Lack of power - not me, the car!!! :D

candlestick

candlestick

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My Fiat Panda (fartbox) 1.2 Dynamic(arguably not that with a 1.2l engine) has been running fine for the last 18 months but is now starting to lose power under load. It's fine in the lower gears, but get it up into 4th or 5th and it will struggle to accelerate/hold speed if going up hill. I do have an LPG conversion on the car, but the symptoms are the same when running petrol and LPG (the LPG injectors have a seperate ECU anyway). It's almost like the engine is 'choking' to be honest.

Any car bods on here with cheap suggestions before I have to take it to a Fiat dealership (last resort) ie would you stick it on a rolling road, then take it to a garage? My only thoughts are new coil or summat, as the plugs were only changed 6K ago, and the leads look OK.

Help please :D
 
Find out if this car has a MAF sensor, if so give it a good clean! should be easy to remove and spray cean with carb cleaner. given that spark plugs are cheap also i would change these regardless
 
What year is it? When was it last serviced (fully)?

It could be a carbon build up in the valves or on the plugs causing it to choke at lower speeds. It could be any number of things really..

Does it ever have problems starting? If you do have to take it to a garage, find a reliable independant rather than visiting a main dealer. Their prices will be much lower for any labour and also should any work need to be done it will work out cheaper. :)
 
It's a 55 plate (2006) and was last serviced appx 7k miles ago (about 3 months ago, I do 24k a year and I get it fully serviced every 12k). It starts fine, and seems OK in lower gears like I said. It idles a bit lumpy when cold, but apart from that it's been fine up until the problem I highlighted.
 
Maf or Mas (mass air flow sensor) @ 1.2 lit it will be a cropped one:naughty: failing that HT leads check they are OK lumpy start (cold) could be a fault and losing power (warm - hot) could be that fault a temperature build up expansion contraction of leads. failing that see if it can have the faults read on the computor, a diagnostic could pin point it. try the throttle linkage if its loose at all.

other than that or the dealers is it not under warranty, if you have RAC or AA try calling them out tell them it broke down at say tesco's do some shopping and see if they can find the fault <<<sneaky but these things have to be done.

regards mark.
 
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mercmanuk said:
Maf or Mas (mass air flow sensor) @ 1.2 lit it will be a cropped one:naughty: failing that HT leads check they are OK lumpy start (cold) could be a fault and losing power (warm - hot) could be that fault a temperature build up expansion contraction of leads. failing that see if it can have the faults read on the computor, a diagnostic could pin point it. try the throttle linkage if its loose at all.

other than that or the dealers is it not under warranty, if you have RAC or AA try calling them out tell them it broke down at say tesco's do some shopping and see if they can find the fault <<<sneaky but these things have to be done.

regards mark.
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say it cut out at tescos and they will do a diagnostic check ;) 60 quid plus vat most dealers charge ;) he will read the fault codes and then happy days!..

Thinking about this now i have a fiat its a diesel and had similar problems 2 weeks ago, turned out to be crank sensor.

get a diag done it will tell you
 
The car was born with a lack of power ;)

As you're losing power.....do the revs still rise but without the increase in road speed?

As the concern is apparent on both fuels, you need to establish which sensor or system is common to both.

If the air filter is OK, then your most likely to be suffering a sensor issue rather than a mis fire on the ignition.

Lambda (oxygen), air temp, coolant temp, idle air control are just some of the shared sensors than can affect power output on both systems.
 
The revs are constant, so the clutch isn't slipping or similar. It's definitely feels like that the engine is being choked in some way. I'll start with the air filter and work my way more expensive!! :D
 
Try just disconnecting the MAF sensor and try going up a hill.. Cheap way to test it.
 
justinframe said:
say it cut out at tescos and they will do a diagnostic check ;) 60 quid plus vat most dealers charge ;) he will read the fault codes and then happy days!..

Thinking about this now i have a fiat its a diesel and had similar problems 2 weeks ago, turned out to be crank sensor.

get a diag done it will tell you
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Did i say that exactly,i am sure i said call the AA?RAC if your a member and get them to find the fault, While you do some shopping,OR get a diagnostic at a garage.............. and i thought my tablets where affecting me, my tablets must be affecting you as well:lol:

regards mark.
 
have a check over all the hoses for air leaks. Are you getting any smoke? hesitation? or is it just lack of power?
 
No smoke, no hesitation on the throttle, just a lack of power that's noticable mainly on the motorway when I try and put my foot down in 5th and it doesn't accelerate.
 
Can't see that a MAF issue would only show up in the upper gears, and its very delicate so be VERY careful if you try to clean it.

when you chek the air filter have a look at the flap on the MAF - it may be sticking in a certain position that only becomes stuck with small changes in throttle position, and not big changes like initial acceleration.

Not sure about the logisitics of LPG, but if you regularly use supermarket fuel then maybe wortha try of fuelinjector cleaner such as Redex in the petrol tank. Even a fill of decent super unleaded from shell with plenty of detergents in might help.

Failing that get the fault codes read as already suggested - RAC can access all of the Fiat ecu systems. You could also try a local Bosch diagnostics center, or for a simpler check get a MOT emissions test completed.

You might also want to ask on www.fiatforum.com - pretty active new panda section on there ;)


One last one ! - timing belt change ? - i think its every 5 years or 72k miles - might have slipped a notch if its on its way out ??
 
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My god i've never seen such a load of guess work in my life!

A diagnostics check will only show up a fault, it will not interigate the system and tell you what is wrong with it by magic.

If it was the MAF sensor you would notice the problem in all the gears rather than just 4th and 5th. The engine will suck air in depending on the revs. Not what gear you are in.

Best thing to do is take it to an independant specialist. A main dealer will plug it in, see there are no trouble codes, relieve you of your fifty quid and send you on your way. Exactly the same for the RAC or AA.

An independent specialist will be more willing to find the fault as he will want to make some money.

Have you noticed any tapping noises from the engine? The panda engines of 2005/2006 did suffer with piston slap badly, FIAT never admitted the problem but on occasion did replace engines at their own cost. Although this is the only real common problem i can remember pandas having. (yes i worked for FIAT up until a few months ago).
 
TheCrow said:
My god i've never seen such a load of guess work in my life!
A diagnostics check will only show up a fault, it will not interigate the system and tell you what is wrong with it by magic.

If it was the MAF sensor you would notice the problem in all the gears rather than just 4th and 5th. The engine will suck air in depending on the revs. Not what gear you are in.

Best thing to do is take it to an independant specialist. A main dealer will plug it in, see there are no trouble codes, relieve you of your fifty quid and send you on your way. Exactly the same for the RAC or AA.

An independent specialist will be more willing to find the fault as he will want to make some money.

Have you noticed any tapping noises from the engine? The panda engines of 2005/2006 did suffer with piston slap badly, FIAT never admitted the problem but on occasion did replace engines at their own cost. Although this is the only real common problem i can remember pandas having. (yes i worked for FIAT up until a few months ago).
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well if you stay around you will see a lot more :lol::lol:

kind regards mark.
 
TheCrow.. so what your saying is... A diagnostic check will not tell you what the fault is... but will only tell you if there is a fault.. and therefore he should get a diagnostic check? Which is exactly what has been said already?

Or am I missing the part where you gave a solution that wasn't a guess?
 
Hmmm, does it ever overheat - are you losing water or oil? Any mayo on the dipstick or in the oil filler cap?

Earlier 1.2 engines are legendary for throwing headgaskets - lack of power can be an indication of early failure. No idea if the lump in the Panda is the same as Puntos....but something to check easily yourself and keep an eye on.

Cheers,
James
 
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leon1p said:
TheCrow.. so what your saying is... A diagnostic check will not tell you what the fault is... but will only tell you if there is a fault.. and therefore he should get a diagnostic check? Which is exactly what has been said already?

Or am I missing the part where you gave a solution that wasn't a guess?
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Nah i think you have misunderstood what i mean.

A simple diagnostic test will only read fault codes that are stored in the ecu.

The persons car in question may be low on power. But if there is no warning light on then no fault has been recorded, hence the diagnostic test being useless.

Oh and solution that wasn't a guess? I worked for FIAT for 6 years and think i know slightly more than you when it comes to the italian pieces of ****!
 
but don't forget.......

Not every fault with the electronic engine control system will set the MIL

I've looked at lots of vehicles where a customer has complained of sometimes quite noticable hesitations and there has been several EOBD P codes that have not requested MIL

European on board diagnostics looks heavily at misfire and emission detection to keep the tree huggers happy.

So a quick scan of the Ecm is still the simplist and cleanest thing to try.
 
TheCrow you are right I had misunderstood you.. I had interpreted that what you saying was that you SHOULD get it diagnosed and just pay the 50 quid to get it fixed and be done with it therefore I apologise :D I agree that that the MAF could be faulty yet still working within a limit that the ECU thinks is fine therefore a fault code may not be present.. Which sounds more than likely since the OP has never suggested the presence of a fault light.

Hence my input on this thread being that it might be an idea to unplug the MAF temporarily to rule it out at no cost. (and of course a little misinformed nudge at you ;) )

I don't doubt your knowledge is superior to mine but genuinely your post confused me :D (or I confused your post)
 
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Not as yet, as I've not had a free day for 2 weeks. I've checked the oil for gunk, and checked my water & oil levels, and they seem fine, so I think I can rule out the the head gasket for the time being. I'm going to start cheap, by changing the plugs & leads plus a new air filter at the weekend hopefully and see if that helps.

Thanks for all the suggestions, I will let you know who was right when it's sorted
 
Quick update, the cars in getting some new pads and disks as they went horribly wrong earlier in the week, so I've got the garage checking out my powerage, so will report back this evening! :D
 
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