Is This Possible ?

[TG.]

I was shooting outside yesterday in the bright sunlight, the light was hitting the subjects from the side so creating a shadow half way over there faces, i was trying to shoot at 2.8 to get some bokeh in the shots, however the shadows where spoiling them, so tried my on board flash, but at 2.8 was just blowing the whole subject out, tried my SB-900 off camera but was still getting blown shots, i'm obviously doing something quite wrong, or is it just not possible with a speedlight and camera set at 2.8 ? advice greatly appreciated.

 

[Wail]

I've not tried this, but I think using an ND filter will help in this situation :shrug:

 

[Rough Edges]

What ISO were you set on? If you can lower it that would help. Moving flashes further away is another thing I would try. Try lowering the power output of the flash too..

I am sure there are other things you could do...... I just don't know them LOL

 

[AliB]

Just need to slow down and think logically.

Problem= too much light from the flash
Solution = turn it down

Shooting an auto modes you need -ve flash comp
Shooting in manual, just turn it down.

I see you have a D700 and SB900 (same as me). Try shooting in aperture priority and putting the flash in TTL BL. That means it will both meter and balance the flash for you.

 

[OneTen]

In TTL will the camera set a maximum shutter speed? At f/2.8 on a bright day you'd be looking at a high shutter speed normally, so maybe the camera has capped it. If this is the case, can the flash be set to high-speed sync in order to use faster shutter speeds?

 

[TG.]

What ISO were you set on?

ISO 100

Just need to slow down and think logically.

Problem= too much light from the flash
Solution = turn it down

Shooting an auto modes you need -ve flash comp
Shooting in manual, just turn it down.

I see you have a D700 and SB900 (same as me). Try shooting in aperture priority and putting the flash in TTL BL. That means it will both meter and balance the flash for you.

Tried exposure comp at lowest level, but no good, never tried TTL-BL though, so will give that a go

At f/2.8 on a bright day you'd be looking at a high shutter speed normally.....can the flash be set to high-speed sync in order to use faster shutter speeds?

Will try this also

At one point i had the camera on manual, set at at AP/2.8 SS/8000 and it was still to blowing the subjects out, back to the drawing board, will try out some of the suggestions

 

[cyclone]

The sun was too bright to shoot at f/2.8/100 if you were still blowing out the skin at 1/8000.
You'd need to find shade or fit ND filters.

 

[Lornholio]

A reflector on the shadow side is the simplest solution here.

 

[AliB]

Yep, 1/8000 is max speed on a D700 and ISO was the lowest so you don't really have anywhere to go from there. Stop down, find shade, run away!! lol

 

[TG.]

A reflector on the shadow side is the simplest solution here.

Wasn't really feasible as it was a band playing outdoors

run away!! lol

This is what i concluded in the end

 

[HoppyUK]

In TTL will the camera set a maximum shutter speed? At f/2.8 on a bright day you'd be looking at a high shutter speed normally, so maybe the camera has capped it. If this is the case, can the flash be set to high-speed sync in order to use faster shutter speeds?

Sounds like the answer

With flash switched on, the camera won't go above the x-sync speed in any of the auto modes. It will have been flashing at you in the viewfinder, to warn of over exposure, but you couldn't see it for the bright light.

Switch on high speed sync (FP Flash in Nikon speak). That's what it was designed for.

 

[TG.]

Switch on high speed sync (FP Flash in Nikon speak). That's what it was designed for.

Ok will give this a go, will this also work if the flash is off camera, or does it need to be on the hot-shoe ?

 

[HoppyUK]

Ok will give this a go, will this also work if the flash is off camera, or does it need to be on the hot-shoe ?

With iTTL, yes

 

[specialman]

But remember that FP flash doesn't allow monumental amounts of flash power to be produced because of the strobe effect employed....

...okay for portraits but lighting larger subjects might be a bit trickier....

 

[TG.]

With iTTL, yes

Richard can you please explain how i do this ? as i've set my camera to FP but it still caps at a shutter speed 320 in TTL mode, when the pop up flash is out, which means i can't go any higher, and you need the pop up flash to trigger the speed light, ethier that's the way it is, or i'm missing something drastic

 

[HoppyUK]

Richard can you please explain how i do this ? as i've set my camera to FP but it still caps at a shutter speed 320 in TTL mode, when the pop up flash is out, which means i can't go any higher, and you need the pop up flash to trigger the speed light, ethier that's the way it is, or i'm missing something drastic

Sorry Tel, I can't really advise. I don't use Nikon and am not familiar with its operating.

All I know is that Nikon CLS/iTTL is capable of remote high speed sync, same as my Canon. I just switch it on, and I don't see why Nikon should be any different.

You need one of the Nikon flash gurus.

 

[TG.]

Sorry Tel, I can't really advise. I don't use Nikon and am not familiar with its operating.

Ok Richard no worries, i will keep digging, it's really bugging me now i can get the camera to high speed sync on manual, but not TTL, and i just can't find anything in the D700/SB-900 manuals :bang:

 

[Wail]

I believe, if you're on Manual mode ... on your D700, go to CUSTOM SETTING MENUE, option e1 (Flash sync speed), choose the first option 1/320 (Auto FP).

Then e3 (Flash control for built-in flash), Commander mode, put your flash onto TTL.

With this, you ought to be able to decide on what shutter speed you'd like to use.

 

[TG.]

I believe, if you're on Manual mode ... on your D700, go to CUSTOM SETTING MENUE, option e1 (Flash sync speed), choose the first option 1/320 (Auto FP).

Then e3 (Flash control for built-in flash), Commander mode, put your flash onto TTL.

With this, you ought to be able to decide on what shutter speed you'd like to use.

I already tried all of the above, but the shutter speed still only goes up to 1/320 with on board flash up, the only way you can choose the shutter speed to a max of 8000 with the on board flash up, is if you put in commander mode, then put it in -- mode which i thought was switching the flash off, but i'm not sure if it's operating the SB-900 in TTL, maybe the only way of doing this is with a SU-800, but it's driving me a bit :nuts: now, but thanks for your reply Wail

 

[fraggle101]

is it setting the flash off?

Make sure the flash is also set to 'Remote' on the on/off switch..

In the commander menu make sure you have the flash group set to ttl..

On the flash make sure you select the correct channel & group.. it should work.. unless the camera is not reaching the flash, the sensor is on the side of the flash and sometimes it cant communicate, it may default to sp mode if there is no ttl flash connected..

I dont think the on-board flash is capable of fast sync so if its not connecting due to line of sight problems, or the bright sun/light is interfering with the infra-red..

 

[HoppyUK]

I think with Nikon that when the flash is in the -- mode you're only switching the main flash off, not the pre-flash which is the command signal to the slave. That's what you want.

Since the pop-up flash cannot do FP flash, that kind of makes sense. The pop-up hasn't got enough power to do FP, but it can send a command signal to your SB900 slave.

 

[TG.]

is it setting the flash off?

Make sure the flash is also set to 'Remote' on the on/off switch..

In the commander menu make sure you have the flash group set to ttl..

On the flash make sure you select the correct channel & group.. it should work.. unless the camera is not reaching the flash, the sensor is on the side of the flash and sometimes it cant communicate, it may default to sp mode if there is no ttl flash connected..

I dont think the on-board flash is capable of fast sync so if its not connecting due to line of sight problems, or the bright sun/light is interfering with the infra-red..

The infra red seems to be communicating ok, it's the shutter speed which is the problem, it won't go any higher than 320 in FP and TTL in commander mode when the on board flash is open, however if i turn it to -- setting then the shutter speed goes up to max 8000 with the on board flash open, maybe thats the answer but it's not TTL :shrug:

 

[TG.]

Since the pop-up flash cannot do FP flash, that kind of makes sense. The pop-up hasn't got enough power to do FP, but it can send a command signal to your SB900 slave.

That does seem to make sense Richard, although there doesn't seem to be much power coming from the SB-900 on those settings, would that be correct ?

 

[HoppyUK]

That does seem to make sense Richard, although there doesn't seem to be much power coming from the SB-900 on those settings, would that be correct ?

If the SB900 is firing, then it's receiving a command signal. If you've set the pop-up commander correctly, that should be an FP flash.

You can't tell by looking at it - take a picture. Take a shot with the shutter speed set high, like 1/1000sec. If the frame is clean, then FP flash is working. If half the frame is black, it's normal flash.

 

[TG.]

IYou can't tell by looking at it - take a picture. Take a shot with the shutter speed set high, like 1/1000sec. If the frame is clean, then FP flash is working. If half the frame is black, it's normal flash.

Just took a picture indoors, S/1000 second Aperture 2.8, the photo is almost black, but i know the SB-900 fired ok, not sure if this is because it's indoors though, maybe i should try it outside when it's bright :shrug:

 

[fraggle101]

You haven't set the FLASH to SU$ mode have you? cos then the flash WILL fire, but it'll go at the pre-flash instead of the main.. so it'll fire too soon and have no affect.. that will give you a black frame even if it SEEMS to have fired correctly..

 

[HoppyUK]

Just took a picture indoors, S/1000 second Aperture 2.8, the photo is almost black, but i know the SB-900 fired ok, not sure if this is because it's indoors though, maybe i should try it outside when it's bright :shrug:

No, you don't need it to be bright, better if it's not. That way the only exposure visible is going to be the flash.

What do you mean by almost black? Very dark all over, or part with an image and the rest black with a dividing line running across the frame? Is the flash set to manual FP at low power?

Try 1/1000sec at f/5.6 ISO 400 and shoot a plain wall. The flash should be set to iTTL. Shoot one pic with the flash off - it should be very dark. Then with flash. The difference between the images is the FP flash, so long as there is no black band anywhere and regardless of the exposure level.

That will at least establish that the thing is working.

 

[ianbarber]

If you are running the SB900 wireless using the commander mode, put the popup flash to -- in the settings as this will then only send the Infa Red Signal to the SB900 and will not add to the flash exposure.

Put the camera to 1/320 High Speed Sync in the menu, set the camera on M and then dial in anything upto 1/8000. Use the f stop for your desired DOF.

If you are using it for fill, then I would use TTL BL so the flash is balanced with the Ambient (sun) and adjust the FEC on the SB-900.

Just remember that the FEC on the SB-900 only affects the Flash exposure but the FEC on the D700 will affect the entire exposre, also note that using both FEC on the camera and the SB900 will effect each other, e.g, -1 on sb-900 and -1 on camera = 0.

Ian

 

[TG.]

No, you don't need it to be bright, better if it's not. That way the only exposure visible is going to be the flash.

What do you mean by almost black? Very dark all over, or part with an image and the rest black with a dividing line running across the frame? Is the flash set to manual FP at low power?

Try 1/1000sec at f/5.6 ISO 400 and shoot a plain wall. The flash should be set to iTTL. Shoot one pic with the flash off - it should be very dark. Then with flash. The difference between the images is the FP flash, so long as there is no black band anywhere and regardless of the exposure level.

That will at least establish that the thing is working.

There is no band of black on the pics, in fact the one without the flash on was very very slightly lighter, so i'm guessing it's working ok.

If you are running the SB900 wireless using the commander mode, put the popup flash to -- in the settings as this will then only send the Infa Red Signal to the SB900 and will not add to the flash exposure.

Put the camera to 1/320 High Speed Sync in the menu, set the camera on M and then dial in anything upto 1/8000. Use the f stop for your desired DOF.

If you are using it for fill, then I would use TTL BL so the flash is balanced with the Ambient (sun) and adjust the FEC on the SB-900.

Just remember that the FEC on the SB-900 only affects the Flash exposure but the FEC on the D700 will affect the entire exposre, also note that using both FEC on the camera and the SB900 will effect each other, e.g, -1 on sb-900 and -1 on camera = 0.

Ian

Thats exactly what i've been doing now, however i'm sure you can't get TTL-BL mode unless the flash is on the hot shoe, if thats not the case can you explain how to change it over, as i can't find how too, thanks.

 

[ianbarber]

TTL-BL will Not work in remote mode.

This is not allowed, because of the way the TTL-BL system works. The ambient light is measured by the camera light meter, and it is basically the brighter background behind the subject. Then, the flash power is set under the assumption that the flash is at the same distance from the subject as the camera and pointed in the same direction. If the flash is not on camera, both of these assumptions become questionable, and the TTL-BL function won't work right.

Note that when using the flash on the SC-17 cable, you have to be very careful to keep the flash at the same distance as the camera from the subject for TTL-BL to work right. Also, if you move the flash around to the side of the subject, TTL-BL will no longer work right.

 

[HoppyUK]

There is no band of black on the pics, in fact the one without the flash on was very very slightly lighter, so i'm guessing it's working ok.

Doesn't sound right. Without flash should be virually black; with flash some kind of image evenly exposed top to bottom of the frame

I think Ian's your man...

 

[TG.]

TTL-BL will Not work in remote mode.

I think that's what i was saying i'm beginning to think the FP mode is only possible with the flash on the hot shoe, or possibly using an SU-800 (or equivalent) to trigger the flash as that way the on board flash doesn't need to be up :|

 

[ianbarber]

I think that's what i was saying i'm beginning to think the FP mode is only possible with the flash on the hot shoe, or possibly using an SU-800 (or equivalent) to trigger the flash as that way the on board flash doesn't need to be up :|

FP mode will work with the SB-900 off camera but you will NOT be able to use TTL-BL

 

[TG.]

FP mode will work with the SB-900 off camera but you will NOT be able to use TTL-BL

Thanks for the input Ian, i'm still having trouble with it though, done everything suggested, but i'm just getting a dark photo even though i can see the SB-900 flashing, it's just not making sense :bang: unless it's because i'm trying it indoors and not outside.

 

[SparkUK]

Just run through how you have your pop up flash set again? Was it TTL or --? There are some good youtube tutorials for off camera flash, mostly D200 with SB800 but still worth watching.

 

[TG.]

I think Ian's your man...

Yes you were right Richard, i've just had a long conversation with Ian after he very kindly PMed me his number, and he's put me right on this and some other stuff, i just need to get out and practice it now, many thanks Ian for taking the time out to speak to me by phone

There are some good youtube tutorials for off camera flash, mostly D200 with SB800 but still worth watching.

Thanks mate, will also check those out

 

[HoppyUK]

Yes you were right Richard, i've just had a long conversation with Ian after he very kindly PMed me his number, and he's put me right on this and some other stuff, i just need to get out and practice it now, many thanks Ian for taking the time out to speak to me by phone

Hoorah!

 

[Wail]

Yes you were right Richard, i've just had a long conversation with Ian after he very kindly PMed me his number, and he's put me right on this and some other stuff, i just need to get out and practice it now, many thanks Ian for taking the time out to speak to me by phone



<snip>

Would you mind letting us know how it works,

 

[oskanoears]

nd filter on the flash set to 1/128 power th whole flash and 2.8 in sunlight task is possible but tough to achieve suggested practice if it aint sunny involves whacking up the iso to achieve the same over expo problem and playing til you get it right.... failing this shoot higher f stops and blur out the back is PS... although experience shows me it never looks as good as getting it in camera. hope this hepls

 

[TG.]

Hoorah!

Indeedy

Would you mind letting us know how it works,

Yes no problem, however i won't be phoning you, unless i can reverse the charges , i will PM you later how Ian explained it to me, just on way out now though but i will do it when i get back

nd filter on the flash set to 1/128 power th whole flash and 2.8 in sunlight task is possible but tough to achieve suggested practice if it aint sunny involves whacking up the iso to achieve the same over expo problem and playing til you get it right.... failing this shoot higher f stops and blur out the back is PS... although experience shows me it never looks as good as getting it in camera. hope this hepls

Ok many thanks for the input