Influx of Professional Photographers to come?

gman

gman

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A discussion in another thread got me thinking about this.

I'm sure I remember that after the big financial crash back in 2007/8 the photography market was flooded with "professional" photographers, in particular with wedding photography. There were even people offering to do wedding photography for a few hundred pounds. I can only make the assumption that many of those who unfortunately lost their jobs grabbed their digital camera and suddenly became "pro", so to speak.

There seems to be a steady stream of announcements regarding job cuts due to the pandemic, so could this happen again and will it be substantial enough to harm the current genuine professionals, who I assume are having a pretty hard time at the moment and could do without this when things ease off?

It's all speculation of course, but is anyone else thinking about this?
 
Maybe, but I don't believe they will all be "bottom rung" Redundancy can often be the "push" some people need to follow their dream job.
 
I daresay this could happen, but won't a major increase in redundancies depress the 'client' market too?
 
Good points, but if the client market does become depressed then will this not make it even worse for current pros if more people follow their dream job post redundancy, as well as the other ones, and a shrunk market becomes saturated?

I'm wondering what steps current photographers could take to protect themselves from this potential situation?

Whilst my initial thoughts may be along the lines that if people still want guaranteed quality then the established pros will be fine, but if money has become tight and the wedding costs have to be slashed, will the photographer be at the front of the firing line?
 
gman said:
Whilst my initial thoughts may be along the lines that if people still want guaranteed quality then the established pros will be fine, but if money has become tight and the wedding costs have to be slashed, will the photographer be at the front of the firing line?
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Probably for some weddings, depends on the couple's priorities. There's also going to be some wedding photographers out of business next year for various reasons. Swings and roundabouts.
 
It's not necessarily the tog which is first on the firing line but the need to find a new photographer as so many weddings are having to be re-planned and the available date for next year might already be pre-booked. Some couples might want to get married regardless as soon as possible and will settle for a smaller registry office and a socially distanced outdoor pub meal with immediate family where spending 2k on a wedding photographer might not be appropriate, others might have to delay further if they want to be able to accommodate their 200+ guest list.

Until we know what's going to happen with venues it's a bit difficult to judge. Then again with lockdown and close living conditions how many of these weddings will be called off completely?
 
MartynK said:
I daresay this could happen, but won't a major increase in redundancies depress the 'client' market too?
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good point - I think though that the most visible and easiest route into professional photography is through weddings, which tend to be fairly recession proof
 
I have got a new phone, I could do Pro pics now :-)
 
Mr Bump said:
I have got a new phone, I could do Pro pics now :)
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Lol although my wife's uncle did a video of the family using some compact camera gizmo (I forget the name) which plugged into his iPhone, which is used as a big viewfinder. The quality was fantastic and ultra smooth steadiness. You could easily use it to film a wedding, although I'm not sure what low light performance is like.
 
I look back at my wedding album and call it the "nightmare Book", maybe established togs could put "since ****" on their ads/literature? my daughter is the manager of a venue and I believe they have recommended guys that are suggested to the clients, Johnny come lately are unlikely to feature there.
 
Something I've seen more times than I would like is people undervaluing wedding photography, that is of course until afterwards when they receive whatever crap has been produced and wished they had spent more than £300.
 
mj4456 said:
I look back at my wedding album and call it the "nightmare Book", maybe established togs could put "since ****" on their ads/literature? my daughter is the manager of a venue and I believe they have recommended guys that are suggested to the clients, Johnny come lately are unlikely to feature there.
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Some of the worst photographers on the market are those who've been trading longest and not kept up with the times, colour pop galore. So not sure it'd help.
 
boyfalldown said:
good point - I think though that the most visible and easiest route into professional photography is through weddings, which tend to be fairly recession proof
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Aye for sure, it's definitely a constant. But I'm wondering just how valuable people view the photography part of it when budgets have to be chopped?

Will the seasoned professionals be prepared to drop their fees if necessary or will the relatively new guy/girl who can produce decent enough photos at a quarter of the price not be a threat?

I appreciate it's all speculation, but times are certainly going to change I reckon.
 
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I always said, when it was apparent I knew what I was doing with a cam, that I would never want to let commercial considerations take away my love for photography, and as such, I have never pursued a 'career' in it, preferring instead to work for 'free'/small fees now and then. But this is a position of privilege, I accept that. A lot of commercial photography is more the job of a 'technician'; rather than an 'artist', for me. I spose wedding photography is a bit creative. Having shot one wedding 'professionally', and a couple just cos I'm a 'friend with a good cam', I have to say I'd absolutely HATE it as a job. So I actually really do respect those who have chosen to make it their main profession. And I really do feel for those who have been badly affected by the current situation.

As for the possible 'influx' of 'professional photographers'; well, nobody has ownership and exclusive rights to such work. More than most jobs, photography is subject to the demands and quirks of Capitalism. It depends on a market being in place, and demand for the service. So, more than most other jobs, subject to downs as well as ups. Those who choose to do it, have to understand the potential pitfalls as well as the potential benefits. Whilst we can't have expected something like CV19 to happen, it's always good to have contingency plans. Hopefully those who've 'survived' this, economically, will think about this. Perhaps it will have an impact on the market for camera gear; if we all hold onto stuff for a bit longer, and don't 'upgrade' quite so often, prices for new and used gear might come down, so maybe that will be an unexpected positive. Every cloud and that. Who knows.

As for 'quality'; who knows what could happen. Definitely potential for some new ideas, if there's going to be more competition for work. If any existing pros are worried abut the new upstarts stealing 'their' jobs, maybe it's time they upped their game.
 
gman said:
Aye for sure, it's definitely a constant. But I'm wondering just how valuable people view the photography part of it when budgets have to be chopped?

Will the seasoned professionals be prepared to drop their fees if necessary or will the relatively new guy/girl who can produce decent enough photos at a quarter of the price not be a threat?

I appreciate it's all speculation, but times are certainly going to change I reckon.
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I guess like now there will be some who don’t value photography and some who regard it as very important.

I guess we may see the cheapest even cheaper and the most expensive reduced in price
 
I was one of those who was made redundant in 2008 although it had nothing to do with the crash, just a s***ty employer who used it as an excuse but that's a whole other story.

I had a half decent camera so I used it to make some cash. Did I call myself a "professional"? Damned straight i did. If you tell a client that you're an amateur, they're happy to pay your expenses and give you some food. If you tell them you're a professional, you get a proper daily rate. That's why I was able to charge £600 a day and I think I was pretty cheap.

I should add that my clients were corporates, I only did 1 wedding.
 
gman said:
There were even people offering to do wedding photography for a few hundred pounds
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I've seen a few facebook ads for wedding photography for £650, this includes photo and video with 2 togs.
 
keef32 said:
I've seen a few facebook ads for wedding photography for £650, this includes photo and video with 2 togs.
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I once had a colleague whose oft repeated mantra was: "price is an indicator of quality". He charged very high prices for his work and went bust. Go figure... :naughty:
 
Marc said:
I was one of those who was made redundant in 2008 although it had nothing to do with the crash, just a s***ty employer who used it as an excuse but that's a whole other story.

I had a half decent camera so I used it to make some cash. Did I call myself a "professional"? Damned straight i did. If you tell a client that you're an amateur, they're happy to pay your expenses and give you some food. If you tell them you're a professional, you get a proper daily rate. That's why I was able to charge £600 a day and I think I was pretty cheap.

I should add that my clients were corporates, I only did 1 wedding.
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I'm very interested in hearing what others think about doing work professionally. As I stated above; I never wanted to 'compromise' my photography by doing it for money, but that's not to say I wouldn't (or haven't, because I have) take photos for money. For me, it's always been 'if people want to pay me for MY photos, that's ok, but I won't take THEIR photos'. If that makes sense. Might seem arrogant, I dunno. But for me; to do 'professional photography', is a bit like fitting people's kitchens rather than making a piece of furniture for myself; I'd only ever want to do a proper, quality job of course, but ultimately, I wouldn't care about the end results. When I first fell in love with photography, I always told myself that I could only do what I genuinely cared about, otherwise it would become meaningless. I do accept that this is a very privileged viewpoint, in some sense. But that's always been my own way of getting through life, and I'm glad I've kept to that mantra.

"That's why I was able to charge £600 a day and I think I was pretty cheap."

I knew of people doing corporate work just before the big crash, charging thousands of pounds a day, so yes, you were pretty cheap! I saw people who'd become complacent, earning really good money doing stuff like Graphic Design, really quite easy stuff imo, suddenly having to find new jobs and careers as the bottom totally fell out. I dabbled in a bit of GD myself, again offering my services for a lot less than most folk, and earned a few quid, but by then it was a mug's game; spent more time chasing work than I did doing any.

Ultimately, I think it's just yet another economic phase. s*** happens, deal with it and move on. It's tough for the individual, but such is the modern world. No job or profession is immune to the ravages of economic storms. Always have a contingency plan...
 
Marc said:
To be fair, i think that's why they used me. Cuts needed to be made. If I'd tried to charge thousands, I wouldn't have got the gig.
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Which leads into Andrew Flannigan's post:

AndrewFlannigan said:
I once had a colleague whose oft repeated mantra was: "price is an indicator of quality". He charged very high prices for his work and went bust. Go figure... :naughty:
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One of the issues with photography is always about how images are 'valued', in a commercial sense. The NUJ has some guidelines as to pricing per use, but it's still very much down to how much someone is willing to pay. A relatively small percentage of the total costs of a wedding which costs thousands, is quite different to a small local free publication that relies on the generosity of contributors. But the fact is, that as photography has become far more accessible, so the value of the photographer and their work has fallen. Surely this means that in order to 'succeed', you need a USP, now more than ever.
 
Lockdown has given me plenty of time to think and give strong consideration to starting up again. I haven't shot a wedding since late 2017, though and I can't fully commit to going back to it for some reason. I have been very fortunate that I have still been working during the pandemic and had I gone full time when I was shooting weddings, would have had no income for the last few months.

I genuinely think that doing the thing you love all the time is a fabulous way to earn money, however I know some compromises need to be made when shooting for clients that may be outside of your normal artistic vision....however it's also OK to say no to some things. I have turned down requests from couple for certain shots, sometimes at the consultation but it has never lost me work.

Even this evening, I am having the conversation again about going back to it as surely, no matter my reservations or personal hang ups and criticisms of my own photography, it HAS to be better than doing what I am doing now for the next 28 years until retirement.
 
gazmorton2000 said:
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I genuinely think that doing the thing you love all the time is a fabulous way to earn money,

Snip
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I personally believe that this is such an important point and must do wonders for mental wellbeing.

It must be awful for people who hate their job but can't get out of it, even if it pays handsomely. Work is such a huge chunk of your life and it quickly passes by.

I would love to change my career for one of my passions, although I'm not sure if they would become less appealing if it were a daily task. Unfortunately, I bear the brunt of financial commitments at home but I was able to help my wife change her career to something far healthier and I can see the psychological results.
 
I protect myself from new photogrpahers who I have seen come and go many times over the years.. I do photogrpahy that eaither requires a licence... requires the best equipment that may be beyong most people or I am the only person allowed to take the pics.....That keeps me pretty bullet proof :)
 
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