Japan to uk import tax
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Box Brownie
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Well, out of curiosity I looked and found this which may have nuance re: type of goods but looks like a starting point?
wise.com
Import Duty from Japan to the UK: How to calculate import tax
Import duty tax rates from Japan. Importing goods from Japan to the UK? Know how much you might have to pay for custom charges.
wise.com
JohnMcL7
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Anything under £135 is also due 20% VAT however there is no duty and also the seller must collect the VAT so the price you pay to the seller should be the final price. Over £135 and there is still the same 20% VAT but it must be collected by the courier company and also duty will be charged if applicable. This varies on the product but digital cameras which I think come under commodity code 8525890000 have 0% import duty. So you'd pay the item price and shipping to the seller then the courier would charge you 20% VAT plus their handling fee.
I've had a lot of fun recently learning this all the hard way after a shipping company managed to repeatedly make a complete mess of this...
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Right ok, cheers.
I’m looking at film cameras, most of the ones I’m looking at are in Japan. I’ll look but I assume the same general rule would apply. I don’t mind as long as I know. I once bought a Mamiya rb67 from Japan, ended up paying the same as it would have been in the uk. The condition was miles better than anything I saw in the uk though
dans_shutter
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@realspeed has recently made multiple purchases from Japan. I'm sure he's going to share his experience.
Found the commodity code for 35mm film cameras, 900653. It would appear based on a calculator I found that if the camera was valued at £200 then it would have a 4.2% duty and 20% vat. Roughly it would add £50. So in my head I’ll have to add 25-30% just to get a general idea of the price before looking into something in more depth
AndrewFlannigan
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Commodity codes!
I got a job developing an import tax calculator for a very large retail group in the early 1990s. At first glance it looked like a simple enough thing...
... then someone dropped the two volumes of the code book on my desk, each about four inches thick!
PTSDCommodity codes!
I got a job developing an import tax calculator for a very large retail group in the early 1990s. At first glance it looked like a simple enough thing...
... then someone dropped the two volumes of the code book on my desk, each about four inches thick!
realspeed
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Hi Dan only too happy to share the experience of buying direct from Japan
To start with I was vey sceptical ,like everyone else, about buying on the interweb let alone from Japan. Should I or should I not? went constantly through my mind. Ok decision made, go for it. Next was a price check, then condition, spending a lot of time looking at photos of lenses, I discovered several are just "stock" photos not of the actual item. Easy to find out if different companies show the exact same photo.
Ok found what I was looking for - right price -no dust visible on the lens in the picture. So onto the next step reading the description. The Jap;anese are very precise in this respect, that is their culture I discovered when out there on holiday. So if the item is classed as "mint" or "near mint" to me that means like new. The difference w is "near mint" may not come with instruction manual or box or ancellory item such as a lens hood, but still like new.. Normally mentioned in the item description. but worth checking via email to seller
Ok order placed and didn't have to wait long for it to enter the uk, tracking it on its journey through different countries was ineresting. Then comes customs imprt duty- VAT and any couriers costs . Even paying that still makes the item cheaper than the UK new prices. So why compare with new against used in the UK? simple because if one didn't know it would be very hard if not impossible to tell the difference.
Would I suggest others do the same? personal choice, but doing it with the provisors I mentioned and making sure the price differnence makes it worth it ,why not?
Quick note I hate to think at the number of 100-400mm pana MTF lenses I looked at advertised in Japan before finding exactly what I was after. does pay to look at as many as posible before deciding
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I think when the time comes I will be fine getting something from the Japan. I would prefer the uk, even if it was a little more expensive, purely because if it needs to be returned it would be easier, in theory. However there are essentially none of what I am looking into in the uk.
I do find the way they describe an item helpful and not helpful sometimes. It’s nice that they in general have a list and, haze, fungus etc. however I have seen a couple that are listed as near mint then in the description it will say haze some. To me that’s not near mint.
The issue I had with the import fees was that it was unknown. I wouldn’t have a problem with paying an extra amount if I knew going in what that amount was. Just don’t want the shock
That seems about right, about 20% or so in total
JohnMcL7
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That sounds about right, I don't know if it varies much but I usually seem to pay around £15 to the shipper for customs fees. I noticed UPS mentioned this on a recent shipment:
As another example, they misread the value as £140 so calculated the additional costs as £3 duty, £30 VAT and £14 handling charge so came to around £50. Some companies will charge to release the item but annoyingly some don't so I thought I hadn't been charged until I received a bill about a month later.
Some European companies will remove the local sales tax then add VAT so the final cost will end up around what the list price is which is a nice little bonus.
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Royal Mail do that. At least they charge a handling fee of £8. I work as a Postman that mainly works in the customer service point at a delivery office so I get a lot of questions as to why we’re charging this and that
the black fox
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What if as in the case of a lens I recently viewed the price was £135.99 do you then have to pay the duties on the full amount ?
It also carried a e.bay offer which brought the purchase price to around £132.00 but would you still get charged on the original price.
Free postage included as well
It also carried a e.bay offer which brought the purchase price to around £132.00 but would you still get charged on the original price.
Free postage included as well
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My experience regarding duty and VAT is it's hit and miss. I've only ever bought through From Japan (https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/). I think it will be different if you buy through ebay as ebay are committed to collecting the VAT, From Japan seems not to. General rules are, if the total cost is under £100 you probably won't get charged anything and if you have it sent by Japan Post/Royal Mail rather than a courier you're less likely to get charged. You might not get the JP/RM option - depends on what it is. Examples: I just bought a Horseman film back. Total cost including shipping by JP/RM was £83. I didn't get charged anything. A job lot of junk film cameras for £70 including shipping by FedEx - no charges. But I have been charged on higher value items and it usually works out to 20% plus duty plus fees as expected.
Regarding condition descriptions. My experience isn't as good as realspeed's. Be careful. Mint does NOT mean mint. Check the images real carefully. Less of a problem for me as I'm usually buying junk stuff to repair but even I've been caught out with some cameras being far worse than described. But then, that happens with UK sellers too. I've returned several items recently because they were not as described and some by dealers who really should know better.
Regarding condition descriptions. My experience isn't as good as realspeed's. Be careful. Mint does NOT mean mint. Check the images real carefully. Less of a problem for me as I'm usually buying junk stuff to repair but even I've been caught out with some cameras being far worse than described. But then, that happens with UK sellers too. I've returned several items recently because they were not as described and some by dealers who really should know better.
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This is where it gets tricky. Based on my experience serving people at Royal Mail what you bought the item for actually means nothing. It is what the sender lists the value as on the customs form. I’ve had people go mental at me for having to pay massive charges on cheap gifts they’ve been sent because the person put the wrong value on the form. They could be lying of course but in either case it’s done by the amount on the customs form. Technically what you paid for it doesn’t really matter. If you paid £200 but they say it’s £300, your paying based on the £300
JohnMcL7
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It's based on the final price. If the item sold for under £135 then the seller should be collecting the VAT, if the value is over £135 then the seller shouldn't be charging any tax and it should instead be collected by the delivery company based on the value provided on the customs declaration.
Mostly Vintage Cameras
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All goods over £135 or £139 (I forget which) are vat free. Over this normal vat rates apply on the full value. Digital cameras from Japan are duty free but not vat free. Lenses attract vat and duty unless imported as part of a kit with a digital Camera.
I bought a used lens from Japan paid the retailer the asking price and fed ex invoiced me vat duty and their fee which I paid online. No fuss, no issues.
I received a film camera from Australia which was a commercial sample but the guy sending it tickled the retail item bix and selected AUD300, about £150. The Royal Mail charge was more than the official taxes! About £39 all in as I recall. As a commercial sample imported on a temporary basis it should have been free of such costs!
Don't ask your seller to send your goods as a sample or similar as doing so would be a crime. Legitimate sellers will refuse and those that are prepared to lie to government agencies would also lie to you so why shop with them?
I bought a used lens from Japan paid the retailer the asking price and fed ex invoiced me vat duty and their fee which I paid online. No fuss, no issues.
I received a film camera from Australia which was a commercial sample but the guy sending it tickled the retail item bix and selected AUD300, about £150. The Royal Mail charge was more than the official taxes! About £39 all in as I recall. As a commercial sample imported on a temporary basis it should have been free of such costs!
Don't ask your seller to send your goods as a sample or similar as doing so would be a crime. Legitimate sellers will refuse and those that are prepared to lie to government agencies would also lie to you so why shop with them?
It is, but it’s dependant on what is put on the customs form. Providing the sender puts that on the customs form then it’s based on the selling price.
Are you sure? I work for Royal Mail, we charge an £8 handling fee, the rest is the import/VAT charge. You would have paid Royal Mail the full amount. We pay HMRC the amount to release it and then you pay us back, but with the annoying added £8 charge. I work in the customer services part of a delivery office, I book a lot of customs charges in for collection and send out those dreaded white cards asking for money! It’s a bit sneaky but I’ve seen some of the new ones and I’m pretty sure they have left off the fact that we charge £8 as a handling fee, either that or they have stopped charging it, but knowing Royal Mail that seems unlikely
Mostly Vintage Cameras
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No, I'm not as I just chekked the unboxing video and it was indeed an £8 Royal Mail charge on top of £30 add of charges. It certailnly felt like more at the time!
It’s still bad to be honest. I’m not really sure what the charge is for. When I book 1 in it literally takes me 15sec!
JohnMcL7
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If the item is less than £135 then the customs form doesn't come into it because the seller has to charge the VAT at that point before shipping, it can't be left for the courier to collect based on the customs declaration.
You still have to put a value on the customs. I’m just saying that it’s not what your paid for it, it’s what the sender has put on the form. If they mess up and put £1350 that’s what HMRC look at, as far as I know
It's to pay your wages for doing the booking in !! Admin charges also now seem prevalent in the insurance industry for making small policy changes even though the time taken seems small. I guess it's a combination of paying for staff, running computer systems, overheads etc plus adding to profitability
I suppose so, £8 always seemed like a bit of a con really. It’s a weird company anyway. I’ve only worked at 2 places long term, a bank and Royal Mail. Royal Mail is very strange, they spend money and put their focus in strange places. The vans we drive are old and falling apart, the PDA’s we use to scan parcels don’t work very well and yet they invested money into a clocking in and out system that doesn’t make any difference as if your late there’s no follow up. Don’t even get me started on the new USO alternate day mail delivery they proposed not long ago. Anyway…
AndrewFlannigan
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I think that's because different managements made changes without thinking through how that would affect future amendments.
I did several months on an upgrade to the letter address scanners and that was, in the vernacular "interesting". It turned out to be less than straightforward to connect a postcode to a walk, especially on the boundaries. Luckily, someone else had to "round off the rough edges", all I had to do was make the program assess the postcode in a different way.
Sounds about right. It doesn’t help that letters are slowly dying. The business is trying to modernise but it has 1 foot in the past. Really they need to start all over, which they clearly can’t do.
Personally I think they will slowly move all parcels over to parcelforce and let Royal Mail slowly die as the letters drop off
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The long and short of it...if you are still wondering. Whatever I buy from outside the UK (it used to be outside the EU), I would allow for another 25% on top in my head in my budget.
I don't try to work it out to the exact percent or penny, but that is the rough number I allow for.
Sometimes, some companies like Amazon US or Thomann in Germany will put the price INCLUDING VAT in the check out and then everything is done correctly from the paperwork side to HMRC from their end.
But you cannot rely on that from smaller retailers, they might charge you their local tax and then you get hit by HMRC again when it lands here. What are you going to do? refuse to pay because you "think" you paid it already and waste time and money to try to get it elsewhere?
The price in my head is the worst case scenario, that scenario is the price I paid on checkout + 25% vs UK price.
If that price is significantly less, then I would go for it, if it comes through unscathed then happy days. If I have to pay the VAT and duty and the fees then so be it.
This is the mindset people should have, balance it with warranty, ease of return and how you want to take your chances.
And it makes no difference if it's Japan or Australia or the South Pole. Since we left the EU every country is the same.
I don't try to work it out to the exact percent or penny, but that is the rough number I allow for.
Sometimes, some companies like Amazon US or Thomann in Germany will put the price INCLUDING VAT in the check out and then everything is done correctly from the paperwork side to HMRC from their end.
But you cannot rely on that from smaller retailers, they might charge you their local tax and then you get hit by HMRC again when it lands here. What are you going to do? refuse to pay because you "think" you paid it already and waste time and money to try to get it elsewhere?
The price in my head is the worst case scenario, that scenario is the price I paid on checkout + 25% vs UK price.
If that price is significantly less, then I would go for it, if it comes through unscathed then happy days. If I have to pay the VAT and duty and the fees then so be it.
This is the mindset people should have, balance it with warranty, ease of return and how you want to take your chances.
And it makes no difference if it's Japan or Australia or the South Pole. Since we left the EU every country is the same.
D
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The term hit or miss is just about what it amounts to. My son who lives in Holland bought a wedding present for my daughter (his sister). Taking due diligence he contacted HMRC about the duty (everything) he would have to pay. This was about 2 months before he and his family came over for the wedding. He didn't tell me how much he paid for the present but the duty came to about £88.
On arrival at Harwich he did his bit and produced the item and the bill of sale from the shop he bought it from they recalculated the duty and the now wanted £117 and this was despite the letter from HMRC saying the duty would be about £88. There was no moving them about sticking to the duty shown on the letter from their HQ. There was nothing for it, he had to cough up but it still left a nasty taste.
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HMRC only tell you the VAT and duty, what they don't tell you is the courier is the one who have to pay that up front.
Basically when a container comes in through DHL or whoever, instead of the shipment sitting at port, and then DHL contacting every recipient in the UK about their upcoming parcel and then wait for each single person to pay up, then. going to tell HMRC which one has paid and then which one gets released. What DHL has is an account with HMRC, in the millions and millions of pounds, and everything is paid upfront.
Then when you go get your parcel from the post office (RM) or when DHL delivers it, or FedEX who bill you afterwards, they are asking for the HMRC tax, duty and also their fee for doing this up front.
Sure, you can argue the cost of this fee, and I have and I have also got this waived, but I have only ever been successful doing this with FedEx, only because they send me the bill AFTER it's been delivered. With all the other couriers, it's almost impossible to argue because they basically have the parcel and holding it kind of to ransom.
D
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I don't know if you understood my post.
There was no paid courier (DHL etc) it was my son, a family member, taking a present into the country for his sister (my daughter).
HMRC at Harwich were given all the information, including the letter that he had received stating the duty payable was £88 and the receipt from the shop that sold him the object in The Hague. This was ignored/dismissed! they asked for £117 which was paid grudging on the spot by my son.
But my point is, If they are not all reading the same rules and interpreting them identically it is anybodies guess what the end result could be.
I was going to add that I am going over to Holland via Harwich/Hook of Holland next month and intend to visit a camera shop in Delft where they have a really nice selection of classic film cameras/lenses etc. If I buy something we will see if it is over their threshold how much I will have to pay
There was no paid courier (DHL etc) it was my son, a family member, taking a present into the country for his sister (my daughter).
HMRC at Harwich were given all the information, including the letter that he had received stating the duty payable was £88 and the receipt from the shop that sold him the object in The Hague. This was ignored/dismissed! they asked for £117 which was paid grudging on the spot by my son.
But my point is, If they are not all reading the same rules and interpreting them identically it is anybodies guess what the end result could be.
I was going to add that I am going over to Holland via Harwich/Hook of Holland next month and intend to visit a camera shop in Delft where they have a really nice selection of classic film cameras/lenses etc. If I buy something we will see if it is over their threshold how much I will have to pay
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Box Brownie
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I might have missed when you said this happened but your post piqued my curiosity about HMRC Harwick office.
I have found that it permanently close in 2017/18 so if(?) he brought the item in after that date perhaps there was a 3rd party agency operating the Import Tax collection........and they levied a fee, which for sure should be stated by them!
Though of course all the above is irrelevant if he came through before the closure
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D
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If that is/was the case and it was in December 2014
So if I do buy something when I return home after my visit who do I pay any duty which I may be liable for ?
As a passenger I have probably been over to Holland via that route perhaps 8-9 times since 2013 and have been stopped perhaps twice and I have never had anything to pay. I have always assumed the checks at the port were always HMRC.
So if I do buy something when I return home after my visit who do I pay any duty which I may be liable for ?
As a passenger I have probably been over to Holland via that route perhaps 8-9 times since 2013 and have been stopped perhaps twice and I have never had anything to pay. I have always assumed the checks at the port were always HMRC.
Who knows what rules they are reading. The only insight I have (and it’s very very minor) is about 10 years ago I applied for a job at FedEx next to stansted airport calculating and applying import duties. At the interview I had to do a short written test with a calculator to work out a few simple percentages etc. That suggested to me that there is a lot of room for human error, I’d assumed that at the most it would people inputting numbers into a computer and it spit out the charge that had to be applied.
That might just have been a standard thing that had no bearing on the job but the impression I got from what they said + the test was that people were more involved that you’d think. In any case I didn’t get the job, thankfully, the commute would have been nasty
D
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Hmmmmm, 'Nuf said!
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So factoring @Raymond Lin's figure roughly of factoring 25% for duties, handling etc a total cost of approximately £325. The same USED lens is at UK retailers for £360-£375. So a saving yes, but not as much as comparing used to new.