Is biggest always best?

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peely

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Andy
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Hi All, I'm looking to add an octa to my existing modifiers. Would there be any reason not to get the biggest one I could find.... apart from increase storage space?
I can't justify the costs of Elinchrom's prices and was thinking of getting a 213cm version by Walimex
http://www.amazon.co.uk/walimex-Ø21...?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1357416183&sr=1-22

Also I've never used a grid on a softbox before, do you think they are a must have? The above link comes with one or you can have it without for around £40 less.

many thanks
Andy
 
how soft do you want/ need the light is more the question as you can vary distance from subject and achieve the same lighting with smaller modifiers too

honeycomb grids are basically to reduce spill light and have it specifically on a certain area....
 
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Softboxes can easily be too big.

The primary function of a softbox is to create soft light. To do this, it needs to be either very big or to be big relative to the size of the subject, what a lot of people (wrongly) do is to get a big one and put it a long way away from the subject, to make their lives easier - in effect, it then becomes much smaller.

What I'm saying here is that a medium or small softbox can often produce soft light, it just needs to be very close.

If it is very large, you need to consider its height. My personal normal starting point is to get the softbox high, and, with many subjects, directly in front. If the ceiling height doesn't allow this, you won't get this type of lighting effect

Honeycombs...
Very useful for two distinct and separate purposes:
When used as a backlight or a rimlight, to prevent both flare and the spread of unwanted light. But, when not needed, they should not be used.
Problem is, many (most) softbox honeycombs are so cheaply made and so badly designed that they are useless. Most are less than half the depth they need to be and are far too widely spaced, they actually achieve nothing. This applies to most of the cheap makes.
 
Thanks Terry and Garry, very good points, that make me question my initial thinking! At the minute I have standard small soft boxes 2x 60x60's, 1 70x70 and a strip bank 130x50 so nothing really big and I keep hearing how lovely and flattering the light is off a big octa. I guess I was thinking a very large octa like this would be able to wrap the light around a full portrait. But maybe I don't need anything that big and I could achieve from what you are saying with what I already have?.... Also I was thinking I'd also be able to use this as an illuminated backdrop, as at over 2m tall I should be able to do full portraits in front of it. I admit I might have to do a little bit in post around the edges, to get a full white background everywhere. I am fortunate that I do have very high ceilings around 20 ft. Hmmmmm decisions!
 
And Garry from what you said about grids, would you ever realistically expect to use a honeycomb on such a large softbox? If you wanted a more directional feel wouldn't I be best off using a grid on one of my smaller ones?
I suspect from what you said about the badly designed ones that this 'cheaper' version falls in to this category but suspect you are too much of a gentleman to cast such accusations!!
thanks again
 
there was a review on here recently (il try and find it) about someone using 3 seperate small light sources and diffusers, one either side of the subject and one almost in a birdseye position....

once you've got light all you need to do is direct it..... remember the further away you are the less illumination on the subject you get.... also consider where your lighting is coming from and consider what 'fill in' light if any and what ambient light if any you have too....
 
I suspect from what you said about the badly designed ones that this 'cheaper' version falls in to this category but suspect you are too much of a gentleman to cast such accusations!!
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Garry knows his lighting!!! you only have to read one of many of his responses to know that he really knows his lighting arrangements/ setup and equipment...


from my point of view its down to budget, cheaper items may not be as useable but may be good enough for some people requirements, whereas others may be more fussy about results and may want to invest a little more... but irrespective of what you spend, you need technique otherwise its the situation of 'all the gear and no idea' all over
 
I agree Terry.... I've been into photography since a young boy but only got interested in the studio side this last year. I can't believe how much there is to learn... although I must admit I'm finding the experience very enjoyable. It's like starting from scratch again, and seeing things in a completely different way.
I must admit to feeling slightly honoured that Garry should answer one of my questions! I've read lots and lots of his posts and watched his videos. Thanks Garry for all the help and advise you have given all us newbies
 
Those whoppers are good for impressing clients ;)

Big lights like that tend to be a bit specialist and hard to use well. I also suspect they need reverse-firing into the back (like the big Elinchroms) to fill evenly. In a normal studio it's hard to get them far off the deck for lack of height, and then you need a serious rig to get them up high for a simulated sky light.

But of course they can do things that a smaller lights can't, for big subjects like cars etc, getting nice even specula reflections, or maybe moving them back and still getting plenty soft light, but with much reduced inverse square law fall-off. That kind of thing, but less everyday for most of us.

Area increases by the square, so 140cm is twice the size of 100cm, and 200cm is double again - massive thing. I've always fancied an Elinchrom 135 octa but hard to justify and there's usually a workaround. For some Xmas family groups I just put two rectangular softboxes side by side to make one big 'un.
 
More sound advice.... and shows why I still have a lot to learn. I think by the sounds of my original question.... is biggest always best?..... er no! More research me thinks
 
I have a couple of 78"x54" at the studio. When I need them, they're irreplaceable. Do I use them often? No where near as often as you might think.
On location, a folding 120cm Octa is my absolute "go to" modifier. Incredibly useful, as is a folding 70 x 100cm softbox.

To get the most out of the really big stuff, you need the right environment, and more importantly, the right subject.
I wouldn't be without mine, but if I had to give up any, I'm afraid you'd have to pry the 120cm folding octa out of my cold dead hands!
 
Thank you Michael.... a great insight again from someone who knows their stuff. I suppose my thinking was my current boxes are a tad on the small side and just thought to go BIG! but even a 120 is over 3 times the area of my current setup. I guess there is a reason why that size is more popular!
 
To be honest, there is very, very little I can't do with a 120cm Octa.
Oddly enough, the times I've decided to not use it on location have been down to available space. Basically, the 120cm has been too large, and I've ended up with either the 70 x 100cm and a 60 x 60cm. Sometimes they've still been bigger than the space allows, and I've switched to speedlights.

Mind you, I did manage to use the 120cm Oct and the 70 x 100cm box in an area 5 feet by 5 feet, including a model.

Tight would be an understatement!
 
Wow! That 213cm monster would certainly impress the punters but the ceiling in my studio is too low to get it far off the floor. I have a 95cm octabox but have just ordered a 120cm (which I wish that I had bought in the first place). These Bessell ones are well made & amazingly good value http://stores.ebay.co.uk/bessel-studio-lighting/_i.html?_nkw=octabox&submit=Search&_sid=853016419
My 95cm octabox is large to move about so I cannot imagine how awkward that enormous one would be.
 
peely said:
And Garry from what you said about grids, would you ever realistically expect to use a honeycomb on such a large softbox? If you wanted a more directional feel wouldn't I be best off using a grid on one of my smaller ones?
I suspect from what you said about the badly designed ones that this 'cheaper' version falls in to this category but suspect you are too much of a gentleman to cast such accusations!!
thanks again
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I've often used honeycombs on even my 150cm octa - it's related to the position of the softbox, not its size.

The point I was trying to make is that there is no point in having a honeycomb unless it actually works, and most of the cheap ones don't. I was in Michael Sewell's studio last week, he has some softboxes of a cheap make that are often recommended on here, the honeycombs fitted to those are in fact totally useless. The softboxes themselves are more or less OK (although the thin wall material spills light out of the back).

Regardless of the amount of equipment we have, all of us sometimes need to bodge, and there are always ways of getting the right results with the wrong equipment, although it's always easier to do that well if we have a lot of experience - but I'm just pointing out that there is always a reason why the cheap stuff is cheap, and sometimes it just doesn't work at all.
 
Garry Edwards said:
I was in Michael Sewell's studio last week, he has some softboxes of a cheap make that are often recommended on here, the honeycombs fitted to those are in fact totally useless. The softboxes themselves are more or less OK (although the thin wall material spills light out of the back).
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:gag:

All true I'm afraid.

I've mentioned the above on here several times previously. In fact, I don't bother taking the grids off these boxes, because they don't impede the light in anyway. Testimony as to how ineffectual they are!
They're going as soon as I get enough time to order replacements and advertise these.

Garry, wanna swap? :nuts:
 
Michael Sewell said:
:gag:

All true I'm afraid.

I've mentioned the above on here several times previously. In fact, I don't bother taking the grids off these boxes, because they don't impede the light in anyway. Testimony as to how ineffectual they are!
They're going as soon as I get enough time to order replacements and advertise these.

Garry, wanna swap? :nuts:
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You're a smart bloke Mike, but that's not the best sales pitch I've ever seen.

'Who wants to buy some crap softboxes'
 
Phil V said:
You're a smart bloke Mike, but that's not the best sales pitch I've ever seen.

'Who wants to buy some crap softboxes'
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Why, do you really think someone won't pay £25 for these?

I'd expect them to go, TBH
 
Phil V said:
Oh they'll go - maybe I missed a smiley.
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Nah, my fault.

Whilst I stated "advertise", they'll probably go on the board at the studio. They'll likely go to one of the togs that's already used them.
The main reason for the original purchase was down to the fact they are the only 2m stripboxes I could find. As soon as I can find better, they'll go.

Want one? eh, nudge, nudge :geek:

Disclaimer: This is not a post to solicit offers to purchase. Nor is it an underhand sales post.

:rules:
 
It's never easy is it! I do have a Bessel beauty light, and although I have nothing to compare it to, I've been very happy with it, it's produced some lovely images. But as regards to softboxes I've only used Elinchrom so far, both Rotalux and Prolinca..... Maybe I'm best to try and see the difference in quality when I go to the SWPP convention next week
 
Garry, Michael are Lencarta going to the SWPP next week?
 
peely said:
Garry, Michael are Lencarta going to the SWPP next week?
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No, sorry. :'(

Nothing beats hands on evaluation prior to purchase, especially as boxes can run to a fair bit of money.

Let us know how you get on. :thumbs:
 
Yes it would be good to see all variations in the flesh.... I think I best only take the one credit card though!
 
Michael Sewell said:
Nah, my fault.

Whilst I stated "advertise", they'll probably go on the board at the studio. They'll likely go to one of the togs that's already used them.
The main reason for the original purchase was down to the fact they are the only 2m stripboxes I could find. As soon as I can find better, they'll go.

Want one? eh, nudge, nudge :geek:

Disclaimer: This is not a post to solicit offers to purchase. Nor is it an underhand sales post.

:rules:
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To be honest, it crossed my mind, but I've yet to have enough S fit gear to make one useful to me. I do have loads of crap gear that they'd fit alongside - but I'll be working my way out of that as funds allow.
 
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