Is there anything worse than getting tucked up........

[mex]

My daughters are both in Uni. one in Manchester the other in Hull, both are planning on coming home to South Wales for Christmas. My daughter in Hull is planning on coming home by train as she did in October, however in October the fare was £82.00 return, the price for her ticket December 8th is £211.00 (....profiteering much?) My daughter in Manchester is now planning on coming home using Megabus costing just £21 compared to £108 by train. The only plus point for using the train is in my opinion the journey time. It's no wonder people don't want to or are areluctant to use trains.

 

[cambsno]

My daughters are both in Uni. one in Manchester the other in Hull, both are planning on coming home to South Wales for Christmas. My daughter in Hull is planning on coming home by train as she did in October, however in October the fare was £82.00 return, the price for her ticket December 8th is £211.00 (....profiteering much?) My daughter in Manchester is now planning on coming home using Megabus costing just £21 compared to £108 by train. The only plus point for using the train is in my opinion the journey time. It's no wonder people don't want to or are areluctant to use trains.

We should simply look at the German model for trains and copy that.

 

[ancient_mariner]

That price hike is not kind.

 

[boyfalldown]

Public transport is never going to be viable at those costs

 

[Boss]

My daughters are both in Uni. one in Manchester the other in Hull, both are planning on coming home to South Wales for Christmas. My daughter in Hull is planning on coming home by train as she did in October, however in October the fare was £82.00 return, the price for her ticket December 8th is £211.00 (....profiteering much?) My daughter in Manchester is now planning on coming home using Megabus costing just £21 compared to £108 by train. The only plus point for using the train is in my opinion the journey time. It's no wonder people don't want to or are areluctant to use trains.

My son is coming up from London for xmas. There are so many track repairs scheduled he has no idea when he will get a train home.

 

[sirch]

My kids are in the same boat, I'm going to pick them up, it's easier and cheaper and means they aren't getting Covid on a bus. Of course the late announcement of Christmas plans has meant that no students could book in advance and get savings on fairs. This government just sees students as cash cows because how and when student debt gets repaid won't be Bois's problem.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

In much of Europe, public transport is seen as a public service. Pricing is therefor seen as a contribution by each user to the costs of the service and not as a means of obtaining profit. Britain has changed from this model to a profit driven system. The argument most often advanced in favour of this is that profit driven organisations are more customer oriented. It is true that the private operators have invested in new equipment and facilities. However, British investment is dwarfed by the service oriented services of Europe who spend far more on maintenance and renewals.

It seems to me that British public transport isn't heading in the right direction...

 

[Boss]

In much of Europe, public transport is seen as a public service. Pricing is therefor seen as a contribution by each user to the costs of the service and not as a means of obtaining profit. Britain has changed from this model to a profit driven system. The argument most often advanced in favour of this is that profit driven organisations are more customer oriented. It is true that the private operators have invested in new equipment and facilities. However, British investment is dwarfed by the service oriented services of Europe who spend far more on maintenance and renewals.

It seems to me that British public transport isn't heading in the right direction...

View attachment 300051

We used to have " Hoppers" Transit sized mini buses whizzing around everywhere. Great service. Not to be seen now.

 

[tarric]

In much of Europe, public transport is seen as a public service. Pricing is therefor seen as a contribution by each user to the costs of the service and not as a means of obtaining profit. Britain has changed from this model to a profit driven system. The argument most often advanced in favour of this is that profit driven organisations are more customer oriented. It is true that the private operators have invested in new equipment and facilities. However, British investment is dwarfed by the service oriented services of Europe who spend far more on maintenance and renewals.

It seems to me that British public transport isn't heading in the right direction...

View attachment 300051

Much of Europe's and the rest of the worlds publicly owned transport companies owns the majority of the UK franchises and uses the profit to reinvest in infrastructure in their own countries.

 

[srichards]

Sometimes you can get tickets for bits of the journey that add up to the whole one for far less than buying it as one.

Tickety Split Ticketing - Book your cheap split train tickets here

Daily, anytime and advanced split tickets for UK national rail travel.

ticketysplit.trainsplit.com

 

[nilagin]

My kids are in the same boat, I'm going to pick them up, it's easier and cheaper and means they aren't getting Covid on a bus. Of course the late announcement of Christmas plans has meant that no students could book in advance and get savings on fairs. This government just sees students as cash cows because how and when student debt gets repaid won't be Bois's problem.

It has sweet FA to do with the government or Boris.

 

[cambsno]

It has sweet FA to do with the government or Boris.

Not strictly true - they could re-natoinalise the railways which I think would be a good thing. Just look at the great German train system!

 

[nilagin]

Not strictly true - they could re-natoinalise the railways which I think would be a good thing. Just look at the great German train system!

They have more than enough to cope with at the moment.

 

[Mr Bump]

when i was working up in Scotland i used to buy tickets for my missus to come up on a thursday eve and back to leeds on sunday aft, i used to spend quite a while on trainline.
As said above spread the journey into multiple trips and you would be surprised, also travel at odd times.
used to get wife to scotland and back for about £70 return

 

[Pound Coin]

If you price Hull to (say) Cardiff at 45p a mile, it is £111 one way.

With climate change and other considerations, it might be that we have an unrealistically low expectation of travel costs...

 

[Pound Coin]

Cross Country (in my experience) rarely do discounted fares.

 

[Mozthecat]

Following the government effective taking control of all the rail franchises, due to the downturn in travellers from covid, you can expect to see a lot less in the way of cheap fares. Rules on refunds have also been tightened up.

This has been imposed from the treasury and department for transport as the franchisees are now all on management contracts to run the service at an agreed fixed profit level.

 

[sirch]

It has sweet FA to do with the government or Boris.

Really? So I guess this government didn't decide to tell universities to start term in September so that students could pay in full for tuition and accomodation, without which a lot of universities and accommodation providers would go bust? I guess it wasn't this government that dithered around with starting lock down and then delayed setting out what the restrictions would be after lock down so that students couldn't book cheap fairs in advance? No of course it has nothing to do with the people who are supposed to be running the country, at least that is what this feckless bunch of cnuts want you to think.

 

[ancient_mariner]

If you price Hull to (say) Cardiff at 45p a mile, it is £111 one way.

With climate change and other considerations, it might be that we have an unrealistically low expectation of travel costs...

TBH 45ppm is the level I'd expect to be reimursed if I made the journey in a private car - I should expect <half that cost by public transport.

 

[nilagin]

Really? So I guess this government didn't decide to tell universities to start term in September so that students could pay in full for tuition and accomodation, without which a lot of universities and accommodation providers would go bust? I guess it wasn't this government that dithered around with starting lock down and then delayed setting out what the restrictions would be after lock down so that students couldn't book cheap fairs in advance? No of course it has nothing to do with the people who are supposed to be running the country, at least that is what this feckless bunch of cnuts want you to think.

The delay in setting out the restrictions can't be made until the data says how much they can expect to relax things.
As for students starting university, they are supposed to be intelligent bright people who should be able to act sensibly, social distance and keep themselves safe.

 

[JohnC6]

The delay in setting out the restrictions can't be made until the data says how much they can expect to relax things.
As for students starting university, they are supposed to be intelligent bright people who should be able to act sensibly, social distance and keep themselves safe.

Reference the students it's not really the case that they have the choice to act sensibly, social distance and keep themselves to themselves even if they wanted to. I took this from 'whatuni.com'


Uni accommodation tends to include everything you need; a fully furnished bedroom (which can be en-suite) as well as shared kitchen and (in some cases) bathroom facilities. Each student flat usually contains around 6-8 bedrooms so you'll be sharing the kitchen and bathroom facilities with about 5-7 flatmates, who are also students at your uni.

 

[JohnC6]

Not strictly true - they could re-natoinalise the railways which I think would be a good thing. Just look at the great German train system!

They have more than enough to cope with at the moment.

I'm not on a' getting at Neil' evening...lol..but your reply to Simon doesn't shed any light on whether you think the government would be likely or not to re-nationalise the railways. I think they still have the East Coast line back under their oversight from 2018 as it was so poorly run You just sate why it can't be done now.

I lived in Germany for three years and, as Simon says, the railways are great. I recall standing on a platform at Frankfurt-am Main station and the train I was to get on was due to arrive at 11.49. being aware of their adherence to punctuality I watched the station clock..a very large one and as the finger jumped forward to 1148 the train rounded the bend into the station. and came to a stop at..1149. It departed on time too . It was, at first, strange hearing the announcement..it sounded so harsh. "Achtung, Achtung, Gleis zwei (platform two) Der Zug farht ab..the train is departing...(so,basically..stand back) and arrived at my destination at Mainz right on time.My keyboard won't give me an umlaut over the 'a' in farht but there is one.

Btw. Before anyone says that Gleis is 'track' which is correct the word is used for platform too. Platform is Bahnsteig. I loved the language for it's structure. Bahn /Eisenbahn..train. Steig..from the verb 'steigen'..to climb..so you are on the platform and climb onto the train. Trains in Germany are, generally, cheaper but here if you travel off-peak and make a return journey it's cheaper.

 

[jakeblu]

Never mind the German trains, what about the Japanese. Didn’t a train company in Japan have to apologise because the train left 20sec early. Now that’s what i call an efficient train service.

Apology after Japanese train departs 20 seconds early

Management on the Tsukuba Express line "sincerely apologised for the inconvenience" caused.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[cambsno]

I'm not on a' getting at Neil' evening...lol..but your reply to Simon doesn't shed any light on whether you think the government would be likely or not to re-nationalise the railways. I think they still have the East Coast line back under their oversight from 2018 as it was so poorly run You just sate why it can't be done now. [emoji4]

I lived in Germany for three years and, as Simon says, the railways are great. I recall standing on a platform at Frankfurt-am Main station and the train I was to get on was due to arrive at 11.49. being aware of their adherence to punctuality I watched the station clock..a very large one and as the finger jumped forward to 1148 the train rounded the bend into the station. and came to a stop at..1149. It departed on time too . It was, at first, strange hearing the announcement..it sounded so harsh. "Achtung, Achtung, Gleis zwei (platform two) Der Zug farht ab..the train is departing...(so,basically..stand back) and arrived at my destination at Mainz right on time.My keyboard won't give me an umlaut over the 'a' in farht but there is one.

Btw. Before anyone says that Gleis is 'track' which is correct the word is used for platform too. Platform is Bahnsteig. I loved the language for it's structure. Bahn /Eisenbahn..train. Steig..from the verb 'steigen'..to climb..so you are on the platform and climb onto the train. [emoji4]Trains in Germany are, generally, cheaper but here if you travel off-peak and make a return journey it's cheaper.

Similar experience a few times in cologne. Super efficient.

 

[simon ess]

Simian experience a few times in cologne.

I had a simian experience in the Congo, but never in Cologne.

 

[nilagin]

Reference the students it's not really the case that they have the choice to act sensibly, social distance and keep themselves to themselves even if they wanted to. I took this from 'whatuni.com'


Uni accommodation tends to include everything you need; a fully furnished bedroom (which can be en-suite) as well as shared kitchen and (in some cases) bathroom facilities. Each student flat usually contains around 6-8 bedrooms so you'll be sharing the kitchen and bathroom facilities with about 5-7 flatmates, who are also students at your uni.

No different to a workplace then. If employees in the workplace can manage it, so can students at university.

 

[Box Brownie]

Simian experience a few times in cologne. Super efficient.

I had a simian experience in the Congo, but never in Cologne.

Good old Simians........... clearly the Japanese have the "Old Man of the Forest" working on the problem, in the UK it is more like the Chimps Tea Party

 

[cambsno]

I had a simian experience in the Congo, but never in Cologne.

Bloody fat thumbs!

 

[cambsno]

No different to a workplace then. If employees in the workplace can manage it, so can students at university.

Not really. Do you really expect them to go home after lectures and sit in a room on their own?

 

[nilagin]

I'm not on a' getting at Neil' evening...lol..but your reply to Simon doesn't shed any light on whether you think the government would be likely or not to re-nationalise the railways.

I am not bothered if it is re-nationalised or not. I don't use it and have no interest in it. Last train I went on was Eurostar about 17yrs ago to Euro Disney. Prior to that, I hadn't been on a train since the 1980's.

 

[nilagin]

Not really. Do you really expect them to go home after lectures and sit in a room on their own?

With the current situation, why not?

 

[ancient_mariner]

I lived in Germany for three years and, as Simon says, the railways are great. I recall standing on a platform at Frankfurt-am Main station and the train I was to get on was due to arrive at 11.49. being aware of their adherence to punctuality I watched the station clock..a very large one and as the finger jumped forward to 1148 the train rounded the bend into the station. and came to a stop at..1149. It departed on time too

I've been to Germany a couple of times over the last 15 years, and TBH the trains have generally been late. I suspect there's been some changes over there in the 21st century.

 

[JohnC6]

No different to a workplace then. If employees in the workplace can manage it, so can students at university.

No different to a workplace then. If employees in the workplace can manage it, so can students at university.

Can't agree withy that.I think it is very different to a workplace. I can't know the ins and outs of various workplaces but generally employees won't face the problems that students do and I'm pretty sure employees won't be expected to take on cleaning duties whereas students are..at least during this pandemic.

This is dated June this year. As I say,employees don't face these difficulties.

Shared bathrooms present one of the biggest risks for increased spread of the virus. Where communal toilets are available outside of households, providers should implement measures to decrease this risk as far as possible. This should include increased cleaning, and may include reducing access to a one in, one out basis. Cleaning materials should also be provided for users to ‘clean as they go’

Here's how to survive shared living

From splitting bills with housemates and setting up cleaning rotas to communal cooking and washing up.

www.savethestudent.org

The intro...Flying the nest for university? Living in halls or a shared house can be a minefield. You're about to enter a whole new world that requires a lot of patience and an open mind...

The reality of sharing a kitchen and bathroom with complete strangers for an entire year can be a lot to take in. How do you split the cleaning in a shared house? Who pays for the toilet paper? Will you like everyone? Will they like you?

The current reality: This is dated June this year. As I say,employees don't face these difficulties.

Coronavirus: Nottingham students 'question logic' of university return

Self-isolating students at the University of Nottingham say managers "don't care" about them.

www.bbc.co.uk

Section of copy/paste from it:

Students at a university where more than 400 people have tested positive for Covid-19 have accused bosses of failing to prepare properly for their arrival.
The University of Nottingham said there had been at least 425 confirmed cases among its student population.

Students instructed to self-isolate in their accommodation have cited poor care and a lack of communication.

Re the father of an self-isolating first year student at the University: My bold text.

"I found out my daughter didn't have her breakfast delivered, and she didn't have her lunch delivered, and by six in the evening she still hadn't had her dinner. By the time they got to her, it was cold. She was starving.That was the only meal that she got all day, and it was delivered by an apologetic security guy.
"The key thing I think is ridiculous is that this was predictable. The uni have had the whole summer to prepare for this, and they don't appear to have done so.
"They spent the whole summer telling students they'd have as similar to a normal experience as possible, but I think they just didn't want them to defer."

 

[nilagin]

Can't agree withy that.I think it is very different to a workplace. I can't know the ins and outs of various workplaces but generally employees won't face the problems that students do and I'm pretty sure employees won't be expected to take on cleaning duties whereas students are..at least during this pandemic.

As much as we have a team of cleaners permanently cleaning all touch points in the corridors at work, we have numerous hand sanitiser stations, sanitizing wipes and cleaning sprays so we can keep our work stations clean and wipe down everything we use and is likely to be shared.

The gym I go to is exactly same, everyone is asked to wipe down all equipment before and after use and everyone does it.

The students can quite easily do the same and universities should be supplying the stuff, just like employers, shops and gyms do.

 

[JohnC6]

I've been to Germany a couple of times over the last 15 years, and TBH the trains have generally been late. I suspect there's been some changes over there in the 21st century.

That's very disappointing to hear. To be honest with you, when I spoke to Germans on our holiday in September 2018 (Lake Garda.. I .can highly recommend it..absolutely wonderful) I related my experiences. I didn't mention the trains,though.. and just as you've basically said, they said "Its not like that anymore " It was said in a disappointing tone too. They were in their 70's.I was there '73-76. I fitted in well..not least because I learnt to speak, read and write the language at a good level.. (helped having a German girlfriend who didn't speak english..lol) but because of my 'in order' mentality. I like living in a society governed by rules and regs..it makes for a well-ordered society. There was a footbridge I went over each day..over the river Main (Frankfurt) and there was a sign at each end. Translated ...'No cycling'. The only person I ever saw cycle over it was a Brit..from Castleford, West Yorkshire. One day a German man told him ..shouted at him, to get off the bike..to no avail. Not only did the trains run punctually but the trams.I recall being on a tram into the city centre one day and two youngsters..about 12/13 years old, got on and put their feet on the seat opposite. Wow. They got a mouthful from a male passenger who got off his seat and went to them..have you ever a German being angry..? lol.. and off came their feet and not a word from them. I can't imagine they'd ever do that again. At work each morning the chief technician and his two assistants did the rounds starting at 8.00am....on the dot.

It sounds to me that I wouldn't feel the same now. My nephew's wife is German and they live with their three children in Munich. Small world.

 

[JohnC6]

As much as we have a team of cleaners permanently cleaning all touch points in the corridors at work, we have numerous hand sanitiser stations, sanitizing wipes and cleaning sprays so we can keep our work stations clean and wipe down everything we use and is likely to be shared.

The gym I go to is exactly same, everyone is asked to wipe down all equipment before and after use and everyone does it.

The students can quite easily do the same and universities should be supplying the stuff, just like employers, shops and gyms do.

Fair enough..I do take your point but from everything I've read and heard it's not been easy for students. First time away from home, lumped together with strangers..as they say in Yorkshire (not that I'm from there) 'There's nowt as queer as folk'. I don't know if the Unis supplied sanitising equipment or not. I'd have hoped so.

Maybe someone on here has a son/daughter in Uni ..I think so from what I've read..who could shed some light on this.

 

[tijuana taxi]

I have used DB quite a bit over the last few years and it's not been great.
Even the ICE has been less reliable and had compensation for cancellations.
One real fiasco having got to Brussels Midi then due to late running get told the Frankfurt ICE was departing from Brussels Nord. Trying to get there in time was no joke and then the train seat allocation indicators weren't working.

 

[ancient_mariner]

That's very disappointing to hear. To be honest with you, when I spoke to Germans on our holiday in September 2018 (Lake Garda.. I .can highly recommend it..absolutely wonderful) I related my experiences. I didn't mention the trains,though.. and just as you've basically said, they said "Its not like that anymore " It was said in a disappointing tone too. They were in their 70's.I was there '73-76. I fitted in well..not least because I learnt to speak, read and write the language at a good level.. (helped having a German girlfriend who didn't speak english..lol) but because of my 'in order' mentality. I like living in a society governed by rules and regs..it makes for a well-ordered society. There was a footbridge I went over each day..over the river Main (Frankfurt) and there was a sign at each end. Translated ...'No cycling'. The only person I ever saw cycle over it was a Brit..from Castleford, West Yorkshire. One day a German man told him ..shouted at him, to get off the bike..to no avail. Not only did the trains run punctually but the trams.I recall being on a tram into the city centre one day and two youngsters..about 12/13 years old, got on and put their feet on the seat opposite. Wow. They got a mouthful from a male passenger who got off his seat and went to them..have you ever a German being angry..? lol.. and off came their feet and not a word from them. I can't imagine they'd ever do that again. At work each morning the chief technician and his two assistants did the rounds starting at 8.00am....on the dot.

It sounds to me that I wouldn't feel the same now. My nephew's wife is German and they live with their three children in Munich. Small world.

I work with 2 Germans (curiously both called Holger, though very different) and Germany is not the neatly ordered world it appeared to be any more. Having said that, not all of it was quite so observant of the rules as all that, and one of the guys from the western side has talked about a much more relaxed and more lassez faire approach in his grandparents and parents.

 

[mex]

Fair enough..I do take your point but from everything I've read and heard it's not been easy for students. First time away from home, lumped together with strangers..as they say in Yorkshire (not that I'm from there) 'There's nowt as queer as folk'. I don't know if the Unis supplied sanitising equipment or not. I'd have hoped so.

Maybe someone on here has a son/daughter in Uni ..I think so from what I've read..who could shed some light on this.

Both Manchester and Hull Uni's have hand santiser stations in the hallways and are regularly cleaned.

 

[cambsno]

I work with 2 Germans (curiously both called Holger, though very different) and Germany is not the neatly ordered world it appeared to be any more. Having said that, not all of it was quite so observant of the rules as all that, and one of the guys from the western side has talked about a much more relaxed and more lassez faire approach in his grandparents and parents.

A German colleague said similar. She knew a family of 70 off who met up a while back. She also said the track and trace has its faults and people will meet up at Xmas even if not allowed.