L-Mount Alliance

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StevenS

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Announced today.

An alliance between Leica, Panasonic and Sigma. Basically, Leica are licensing the L-mount to Panasonic and Sigma for their mutual benefit.

Leica and Panasonic have been working closely on the L-mount for some years, the Leica SL and CL cameras and Panasonic auto-focus lenses.

Now Sigma are partnering.

The basic idea seems to be to drive the Leica brand in the mirrorless auto-focus market with trusted lens manufacturers. Panasonic use Leica glass, now Sigma?
 
Looks promising. - For me, a L mount Panasonic might be interesting to use with adapted Leica M mount lenses. With native lenses, the system will be as heavy as the Leica SL, however ....
 
justpix said:
Looks promising. - For me, a L mount Panasonic might be interesting to use with adapted Leica M mount lenses. With native lenses, the system will be as heavy as the Leica SL, however ....
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I wonder Panasonic will be making L-mount bodies?

M and Q for me for the time being, perhaps the next decade at least.
 
StevenS said:
I wonder Panasonic will be making L-mount bodies?

M and Q for me for the time being, perhaps the next decade at least.
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Panasonic are making at least 2 L mount bodies, as per this announcement today?
 
StevenS said:
Announced today.

An alliance between Leica, Panasonic and Sigma. Basically, Leica are licensing the L-mount to Panasonic and Sigma for their mutual benefit.

Leica and Panasonic have been working closely on the L-mount for some years, the Leica SL and CL cameras and Panasonic auto-focus lenses.

Now Sigma are partnering.

The basic idea seems to be to drive the Leica brand in the mirrorless auto-focus market with trusted lens manufacturers. Panasonic use Leica glass, now Sigma?
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The basic idea is that Panasonic can launch a new camera with a full range of lenses available, without actually having to make any. Sigma and Leica just see as it a way to raise their profile and maybe sell a few more lenses.

All of which might happen if the Panasonic cameras are actually good (or very, very good if they're to steal significant market share from Canikson, which is their only hope in a declining market) but the signs are not promising. Meanwhile, Panasonic has given the whole M4/3 market the jitters, and Olympus isn't helping by apparently doing nothing. It's not looking great so far - Panasonic's new 4K video had better be amazing...
 
HoppyUK said:
The basic idea is that Panasonic can launch a new camera with a full range of lenses available, without actually having to make any. Sigma and Leica just see as it a way to raise their profile and maybe sell a few more lenses.

All of which might happen if the Panasonic cameras are actually good (or very, very good if they're to steal significant market share from Canikson, which is their only hope in a declining market) but the signs are not promising. Meanwhile, Panasonic has given the whole M4/3 market the jitters, and Olympus isn't helping by apparently doing nothing. It's not looking great so far - Panasonic's new 4K video had better be amazing...
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No jitters here, I dont want to walk around with lenses the size and weight of beer barrels. The whole thing about MFT is their size.
 
HoppyUK said:
Panasonic has given the whole M4/3 market the jitters, and Olympus isn't helping by apparently doing nothing. It's not looking great so far - Panasonic's new 4K video had better be amazing...
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I don't know why M43 users are worrying, they just announced a pretty impressive lens for the system in partnership with Leica. A 10-25mm f/1.7 - not the sign of a company giving up on a system anytime soon. There has also been rumours of a trio of new GH bodies, all three will apparently be GH6, each with different specs. Olympus stated they would have a "super high end" camera by next year, they put this statement out long before any of the other company's rumours. They seem to be playing the long game, maybe just letting the others blow all their steam. The M43 system is still good for now IMO, not everyone gets over excited and feels the urgent need to jump onto the latest bandwagon. There's tonnes of people on M43 forums still using old GM1/GM5/EM5 and earlier PEN cameras along side their new EM1 mkII or G9 - Olympus brought out a bunch of 'Pro' grade 1.2 primes only last year with more already in production [12mm f/1.2 just about to be released] Don't see any need to panic for a while yet.
 
Cagey75 said:
I don't know why M43 users are worrying, they just announced a pretty impressive lens for the system in partnership with Leica. A 10-25mm f/1.7 - not the sign of a company giving up on a system anytime soon. There has also been rumours of a trio of new GH bodies, all three will apparently be GH6, each with different specs. Olympus stated they would have a "super high end" camera by next year, they put this statement out long before any of the other company's rumours. They seem to be playing the long game, maybe just letting the others blow all their steam. The M43 system is still good for now IMO, not everyone gets over excited and feels the urgent need to jump onto the latest bandwagon. There's tonnes of people on M43 forums still using old GM1/GM5/EM5 and earlier PEN cameras along side their new EM1 mkII or G9 - Olympus brought out a bunch of 'Pro' grade 1.2 primes only last year with more already in production [12mm f/1.2 just about to be released] Don't see any need to panic for a while yet.
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Me neither TBH but Panasonic's surprise entry into full-frame does seem a little contradictory if you want to look at it that way. While M4/3 may not be going anywhere short-term, it's hard to argue that all the noise (haha) around full-frame does not have implications.
 
I don't see why, look at it in a more positive way maybe. The others manage just fine running 2 formats, whether FF + APSC, or like Fuji, APSC + MF. I reckon Pany are big and bold enough to manage both FF + M43. I don't know why anyone gets their knicks in a twist either way, if M43 was to die the gear that exists isn't going to suddenly turn to dust, though it will lose value rapidly. If anyone is that fearful, get out now maybe, move on to something else. I never tie myself to any make, model, format. It's just gear end of the day.
 
Cagey75 said:
I don't see why, look at it in a more positive way maybe. The others manage just fine running 2 formats, whether FF + APSC, or like Fuji, APSC + MF. I reckon Pany are big and bold enough to manage both FF + M43. I don't know why anyone gets their knicks in a twist either way, if M43 was to die the gear that exists isn't going to suddenly turn to dust, though it will lose value rapidly. If anyone is that fearful, get out now maybe, move on to something else. I never tie myself to any make, model, format. It's just gear end of the day.
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It's not just gear though is it, it's money and that's serious stuff, especially if you have a few grand tied up.

Rightly or wrongly, Panasonic's move to full-frame has raised concerns among M4/3 users and anyone looking to invest further in M4/3 now is going to think twice or delay. It may only be a marketing blunder but Panasonic (and Olympus) needs to issue some reassurance in these turbulent times.
 
HoppyUK said:
It's not just gear though is it, it's money and that's serious stuff, especially if you have a few grand tied up.

Rightly or wrongly, Panasonic's move to full-frame has raised concerns among M4/3 users and anyone looking to invest further in M4/3 now is going to think twice or delay. It may only be a marketing blunder but Panasonic (and Olympus) needs to issue some reassurance in these turbulent times.
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I wouldn't go buying a tonne of gear for the system anytime soon certainly, but the gear we already have is still doing the same job as ever. More serious long time m43 shooters or pros will feel the gear has already paid for itself at this stage. I'm not speaking for them, just my assumption. I know many would be sad to see the system fade, but honestly, if what I posted earlier about new GH bodies, and the fact they are still making new lenses doesn't indicate they are sticking with it, I'm not sure what else they should do to reassure.
 
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Cagey75 said:
I wouldn't go buying a tonne of gear for the system anytime soon certainly, but the gear we already have is still doing the same job as ever. More serious long time m43 shooters or pros will feel the gear has already paid for itself at this stage. I'm not speaking for them, just my assumption. I know many would be sad to see the system fade, but honestly, if what I posted earlier about new GH bodies, and the fact they are still making new lenses doesn't indicate they are sticking with it, I'm not sure what else they should do to reassure. If you look to the bottom of the promo poster for the 10-25 lens incoming, they have some numbers that would appear to be for primes upcoming from Pana-Leica for m43. 20, 24, 28, 35, 50.
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That's a bit contradictory though. On one hand you're saying don't worry, and on the other "I wouldn't go buying a tonne of gear for the system anytime soon." Why not? Has M4/3 got the skids under it? That's the implication.

To be blunt about it, camera manufacturers are in business to make money. They are not interested in what you bought last week or last year, but what you're going to buy next. If M4/3 sales are slowing, and they think they can persuade you to re-invest in a whole new full-frame outfit, that's what they'll do. M4/3 will not go away, I'm sure of that, but it may be left to stagnate somewhat.

Olympus have said they're going to do something big next year, and full-frame has been suggested as a possibility. Nothing more than speculation, and stranger things have happened, but as you say there's no real reason why they couldn't support both formats and play to the individual strengths of each. Just because something new comes along, that doesn't automatically mean everything else is redundant. Panasonic and Olympus will happily support M4/3 forever if it's still selling, but if it's not, they won't.
 
HoppyUK said:
That's a bit contradictory though. On one hand you're saying don't worry, and on the other "I wouldn't go buying a tonne of gear for the system anytime soon." Why not? Has M4/3 got the skids under it? That's the implication.

To be blunt about it, camera manufacturers are in business to make money. They are not interested in what you bought last week or last year, but what you're going to buy next. If M4/3 sales are slowing, and they think they can persuade you to re-invest in a whole new full-frame outfit, that's what they'll do. M4/3 will not go away, I'm sure of that, but it may be left to stagnate somewhat.

Olympus have said they're going to do something big next year, and full-frame has been suggested as a possibility. Nothing more than speculation, and stranger things have happened, but as you say there's no real reason why they couldn't support both formats and play to the individual strengths of each. Just because something new comes along, that doesn't automatically mean everything else is redundant. Panasonic and Olympus will happily support M4/3 forever if it's still selling, but if it's not, they won't.
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You really don't know me, I could jump ship at any minute, I have no loyalty to any gear, so none of this matters to me. You're way to quick to nit pick, it's very simple, what I feel and what the general M43 user feels are different things. I'm telling you what I think, and what they can do, or not all at once. I'd happily stick with for now if I had more gear but I've already sold over half of it. Sold a second body, 3 primes and a Tele lens in the past 8 months alone. Right now I only have one body, 2 lenses and a flash really. Anything else like my second flash can be used on any system. I'm only with the system 9mths, it's the system I have been with the shortest time. I love it, it's really surprised me quality wise, but will I cry if it dies out. Nope.
 
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HoppyUK said:
All of which might happen if the Panasonic cameras are actually good (or very, very good if they're to steal significant market share from Canikson, which is their only hope in a declining market) but the signs are not promising. Meanwhile, Panasonic has given the whole M4/3 market the jitters, and Olympus isn't helping by apparently doing nothing. It's not looking great so far - Panasonic's new 4K video had better be amazing...
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The MFT market is split, Panasonic and Olympus have been trying to increase the upper pricing envelope with £2K bodies and expensive primes and zooms.

So where do you put your camera division R&D money to get a decent return on it. I suspect it's an easy decision to leave the MFT stuff becalmed for a while - there's not a lot of opportunity to develop new stuff that will attract upgraders and FF mirrorless is capping the opportunities higher up.

My guess is that Panasonic's move to FF will cannibalise their high end MFT. They'll probably go quiet on MFT until there is a major feature upgrade they can offer - given even the low end MFT bodies are pretty well featured (eg. IBIS being pretty commons) then it would probably have to be - a better sensor and/or PDAF.

The low end MFT stuff is small and neat - even compared with the more compact FF mirrorless. It's also quite a step down in price.

That leaves Olympus with perhaps a bit more space and opportunity for the future in the MFT market if Panasonic are distracted elsewhere.
 
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Cagey75 said:
You really don't know me, I could jump ship at any minute, I have no loyalty to any gear, so none of this matters to me. You're way to quick to nit pick, it's very simple, what I feel and what the general M43 user feels are different things. I'm telling you what I think, and what they can do, or not all at once. I'd happily stick with for now if I had more gear but I've already sold over half of it. Sold a second body, 3 primes and a Tele lens in the past 8 months alone. Right now I only have one body, 2 lenses and a flash really. Anything else like my second flash can be used on any system. I'm only with the system 9mths, it's the system I have been with the shortest time. I love it, it's really surprised me quality wise, but will I cry if it dies out. Nope.
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Okay, so you were talking personally while I was making a general point, but TBH I'm not sure they're that different.

You say you could jump ship at any minute, but you've also said you can't afford to. Most people are in exactly the same position and because of the substantial investment that goes into any decent camera outfit it's prudent to take a careful long-term view. It may be only crystal ball gazing, but it's the question of the longer-term future for M4/3 that is undermined by Panasonic's new FF camera and Olympus' current lack of activity. M4/3 needs a shot in the arm (ie a significant new high-end camera) to make those doubts go away but if Olympus' rumoured new 'something big in 2019' turns out to be another full-frame venture, then M4/3 will be relegated to the backwaters.
 
HoppyUK said:
Okay, so you were talking personally while I was making a general point, but TBH I'm not sure they're that different.

You say you could jump ship at any minute, but you've also said you can't afford to. Most people are in exactly the same position and because of the substantial investment that goes into any decent camera outfit it's prudent to take a careful long-term view. It may be only crystal ball gazing, but it's the question of the longer-term future for M4/3 that is undermined by Panasonic's new FF camera and Olympus' current lack of activity. M4/3 needs a shot in the arm (ie a significant new high-end camera) to make those doubts go away but if Olympus' rumoured new 'something big in 2019' turns out to be another full-frame venture, then M4/3 will be relegated to the backwaters.
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I can afford to, just not where I want to jump :D I already have the support of the missus when I decide, we have some savings, she'd allow me dip if it mattered enough. We all want the new shinies, I can live without that's the difference. It's just pure wanting new toys for me atm - well, not strictly, I do actually fancy going back to Fuji as that is where I was happiest shooting. That's a genuine preference, but I am a bit torn. I'm spoiled by excellent IBIS and ultra responsive touch screen. Every format has it's advantages.

I did say I was only assuming too, of course I don't actually know!

When I say I wouldn't care, I would a little, I'd hate to see it gone completely, it's been good to me. It's a hell of a lot better than I used to give it credit for before trying.
 
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