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lawrenceots

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I'm really really hankering after a Leica...and I'm thinking of the V-Lux 1 as an excellent general purpose one. I had the FZ50 years ago, and it's really good. Would you reckon it'd be agood purchase - it would juts be as a fun camera, as I know my old D50 gives far better technical results - and that feeling you get when using a Leica... I think they're are a few for about £280 on ebay...
 
Not sure I see the point in getting a camera that is not actually a leica. It is just a rebadged FZ50, so why not just get one of those? If you want a real leica then the cheapest way is either film or an X1, but neither will be £280.
 
menthel said:
Not sure I see the point in getting a camera that is not actually a leica. It is just a rebadged FZ50, so why not just get one of those? If you want a real leica then the cheapest way is either film or an X1, but neither will be £280.
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I see you point, but then so are all te d- lux, and c-lux and they're very popular. It's only the m8,m9 and x1 that are not copies of existing Panasonic models...
 
If you know the Leica compacts are rebadged Panasonic ones, why would you bother getting the Leica version?
 
Well the badge really, I've always wanted a Leica..I know its rather pathetic, but I won't be able to get a better one (x1 etc) and these seem the only option really.
 
lawrenceots said:
Well the badge really, I've always wanted a Leica..I know its rather pathetic, but I won't be able to get a better one (x1 etc) and these seem the only option really.
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Then get saving and get something that the badge actually means something. It certainly doesn't on a rebadged panny compact.
 
lawrenceots said:
Well the badge really, I've always wanted a Leica..I know its rather pathetic, but I won't be able to get a better one (x1 etc) and these seem the only option really.
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If you want a Leica because it's a Leica, and while I don't get that myself I understand the way it makes people feel about using one, then get an X1.

It is at least a proper Leica, with a decent sized sensor and a pretty cool tool with a viewfinder on it. I think that sooner or later you'll feel conned by a re-badged Pano which at the end of the day is just an ordinary Japanese compact with zero Leica-ness.
 
Don't the Leica versions of the Panasonics come with a copy of Lightroom (and a better warranty)? If you don't have LR it may well be better to get the Leica, but the difference may be negligible.
 
FruitFlakes said:
Don't the Leica versions of the Panasonics come with a copy of Lightroom (and a better warranty)? If you don't have LR it may well be better to get the Leica, but the difference may be negligible.
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Probably not when you buy it second hand. also this camera is rather old now, so may not have had that offer.
 
I'm not into badges at all and I see no point in paying hundreds of pounds more for a Leica than a Panasonic but I wonder if you'd be able to satisfy your Leica lust by buying lenses rather than a camera? Maybe lenses are far more deserving of lust than dubious badged engineered or old fashioned bodies?

If you could maybe you could pick up a used Panasonic / Olympus MFT and find a could of nice Leica lenses to use on it with an adapter?
 
The only Leica/Panny I'd consider would be the D lux5. It's dearer, but you get lightroom with it, a better guarantee, and the IQ is supposed to be better/different than the panasonic version.
The shots I've seen on the web do seem to have a Leica like quality to them.

If you like film, something like the Leicaflex SL might be worth looking at, but it doesn't have the actual red dot on it. Be careful with MK IIIs as there are a lot of fakes about.
 
I'll make you a Leica badge, and you can give me the money that you would've spent on getting the relabelled version of a camera?

If you want a real Leica, get a real Leica. Their reputation comes from the handling of their cameras, their real cameras.
 
freecom2 said:
I'll make you a Leica badge, and you can give me the money that you would've spent on getting the relabelled version of a camera?

If you want a real Leica, get a real Leica. Their reputation comes from the handling of their cameras, their real cameras.
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And the cost - it's part of the appeal. The simple fact that you've paid an arm and a leg for it. Reassuringly expensive.

It's like a genuine diamond and a cubic zirconia - one is the real thing and costs a fortune, and the other isn't.
 
Willo said:
If you know the Leica compacts are rebadged Panasonic ones, why would you bother getting the Leica version?
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I'm genuinely astonished, to be honest. If you are fully aware that it's rebadged, and nothing but a rebadge - there's no optical difference, you won't be able to discern pictures taken from either, they are exactly the same bits of silicon - why on earth would you pay more for the badge? :bonk:

If I stripped the badge off both, handed you both and told you one was from Leica and one was from Panasonic, you wouldn't even be able to tell! I'm not criticising Leica (or Panasonic), but please see sense!
 
Nobody has ever said 'hey, nice Panasonic', plus the red dot makes your photos look at least 14% better. ;) Get the Leica, you know you want to.
 
hmm interesting comments...I guess Leica owners would know what I mean, but its something about the badge..and the models are very slightly different in terms of build as well...the badge does make a difference! Ohh and I remember that iPhone sticker, was going to get one ages ago! :lol:
 
lawrenceots said:
hmm interesting comments...I guess Leica owners would know what I mean, but its something about the badge..and the models are very slightly different in terms of build as well...the badge does make a difference! Ohh and I remember that iPhone sticker, was going to get one ages ago! :lol:
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Difference is Laudrup owns an actual Leica rather than a panny with a badge stuck on. The prices you are mentioning are crazy, save up for a real one or buy the panny. Anything else is poorly thought out reflex instant gratification.
 
Yeah, he's a Leica owner - he owns a Leica that hasn't fallen off the Panasonic factory line and had a red dot attached to it. There is nothing in the badge, on a rebadged camera. The only Leica's that anyone should spend money on are the actual Leica's - anything else really is just an imitation, albeit a Leica-authorised imitation! Additionally, I hope Laudrup's comment was slightly tongue-in-cheek...

I'm going to stop posting before I start swearing, because sometimes I just cannot comprehend some people's decisions (I appreciate it is your own money, but buying a rebadged camera even though you know it is rebadged is like putting a Lamborghini badge on an old Fiesta and thinking 'well there's something about the badge!' whilst paying Lamborghini money for it).
 
lawrenceots said:
hmm interesting comments...I guess Leica owners would know what I mean, but its something about the badge..and the models are very slightly different in terms of build as well...the badge does make a difference! Ohh and I remember that iPhone sticker, was going to get one ages ago! :lol:
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I don't think you have to be a Leica fan to get it, because I'm certainly not one.

It's got nothing to do with the camera or how good it is, it's how you feel about it. And the brand name is a huge part of the whole emotional experience. I think you're is being really honest about that, and haven't resorted to all that guff about bokeh and 'pop' and all the other nonsense that Leica owners come up with to make some kind of logical justification for an outrageously expensive purchase.

A Leica is a Leica, it has history and unqiue heritage, works in a way that no other camera comes near (fortunately :D) and if nothing else is a wonderfully precision engineered thing of great mechanical and optical beauty. It's a very special experience that you cannot measure in quantifiable terms. That's enough isn't it?

Anything less than a proper Leica is like fake Rolex, or a cubic zirconia diamond, or a fabulous classic car that catches you're eye - until you realise that it's a kit job with a Ford Capri underneath :thumbsdown:
 
The sooner he buys it, the sooner he could lose his attachment to material possessions.

So say Glasshopper.
 
HoppyUK said:
Anything less than a proper Leica is like fake Rolex, or a cubic zirconia diamond, or a fabulous classic car that catches you're eye - until you realise that it's a kit job with a Ford Capri underneath :thumbsdown:
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Your post is probably accurate if the OP was buying an M8, an M9... but basically he's buying the fake Rolex, the kit job, but he's paying the full whack for it! Please tell me it's not just me who thinks this is crazy :bang:
 
You know its a rebadged Panasonic, and you fancy it, so buy one. These decisions don't have to be rational, and other peoples disparaging remarks don't really matter because you're not asking them to lend you the money and you're under any illusions about what you're getting.

I may buy a Leica one of these days, but it'll probably be an M3. They're not too pricey, about the same as a mid-range DSLR and lens. I've no real reason to get one, but I like them, and that's good enough.
 
HoppyUK said:
Anything less than a proper Leica is like fake Rolex, or a cubic zirconia diamond, or a fabulous classic car that catches you're eye - until you realise that it's a kit job with a Ford Capri underneath :thumbsdown:
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You're being very harsh here I think. Panasonic make some of the best cameras in their markets. I have an LX5 and a GF1 and they're both pretty near the top of their market segments. I don't own any of their more point and shoot offerings but from what I've read they too are pretty near the top of their market.

IMVHO no one need to apologise or make any excuse for buying a Panasonic, neither should any Panasonic owner feel as if they should have bought a Leica. Indeed short of a M9 the argument for any Leica is IMVHO arguably quite dubious.
 
freecom2 said:
Your post is probably accurate if the OP was buying an M8, an M9... but basically he's buying the fake Rolex, the kit job, but he's paying the full whack for it! Please tell me it's not just me who thinks this is crazy :bang:
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I suggested he gets an X1, which is not a rebadged Pano. It's a real Leica in the true sense, and actually, if Cartier-Bresson was still around to try one, he might think it's actually the spiritual successor to the film M cameras in digital form, rather more than the M9 actually is.

You could make a case for the X1 at least. It's far from perfect IMHO, but has a big sensor and takes very good pictures. It's a thoroughly modern concept, decently executed, and when you pick it up, has real Leicaness. I prefer the Fuji X100 for various reasons which is conceptually similar (mainly because it has a great viewfinder and f/2 lens) but you can't say an X1 is a bad camera in any way, and it's just about affordable.

But you can't make any kind of case for an M8. It may be a Leica, but actually it's a terrible thing and simply doesn't work properly. A hasty and poorly thought out mess, thankfully now discontinued.

The Leica-Panos are nice enough, good cameras. But they are Japanese compacts that Panasonic has paid Leica to stick their name on. They have zero Leica DNA.
 
That's not strictly 100% true, more like 99% maybe :)

The Leica badge jobbies do have tweaks to their processing pipeline so they have at least tried something different, plus I'm pretty sure that Leica must have had some input on lenses, how much though we may never know. Might just have been a sign off.
 
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lawrenceots said:
hmm interesting comments...I guess Leica owners would know what I mean, but its something about the badge..and the models are very slightly different in terms of build as well...the badge does make a difference! Ohh and I remember that iPhone sticker, was going to get one ages ago! :lol:
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If you want it you should buy it. Don't listen to the haters ;)
 
Laudrup said:
If you want it you should buy it. Don't listen to the haters ;)
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Not haters, we just want him to have a real leica! My next purchase is an M6...
 
Do what I have done. Can't afford one, so bought a Russian zorki 4 for £45. Proper rangefinder with manual everything (film) and while not a leica something similar to an old one. Or, save for a fuji x100
 
woof woof said:
That's not strictly 100% true, more like 99% maybe :)

The Leica badge jobbies do have tweaks to their processing pipeline so they have at least tried something different, plus I'm pretty sure that Leica must have had some input on lenses, how much though we may never know. Might just have been a sign off.
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I'll go with 99% :) Maybe the conversation went something like this.

Ring ring, ring ring.

Herr Leica: Hello Pano-San, my new best friend. Good to hear from you, things are pretty tough here in Leica Land.

Pano-San: Yes, they are. That's excellent news. We though we could sell a few more cameras if we made people think they were Leicas, and give our brand some credibility.

Herr-Leica: Oh fantastic, we could put a big sensor in it, and make some nice fast primes, charge £5k, and, and... we'll both make a fortune.

Pano-San: Who's this 'we'? And there is only a modest budget for this.

Herr-Leica: How modest?

Pano-San: Very modest. Like zero. What can we do for nothing?

Herr-Leica: Well, paint them battle-ship grey and put a red blob on the front. Mess with the software and take the handgrip off.

Pano-San: Our software is very good - why mess with it? And won't taking the handgrip off make it harder to hold? And what's this red blob?

Herr-Leica: If you mess with the software, we can claim it's different, and different is better in Leica Land, and better means we can charge more. You've got to take the handgrip off to make it harder to hold, more like a like proper Leica - people have to suffer for their art. Art is worth paying extra for.

Pano-San: Ah so! What about the red blob?

Herr-Leica: The red blob is everything! It's worth a fortune!

Pano-San: Okay, we'll make it bigger then?

Herr-Leica: Nooo! It's gotta be small! We even charge more when we leave it off completely!

Pano-San: We thought that was just a manufacturing error! Now are you up for this or not?

Herr-Leica: How much are you going to pay us?

Pano-San: Well, we thought it should be in line with your contribution to the development and production costs.

Herr-Leica: Not very much then!

Pano-San: No, but it's more than you're getting now.

Herr-Leica: You gotta deal!
 
Hoppy, you are naughty and people will be tracking you down to where you live!
 
HoppyUK said:
I suggested he gets an X1, which is not a rebadged Pano. It's a real Leica in the true sense, and actually, if Cartier-Bresson was still around to try one, he might think it's actually the spiritual successor to the film M cameras in digital form, rather more than the M9 actually is.

You could make a case for the X1 at least. It's far from perfect IMHO, but has a big sensor and takes very good pictures. It's a thoroughly modern concept, decently executed, and when you pick it up, has real Leicaness. I prefer the Fuji X100 for various reasons which is conceptually similar (mainly because it has a great viewfinder and f/2 lens) but you can't say an X1 is a bad camera in any way, and it's just about affordable.

But you can't make any kind of case for an M8. It may be a Leica, but actually it's a terrible thing and simply doesn't work properly. A hasty and poorly thought out mess, thankfully now discontinued.

The Leica-Panos are nice enough, good cameras. But they are Japanese compacts that Panasonic has paid Leica to stick their name on. They have zero Leica DNA.
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The M8 and M8.2 still take Leica or Zeiss glass and produce great photos with real pop to them.
 
I had a D-Lux 4 which I bought second hand at the same price as a new LX3. Same camera, almost, with slightly different grip, slightly different image processing and a red dot on the front.
I knew it was really a Panasonic, but it had the red dot, said Leica and gave me a good feeling when I used it. Images were very nice. Result? Happiness.

But, it wasnt a Leica and i eventually sold it when I could afford an X1.
This was a proper Leica and you don't just buy the camera, you buy into the Leica experience. The packaging is superb, the user manual looks the business, ( its not a CD like you get with most cameras now either) all the little things that ooze quality are there. Even a real leather neck strap in a silk pouch!

And then there was the image quality that made me realise just how average all my M43 stuff was!

But, the X1 has gone to a new owner now and my intention is to get an M8. Probably the worst camera Leica ever made, according to some. Best camera to get into Leicas, according to others, but its a Leica digital rangefinder and I love rangefinders ( still have a FED 4) and the M9 is way beyond my reach.

I dont think you need to justify buying a Leica ( although a Titanium M9 at over £24000 is a little hard to swallow!) If you really want one and understand what a Leica is, you will buy one and enjoy using it. If you buy one thinking its the best camera in the world, you won't keep it.

So, I suppose if you want the D-Lux with the red dot, get the camera. If you buy the Panny equivalent, it will be as good, but the red dot won't be there, and you'll wish it was!

Allan
 
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