Jury call-up.

[JohnC6]

My wife told me about a post in the forum she's on and I was taken aback at how it was dealt with. I've reproduced it here deleting any reference to identification.

The week before my stroke my husband had a letter summoning him to Jury service on 2nd December, as you know we expected to move house before Christmas so he sent off a request to be excused because our move out of the area would be imminent…..his request was refused…we could well have been living in Sussex and he’d have had to come back! Anyway by then I’d had my stroke so he wrote again telling them of our significant change in circumstances and once again asked to be excused from jury service,.He had to send proof that I had been ill and he stated that he was my sole carer….Today he got the Judge's decision on his request which is he has to give them the date of a Monday in the next year when he will be able to commence jury duty. We don’t know when I’ll be well enough to be left, depending on the case in court it could be for weeks and anyway, hopefully ,in a year's time we will be again trying to make the move to Sussex. To be honest we’re a bit %##+** off! They’ve extended the age for Jury duty now to 75, My husband is coming up to 73 in January, he has actually already done Jury duty several years ago, I’ve never done it . Had it been me summoned would they be asking me to name a Monday in the next year when I could do it? There must be many people in their 70’s who are either unwell themselves or are carers, I do think they are being a bit uncaring and harsh .

 

[lindsay]

That is shocking and inconsiderate. I'm a bit surprised tbh.

 

[Willid1]

You'd think they'd apply a bit of common sense. Having jury members that may be taken ill and have to stop serving in the middle of a case would be most undesirable. Similarly jurors having to travel long distances

Would be intersted to see how this pans out.

Didn't relaise they had moved the age limit to 75, I've already done it 3 times, don;t fancy doing it again.

D

 

[Box Brownie]

Does sound like a lack of understanding on the part of the decision maker

On Cab it says
"Applying to be excused because of your age
Anyone aged 18 or over on the electoral register can be summoned for jury service. You can apply to be excused if you're aged 71 or over. In these circumstances you can apply for an exemption up until the date you attend court, but it may be helpful to let the court know as soon as possible. If you're over 71 and want to serve on a jury, you're permitted to do so."

And on the .gov site
"Ask to be excused from jury service
If it’s not possible for you to do jury service in the next 12 months, you can ask to be excused. You’ll only be allowed to do this in exceptional circumstances, for example:

• you have a serious illness or disability that prevents you from doing jury service
• you’re a full time carer of someone with an illness or disability
• you’re a new parent and will not be able to serve at any other time in the next 12 months

You can also ask to be excused from jury service if you’ve done it in the last 2 years.

If you do not do jury service this time, you could still receive a summons in the future.

To ask to be excused, reply to your jury summons explaining your reasons in detail. You might need to give proof, for example, if you’re ill you might be asked for a letter from your doctor.

If your request is turned down, you can still ask to change the date of your jury service.

If you disagree with the decision​

You can appeal if your request to change the date of your jury service or be excused is refused. Write to the Jury Central Summoning Bureau, including:

• why you disagree with the decision
• your juror number (this is on your summons letter)
• your name and address
• your date of birth
• the name and address of the court you’ve been summoned to
• the dates of your jury service

Head of the Jury Central Summoning Bureau
HM Courts and Tribunals Service
Jury Central Summoning Bureau
Phoenix House
Bradford
BD3 7BH"

 

[Mr Bump]

i was tasked to do jewry service about 10 years ago
i was excused because i was working for the MOJ working in prisons
an easy out

 

[andya700]

That is IMHO an absolutely disgusting way to treat them. A total lack of consideration given the circumstances.

 

[ecoleman]

I’ve never thought about Jury service before.
Anybody now what happens if you’re self employed? I wouldn’t be able to just shut my business down for an indeterminate amount of time.

The gov website seems to suggest you can claim up to £64 a day to cover loss of earnings. They can p*** off. They”d need to pay a whole lot more than that. I could also potentially loose customers that would bring in income in the future.

 

[lindsay]

When I started contracting many years ago, I took out jury service insurance to get me the minimum I'd need in income replacement if I wre called up. Once I'd built up a rainy day fund, I cancelled it (after a few years), but it's still something I'd consider if I were in a less than ideal financial position.. But it's true that the system seems to be unrealistic for anyone who is self-employed or running a micro-enterprise that depends on their availability.
Thankfully the only time I was ever called up was when I was living in Germany, so I was excused.

 

[ecoleman]

When I started contracting many years ago, I took out jury service insurance to get me the minimum I'd need in income replacement if I wre called up. Once I'd built up a rainy day fund, I cancelled it (after a few years), but it's still something I'd consider if I were in a less than ideal financial position.. But it's true that the system seems to be unrealistic for anyone who is self-employed or running a micro-enterprise that depends on their availability.
Thankfully the only time I was ever called up was when I was living in Germany, so I was excused.

While insurance is an option it's not just about the money though. I answer phones, deal with customer service issues, take orders, pack orders, ensure orders are shipped on time etc. That can't just stop.

Considering a lord gets £300+/day just for turning up, £64/day is disgusting. It doesn't even cover minimum wage!

 

[lindsay]

Considering a lord gets £300+/day just for turning up, £64/day is disgusting. It doesn't even cover minimum wage!

This is perhaps the most salient point - it either means that scrutinising green and white papers is more important than deciding guilt in court cases, or that the high and mighty are worth more than ordinary folk. It rather feels that the latter is the the sad truth and is anachronistic given we are in the 21st century not the 18th.

 

[Raincloud]

Twice i have been called and twice i applied to get out of it and succeeded. Due to health issue.

Disgusting how the OP has been treated. If i were him i would take them to court!!! (Excuse the slight humour)...

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Just a point: We don't know who wrote this or where it was written, so perhaps we should treat its accuracy with care?

Box Brownie has quoted the official advice above and I would think that the section on care givers would cover the situation, provided the description quoted in John's post is accurate and not exagerated by the original writer.

 

[Dave Canon]

Didn't relaise they had moved the age limit to 75, I've already done it 3 times, don;t fancy doing it again.

D

Lucky you. I am now too old but have never been asked to do jury service but would like to have been. Just Googled and 35% of people in England and Wales serve on Juries though only half of those spend any significant time in court so not surprising that I was never called but very odd that you were asked 3 times.

Dave

 

[Willid1]

Lucky you. I am now too old but have never been asked to do jury service but would like to have been. Just Googled and 35% of people in England and Wales serve on Juries though only half of those spend any significant time in court so not surprising that I was never called but very odd that you were asked 3 times.

Dave

Funnily enough each jury service call was when I was living at different adresses.

Luckily I didn't get picked for any long cases, but it was indeed interesting if not a bit worrying at times to see the legal process working, or not working, from close up.

My memories are still quite vivid but I won't type more

David

 

[Box Brownie]

FWIW
I was called and served once but a few years later got another notice which IIRC I asked for a postponement. Some time after that and again IIRC I received a letter excusing me from further service.

PS not too sure now but I think the above was in late 80's to early 90's ?

PPS the case I did serve on was shall I say interesting as to the defendant's background.

 

[Brownie127]

You'd think they'd apply a bit of common sense. Having jury members that may be taken ill and have to stop serving in the middle of a case would be most undesirable. Similarly jurors having to travel long distances

Would be intersted to see how this pans out.

Didn't relaise they had moved the age limit to 75, I've already done it 3 times, don;t fancy doing it again.

D

I think the age limit was increased to 75 a couple of years ago.

I always thought that if you had served twice you were then exempt from serving again, but I could be wrong.

 

[boogie man]

I think the age limit was increased to 75 a couple of years ago.

I always thought that if you had served twice you were then exempt from serving again, but I could be wrong.

You can be called any number of times; I’ve done it 4 times now. The last time was a case that lasted 7 months; it was such an extended length of time that the judge gave all the jury an exemption for life (although we could still choose to do jury service again if we wanted, just we can’t be forced into it).

Not doubting the original poster put their quote up in good faith but I’d be a bit dubious about the facts of it. Most judges are considerate of people’s personal circumstances and would certainly allow an exemption in that case. You might not get off jury service for something like having a holiday booked, but medical issues would definitely be taken seriously.

 

[Suvv]

I have been on a jury twice. The first time I was working and got full pay anyway. The second time I was retired and just got the daily allowance as there was no financial loss, just days of my life lost forever - just imagine the uproar if working people had to sit on a jury at weekends for £5.71 a day!
I was called a third time but stated that I did not agree with some prisons being run by private firms and therefore I would not be able to find someone guilty but would vote with my conscience. I got a phone call a week later asking if I would agree to being removed from the jury panel.

 

[Steep]

I've been selected twice but never served. First time I think the guy plead guilty and it got cancelled a few days before. Second time I was working for myself, went to a job on Friday which turned out to be for the Prosecuting lawyer, In conversation I mentioned I was on jury duty on Monday, he said "no you're not" lol he of course had to block me from the Jury.

 

[onomatopoeia]

I definitely want to do it. There are a whole raft of crimes on the statute books that I believe are iniquitous and should not be crimes at all, so I would find according to my conscience as is the right of any juror (indeed, there is a plaque on display at the Old Bailey that celebrates this which any juror serving there is likely to see and read), and not convict if a case involving any of them came before I court where I was on the jury, irrespective of the evidence or what the judge says.

If you don't believe that's possible, search for "Bushel's case" for the original legal basis for jury equity (in 1670), or "Trudi Warner" for the Solicitor General being handed their a*se by Mr Justice Saini earlier this year on an application for contempt.

 

[F1.2]

Something I have not been asked to do.

 

[the black fox]

Hmmmm this brings back memories many many years ago I worked in the original Covent Garden market in London , ,right near bow street magistrates court , now in one of the markets underground cellars you could buy virtually anything that had been shoplifted , burgled ,stolen in London etc I.e if you needed @ new telly or a new camera just ask and it would appear the next day .. what actually made me laugh was the fact that a lot of the customers were still in in the court gear , or police uniforms . . Actual factual truth I saw it with my own eyes . Corruption starts at the top and dribbles down

 

[arclight]

My next door neighbour has been summoned (Scotland). This will be her 10th time. People who attend are seen as reliable and risk being recalled.
I am now inelligable due to age, but previously twice got letters of notification asking for my holiday dates. I just ignored them and heard nothing more.

 

[boogie man]

My next door neighbour has been summoned (Scotland). This will be her 10th time. People who attend are seen as reliable and risk being recalled.
I am now inelligable due to age, but previously twice got letters of notification asking for my holiday dates. I just ignored them and heard nothing more.

Good grief, 10 times???!!! Jury summons are supposedly sent out at random to eligible people on the electoral register. Your friend seems to have beaten the odds.

 

[JohnC6]

Just a point: We don't know who wrote this or where it was written, so perhaps we should treat its accuracy with care?

Box Brownie has quoted the official advice above and I would think that the section on care givers would cover the situation, provided the description quoted in John's post is accurate and not exagerated by the original writer.

Andrew..I said at the start of my post that I wouldn't divulge names or anything to identify the person who posted it on the forum concerned. This section of TP is open to "the world"..as I recall Marc once reminded someone, when he was a moderator, after that member posted personal details. It's a small, close-knit forum with members knowing each other, personally, for years and they are very supportive of each other. I can assure you,also Toni and Larry,who gave your post a 'like' , that there are absolutely no grounds to doubt any of what I have disclosed.

Regarding your point about carers,they. made an appeal after originally being turned down for exemption and that failed,too. Rest assured, what you read is an accurate ,bona fide account of what they experienced.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I can assure you,also Toni and Larry,who gave your post a 'like' , that there are absolutely no grounds to doubt any of what I have disclosed.

I accept that such is your honest belief.

Regarding your point about carers,they. made an appeal after originally being turned down for exemption and that failed,too. Rest assured, what you read is an accurate ,bona fide account of what they experienced.

However, when something appears contrary to other evidence, your readers may, and possibly should, consider the possibility that you have been misinformed. It's not in the least bit personal but rather the realisation that many people misremember, exagerate or deliberately lie.

There are various claims that most people lie regularly, in one way or another but, of course, those claims may themselves be lies...

 

[JohnC6]

I accept that such is your honest belief.

However, when something appears contrary to other evidence, your readers may, and possibly should, consider the possibility that you have been misinformed. It's not in the least bit personal but rather the realisation that many people misremember, exagerate or deliberately lie.

There are various claims that most people lie regularly, in one way or another but, of course, those claims may themselves be lies...

Ok, Andrew. I've related that my wife and,as I've said, she doesn't accept this account is in any way misleading. I also appreciate that what you've highlighted is not personal and I'm sorry you felt I might take it as such but appreciate the clarity.

So.... I was about to say this as a reason....... I think the answer lies in what Larry..boogieman, posted.. ie......."Most judges are reasonable " Clearly, this one wasn't. It's obviously down to the discretion of the judge in the case"..... but....my wife has just checked her forum and this post by a member seems to answer that point re individual judges. She worked in a crown court.

"I was part of a team that would send out a jury summons and we were very sensitive to juror's needs. Since then it has been centralised ,so more impersonal. Has he...[the lady's husband] thought of getting a letter from his GP to support his request ? Alternatively,asking to speak to the court jury officer., He could try calling the particular court"

So, it seems centralisation had taken away the personal and considerate touch. I wonder what the criteria is now ? Maybe it costs a lot of time...and money, selecting a new juror but,surely,they would just select one from a list..voters,maybe ?

 

[Brendan Mulachy]

i got called up for jury duty to a coroners court this year,thankfully i managed to get out of it mainly for the fact im employed by the same trust that the person died in , my daughter is desperate to be on a jury, sods law the only time shes been called, she had just had a baby, she was fuming

 

[gman]

I’ve never thought about Jury service before.
Anybody now what happens if you’re self employed? I wouldn’t be able to just shut my business down for an indeterminate amount of time.

The gov website seems to suggest you can claim up to £64 a day to cover loss of earnings. They can p*** off. They”d need to pay a whole lot more than that. I could also potentially loose customers that would bring in income in the future.

Yep, they certainly can when that's all they are willing to compensate. Thankfully their tightness extends to them not using Recorded/Signed For Delivery for the Jury Duty summons.