I use tiny torches similar to these to see through the red window on cameras.

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I find the numbering on Ilford films to be really faint, so a bit of a problem with red windows. Fomapan numbering is darker and easier to see, while original Acros is even better. Nick's small torches work even when they are white, as 3 of the 4 I ordered turned out to be.:rolleyes:
 
Ilford markings are faint; although I've used PanF and FP4 exclusively in medium format, the difficulty loading and winding on with my Ensign folder and others comments lead me to switching to Foma. Why Ilford print the backing paper so faintly I don't know - it makes no difference with cameras like my Mamiyas and Bronica where it isn't seen, and makes my Ensign really difficult to use. A break even/ lose scenario with no benefits that I can see.
 
I haven't used the current Acros 11, so can't say what the numbering is like. Legend has it that it is actually being made by Ilford, so can anyone say whether the numbering is now faint like Ilford's own film?
 
Interesting insight @StephenM - I have quite a lot of FP4 in the film fridge, but when I re-stock I may follow that lead re Foma. I didn't have a problem last time I tried my own Ensign but I think I was using Ektar last time so maybe that was ok.
 
I've had problems with modern films and old cameras with red windows. Latterly I've just been using Foma film which has very bold markings.
 
Ilford say that they use as little ink as possible when printing on the backing paper as it can 'transact' with the film causing spots or mottling.
 
This is the same Ilford that had a duff batch of roll film a few years ago that caused blemishes on the film from a duff coating on their backing paper. I have 5 unusable rolls of FP4 as a result but at least they replaced them when you complained, although it didn't compensate for ruined images).
 
David_Mug said:
Ilford say that they use as little ink as possible when printing on the backing paper as it can 'transact' with the film causing spots or mottling.
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One side of the backing paper is black, but not the outer side.

Is the inside printed black, of the outside printed whatever colour it is (onto the black paper) , or is it made out of two separate strips of paper?
 
Ilford's explanation sounds reasonable but - how come that we had decades of roll film with legible numbering and without (so far as I know) lots of mottling?

Steve's comment also makes me ask - if the black side of the backing which is in contact with the film doesn't cause a problem, why can't they use the same black colourant to form the numbers?
 
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Certainly have trouble with my Selfix. even when I remember to slide the indicator cover back :p
 
I agree that numbering years ago seemed much blacker than todays. It makes me wonder if the ink formulation has had to be changed to remove some ingredient(s) which Health&Safety object to these days.
 
Post 756 here for my first foray into the red  light window district...

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I always struggled seeing the numbers through the red window when I had a Lubitel 166b - it was one of the reasons I went for a Mamiya C3 with an "automatic" counter. But maybe it's because my eyesight has deteriorated - I got my 1st pair readers last autumn.
 
auntiemaryscanary said:
I always struggled seeing the numbers through the red window when I had a Lubitel 166b - it was one of the reasons I went for a Mamiya C3 with an "automatic" counter. But maybe it's because my eyesight has deteriorated - I got my 1st pair readers last autumn.
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I struggle sometimes with my Agfa Isolette but as you say the Mamiya C3 means I don't need to think about it, just shoot and wind.
 
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