Lightroom RAW Colour Problem

Zarch

Zarch

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Mick
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When I import my RAW files from my Nikon D3100 I convert to Adobe DNG, but the colours never end up looking like they do when viewed in ViewNX2.

I have tried all the options the Camera Calibration section of Develop.

Adobe Standard (poor)
Camera Landscape
Camera Portrait
Camera Neutral
Camera Standard
Camera Vivid

Only Camera Standard and Vivid get anywhere near looking the same as ViewNX2 shows the images.

Is it a case of creating my own Nikon (or indeed D3100) profile? If so, how is the best way of doing that? Can I somehow clone something from within ViewNX2?

Once i've sorted a preset out i'll be able to apply to all on import and Bob's your Uncle etc......

Any help would be very much appreciated
 
If you aren't happy with Adobe's approximations of Nikon's profiles I'm afraid the only option is to create your own.

I believe you have to photography a certain image/colour chart, I'm sure you'll find it on Google ;) .
 
I think what Lewis is referring to is a camera profile rather than picture styles. The camera profile is produced by photographing a McBeth colour chart and then running through the camera profile editor. Whilst this will give a different "look" I don't think it's going to produce the results you want

It looks like you may need to produce some settings for your self to use in Lightroom. Possibly the easiest way, would be to produce an image within ViewNX2 and then attempt to match it with the the Lightroom develop controls to get to a preset. You may need to import say a jpeg of the image into Lightroom ( hopefully LR wont apply any corrections) and you can use this as a reference to make the preset.

I do have a camera profiles made for Lightroom and I use them as a starting point, but make individual corrections for each image, rather than use the camera Styles LR ( or in my Canon ) provide
 
Chappers said:
It looks like you may need to produce some settings for your self to use in Lightroom. Possibly the easiest way, would be to produce an image within ViewNX2 and then attempt to match it with the the Lightroom develop controls to get to a preset. You may need to import say a jpeg of the image into Lightroom ( hopefully LR wont apply any corrections) and you can use this as a reference to make the preset.
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Thanks John,

Will give that a go......

I've been doing some searching and find it staggering I can't find a standard 'Nikon' colour preset ..... or is it more complicated than that? different camera models, different lens etc? But surely RAW is RAW? :thinking:

I'm also baffled why the standards provided by Adobe are so off the mark......... :cuckoo:
 
Each camera records colour with slight differences, and then you also factor in various picture styles such Neutral, Standard, Vivid, Portrait, Landscape etc and the variation can be substantial.

The Adobe Camera Raw or Lightroom presets are just approximations of what colours the actual cameras change in such modes, but the individual cameras are all different even from each manufacturer, though some manufacturers have certain traits across their range. Nikon were always known (don't if they still do) to blow out the reds very easily which may affect how Nikon camera react to these 'Vanilla' presets.


The only way to get the RAW files to look the same as they looked on the camera, or the same as the Jpeg with a certain picture style, is to use the Manufacturers own editing software which will replicate the picture styles the camera used. In Nikon's case this is a paid for option with Capture NX if you wish to do any further editing. :( Canon give DPP away free I think.


If you are lucky someone on the Internet may have made some profiles for your camera to save you the bother. ;) I leave my picture style as Neutral (to not affect the Histogram as much) and so I aim to get the image how I want it to look, mainly aiming for realism, rather that trying to mimic a particular picture style. You can do a lot of alterations with the Camera Calibration section of ACR to get close to a preferred starting point as far editing is concerned if you want and save that as a profile. You have almost complete control of the colours in a RAW file after all. ;)
 
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Thanks for that Redhed,

I'm certain that I have every setting on my camera "out of the box" as I don't recall tweaking any setting to do with how the histogram comes out.

I will check when I get home tonight, but seeing as pictures taken look nice, bright and colourful in ViewNX2, but the same image looks dull and dowdy in LR I think its got to be Adobe's interpretation that's amiss?

I assume ViewNX2 reads the NEF direct? Or is there an attached jpeg preview? :thinking:

I've been googling for D3100 Nikon Lightroom Colour Profile/preset (and various combinations), but not found anything yet! :(
 
Zarch said:
Thanks for that Redhed,

I'm certain that I have every setting on my camera "out of the box" as I don't recall tweaking any setting to do with how the histogram comes out.
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I don't mean to muddy the water, but here goes.

You can't tweak the Histogram. The Histogram is a representation of how a Jpeg would be with any picture styles applied and not the RAW data. So in a Landscape picture style the Greens and Blues may be boosted for example, as may a contrast curve. If shooting in RAW the picture style for most people is irrelevant as they will set the colours later. It's the exposure you want accurate, and a picture style may give a false representation of the scene. As far as I know there aren't any cameras which show the RAW in the Histogram, as the manufacturers don't want the images looking dull in the shop, so the images on the LCD are always nice and punchy.

Zarch said:
I will check when I get home tonight, but seeing as pictures taken look nice, bright and colourful in ViewNX2, but the same image looks dull and dowdy in LR I think its got to be Adobe's interpretation that's amiss?
Click to expand...

Yes, as I said earlier, they are just average setting for each picture style applied. I doubt any camera would look correct, as the manufacturers like to keep the specifics to themselves. ;)

Zarch said:
I assume ViewNX2 reads the NEF direct? Or is there an attached jpeg preview? :thinking:
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Yes, being Nikon's software, it reads which picture style was used correctly, and re-applies it to the RAW file. I think there may, or at least there used to be, an embedded basic Jpeg in Nikon RAW files. I don't think there are any editing options in View NX, but there are in Nikon Capture NX. But at a price. :(

Zarch said:
I've been googling for D3100 Nikon Lightroom Colour Profile/preset (and various combinations), but not found anything yet! :(
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Good luck with the search. :thumbs:

If it really matters to you though, take a pic of a nice colourful scene in in each pictures style, or the one you use most often, as RAW+Jpeg, open them up side by side in your editing program of choice and try to make the RAW look like the Jpeg using that camera calibration options.

And if you do it, share it with people on the Internet, as that is how they'll appear on the Internet for other people innit. ;) :lol:
 
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Are you sure you haven't got color profiles set for any of the applications used? I'm not sure about LR nor NX2, but in Apple Aperture I can specify the output (onscreen) color profile to be used, which I can use to verify how my photos look on a particular device. Colour Proofing.
 
dejongj said:
Are you sure you haven't got color profiles set for any of the applications used? I'm not sure about LR nor NX2, but in Apple Aperture I can specify the output (onscreen) color profile to be used, which I can use to verify how my photos look on a particular device. Colour Proofing.
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I think you are confusing the the Colo(u)r Space with the in camera colour/picture styles. And if shooting RAW you can usually choose the Color Space when saving to Jpeg or Tiff. Color Space is a whole other topic. ;) :lol:
 
redhed17 said:
I think you are confusing the the Colo(u)r Space with the in camera colour/picture styles. And if shooting RAW you can usually choose the Color Space when saving to Jpeg or Tiff. Color Space is a whole other topic. ;) :lol:
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No I am not confusing matters at all. You have a number of variables but the same original file right.

Whilst it can be the RAW processor, in theory it is based upon the information from Nikon and should be accurate. But it is possible it is not taking the readings correctly.

However, as said before I don't know how lightroom operates but I'll be surprised if it can't. Using Aperture I had big differences as well at some stage, and it just didn't look right. Whilst opening the same file in NX2 was absolutely fine. Then all of a sudden I remembered that I left Aperture in a colour proofing mode very different to the profile my monitor was calibrated to. And thus on a per app, and then only in the area where the photo is display it applies the color sync. But granted I didn't read the OP correctly.

The thing is those settings are just groupings for easy selection in the camera, but do actually apply the individual settings underneath it like the curves, sharpness, contrast etc. So if you can see a difference between neutral and vivid, it is technically impossible that the others don't work. ACR does not apply the grouping, it shouldn't be aware of the grouping, as that is the Camera's UI. The RAW information has got settings attached and if it can apply the two differently it is weird if it can't apply the others. Can't you make a new one with really extreme settings and see if these get applied. If not I would raise a defect with Adobe as the ACR should pic that up. They may have just got a defect in the code that you have noticed.

Actually yes you can adjust the curves, I've been doing that with custom curves since my old D70. The histogram is not just for jpegs.

And they are not just averages, the information gets published and updates to acr and osx are regurarly being published to get the specifics for new cameras in there. Cameras should look spot on.
 
Totally by fluke I went through my Application Support director and found the Nikon Picture Control Utility, do you have that on a PC? Seems to do what you want.
 
dejongj said:
Totally by fluke I went through my Application Support director and found the Nikon Picture Control Utility, do you have that on a PC? Seems to do what you want.
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I've never heard of it as a PC user, so no, it's not on a PC afaik.

Not sure what
colour proofing mode
Click to expand...
is either from your previous post either. All sounds like it could be complicated in Aperture/Mac if you let it. ;) :lol:
 
Well I took a few shots over the weekend as both RAW and JPG...... Lightroom treats these differently and the JPG ones look more like i'd expect. (ie how they look in ViewNX)

So how do I get the RAW and JPG to look the same? Do I just have to play with some sliders to get the colours right? is that in HSL? and then create a preset?

A bit lost really being pretty new to LR, so any help would be appreciated. :thumbs:
 
In the develop module, you need to apply a camera calibration (very bottom of the right hand develop tools list). This should bring you closer to your expected picture. You can create a preset with this and apply during import if you want.
 
arad85 said:
In the develop module, you need to apply a camera calibration (very bottom of the right hand develop tools list). This should bring you closer to your expected picture. You can create a preset with this and apply during import if you want.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Andy, but thats the root of the problem.... the profiles for my camera are miles off. (detailed in first post).

Hence i've now got some dual raw and jpg snaps that i'm going to try and match up.
 
Ahh... I didn't read the first post today (I had read it when it was posted but....) ;)
 
I don't use Lightroom that much, but just having a quick look, here's what I'd try.

In the Develop Module, go down to Camera Calibration. There is a pull down tab which says Profile. On my Lightroom, I have Adobe Standard, but also Camera Landscape, Camera Neutral, Camera Portrait, Camera Standard and Camera Vivid. I assume that they are built in.

So I would set that to match whatever picture style/mode on the camera. This looks like it is altering the curves and contrast, and then alter the colours to try and match my camera. That should hopefully get you close. If that was too far from what you wanted, then I would choose the Camera Neutral and play with the Tone Curve earlier in the Develop Module.

Good luck. :thumbs:
 
redhed17 said:
I don't use Lightroom that much, but just having a quick look, here's what I'd try.

In the Develop Module, go down to Camera Calibration. There is a pull down tab which says Profile. On my Lightroom, I have Adobe Standard, but also Camera Landscape, Camera Neutral, Camera Portrait, Camera Standard and Camera Vivid. I assume that they are built in.

So I would set that to match whatever picture style/mode on the camera.
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Sorry for being thick, but I don't know what you mean by "picture style/mode on the camera". I have nothing set like that, I just shoot in RAW with a custom WB.

When chosen in LR, none of the Landscape, Neutral, Portrait settings show the RAW
a) how the RAW file looks in ViewNX
or
b) how the JPG looks in LR.
(they both look the same by the way, the the RAW in LR thats off.)


redhed17 said:
This looks like it is altering the curves and contrast, and then alter the colours to try and match my camera. That should hopefully get you close. If that was too far from what you wanted, then I would choose the Camera Neutral and play with the Tone Curve earlier in the Develop Module.

Good luck. :thumbs:
Click to expand...

When i flick between the ill looking RAW in LR and the nice looking JPG the Tone Curve is exactly the same. Infact all settings in the develop model are nigh on the same, same numbers, mainly at 0.

The only things that are different is the profile Camera Standard (RAW), Embedded (JPG), but i've tried all the different profiles with no decent result

The histogram is different..... but i've mucked about with allsorts of colour/tone/brightness/contrast, but can't get the JPG to match the RAW.

Maybe I need one of those macbeth? colour charts, take some shots of it then use DNG Profiler to create a profile from that? How much do those colour charts cost though? :thinking:

Baffling all this..... why the heck it just doesn't work out of the box! :(
 
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I think I may have confused things by calling it a Picture Mode. :eek:

It is called a Picture Control on Nikon's, Picture Style on Canon's I think, and even though you may have not set one, one is being applied. It is affecting the Sharpness, Contrast, Brightness, Saturation and Hue on the Jpeg, and the RAW when it is viewed in the Nikon sftware. That is all being applied with the various Picture Controls, Landscape, Monochrome, Neutral, Portrait, Standard and Vivid. The Nikon software replicates these Picture Controls that were used in the camera and applies them to the RAW file, so the RAW and the Jpeg would look the same with the Nikon software. Nikon don't share the exact Picture Control settings, (not sure any Manufacturer does) and the Adobe software doesn't know that/what Picture Control was used and so doesn't apply it to the RAW file like the Nikon software. There are some default approximations to the Nikon Picture Control under the Camera Calibration section.

If you use the PASM modes then you could set a Picture Control and leave it, and the set a corresponding Camera Profile, or a saved customised version to apply to all your RAW files. If you use any of the Scene Modes from the dial at the top, then various Scene Modes, Portrait, Landscape etc may also change to a corresponding Picture Control, and so you would need to match the Profile in Lightroom.

The Tone Curves in Lightroom will be the same, as they are both default, but if you can't get the RAW and the Jpeg looking similar (you may not be able to get it exact) using the Camera Calibration then you could try playing with the Tone Curve applied to try and get it similar to the Jpeg. That would be the last resort though.

I hope you can follow that and we are talking about the same things. ;) :lol:

If you are happy with the Jpegs, then why are you using RAW btw?
 
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