Indoor Karting - stuck for the right lens

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Hi all,

I recently sold my Canon 55-250 lens hoping to raise a bit of cash and pick up a bargain early next year. Well, that was the idea.

I've been invited to photograph at a indoor karting event where all proceeds will go to charity - a few problems:

1. I'm reasonably used to motorsport but never done karts - I understand them to be pretty rapid and much more unpredictable than cars
2. I now only have a 50mm prime and 300mm prime with a rather large gap inbetween. The 300mm might be ok for long shots but with only F4 max aperature, may be a little slow depending on how dark the place is
3. As said, assuming the track will be reasonably dark my 50 would do much better but with barely any focal length at all.

First off, has anyone done any indoor karting photography and secondly, what lens would people go for.

I haven't really got the funds at the moment to buy something new, but hiring for the day would probably be very cost effective so in that sense I could probably have anything - not limited by outright value really.

I'd be pleased to hear anyone's thoughts :)

Andrew
 
my local circuit is quite dark in places so i would suggest the 50mm to start with, Karts are quick but usually follow a stright forwards line so work that out first and then understand from there what you need.
 
Have you got a chance to go to the circuit and see what it would be like beforehand?

My gut feeling is that 50mm would be OK, especially on full frame, you can crop...
 
How about visiting the track during a practice session to get an idea of light levels and to see what sort of focal length you might want/need? You may find that you can get away with your 50mm and if the light's low, you'll be glad of a sub f/2 aperture! It'll be a good chance to practice your panning technique as well!!!
 
In an ideal world I would visit in advance but the event is this sunday and its an 40 mile each way trip so not really practical.

Cropping would be ok I suppose - so long as I don't have to remove too much....
 
Andrew, a little while ago I wrote a thread here entitled "How big a lens do I need?", which might help.

The basic equation is:
Focal Length = 0.75 x Sensor Size x Subject Distance / Subject Size
(The 0.75 is an arbitrary factor to aid composition.)

On full frame the sensor is 36mm across, and a go kart is say 2m long. So, very roughly:
  • at 5m distance you'll want f=70mm
  • at 10m distance you'll want f=135mm
  • at 15m distance you'll want f=200mm
(Of course, you can always use a shorter lens at a longer distance and crop as appropriate. But you can't use a longer lens at a shorter distance. For example with a 135mm you really can't photograph them much closer than about 10m.)

Sounds like a 70-200mm zoom would do the job, except you might want something faster than f/2.8. So perhaps you should be looking for a fast prime in this range: 85mm f/1.2L, 85mm f/1.8, 100mm f/2, 135mm f/2, 200mm f/1.8L, 200mm f/2L IS.....
 
Lets seperate this problem out into its component parts:

1) Lack of light for focus - you are going to need f2.8 or better glass

2) Lack of light for imaging - you are going to need high ISO to keep the shutter speeds up because you can't be using wide apertures unless you want to loose half the cart

Or use flash...

I'd also avoid the very specialist wider than f2.8 primes as without knowledge of the circuit you could find there is nothing that works. An indoor cart circuit is unlikely to have 2000m long straights like a proper race circuit. Its going to be jammed into some warehouse with lots of short twisty turns. The 70-200 2.8 is probably what I would choose (given infinite choice), only a FF this comes up pretty short anyway (yes, I know 70-200mm short but in this day and age we all mainly talk in terms of crop sensors)
 
i would look at the 200 f1.8 or 135 fixed primes to hire from stewart(or maybe both) a bit of a recon mission first would help though as you can see how close you could get.
 
kartinghw9.jpg




I was at the end of the longish straight when I took this but I could've got the same shot with a 50mm by moving closer.


Exif from raw file

Standard Information
Make: Canon
Model: Canon EOS-1D Mark III
ImageSize: 1936x1288
ComponentsConfiguration: YCbCr
CameraType: EOS High-end
CreateDate: 2008:10:25 16:03:53
ModifyDate: 2008:10:25 16:03:53
DateTimeOriginal: 2008:10:25 16:03:53
ExposureTime: 1/500"
Aperture: F2.8
MaxAperture: F2.8
CircleOfConfusion: 0.012 mm
HyperfocalDistance: 1224.31 m
ExposureProgram: Shutter speed priority AE
ExposureBiasValue: 0
MeteringMode: Center-weighted averaging
Flash: No Flash
ISO: 6400
WhiteBalance: Auto
FocalLength: 200.0 mm
FocalLength35efl: 200.0 mm (35 mm equivalent: 515.0 mm)
ColorSpace: sRGB
NoiseReduction: Off
Contrast: Normal
Saturation: Normal
Sharpness: 3
ShutterCount: 4511
LensSpec: EF70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

I had a go at this recently and the light was the main problem. If it is a private function I would ask if you could get access to the track and stand inside the tyres or saftey barriers on the track beside the marshals. This would allow good use of your 50mm.

I had a quick scan through the dozen or so I took and the average focal length was 105mm but this could vary from track to track.

Most karting locations I have visited are very dark so unless it's very modern your location could be the same.

I would give them a bell re trackside and lighting.

Enjoy your night! :thumbs:


karting2od1.jpg



EDIT;

I have added this, straight conversiom from the raw file with a resize.
The 1st image has had auto levels done in CS3 and might give the impression it was lighter than it actually was.
 
Blimey ISO6400!

Remember of course the closer you are to a moving subject (ie using a shorter lens), the harder it will be to get a good shot (parallax effect), best off going longer if you can...

Plus of course a 70-200 is a proper fast focusing lens (well, if its made by Canon or Nikon anyway), the lovely wide aperture primes probably are not for motorsport!
 
Thanks all - particularly for the handy example shots with EXIF - most useful.

I emailed Stewart last night asking after the 85mm 1.8 prime but unfortunately its out of stock this weekend.

Having had another look though, what about this - http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/canon-ef-135mm-f2-l-usm-9-p.asp

Thinking it though though, the 85 might have been a bit close to my 50 to be much use. The 135 should give enough length to get out of trouble if I can't get close to the drivers (adults rather than children, so should look much bigger in the karts to fill the frame) and F2 is only a touch slower.

What do you think?
 
I personally think 135 on FF should be quite a safe bet, it will be a lot better for cropping than the 50 if you need longer and if you need wider you still have the 50.
 
Hmmm if you mean the "nifty fifty" don't expect to get anything in AI Servo mode... the focusing speed is somewhat glacial...

Might work fine if you go pre-focus...

But 50mm on FF is going to be very, very, closeup!
 
if I was shooting that I would stick on the sigma 50-150 f2.8
not as nice as a 70-200 L glass but I've got a much tighter budget that many
 
Just a note after looking at that EXIF data;

You really don't need a shutter as fast as 1/500. I was doing photography for some proper outdoor karting and I was using speeds such as 1/100. A slower shutter will be good for the lack of light as well.

Cheers,
Matt
 
Thanks again for the replies.

Yes, its the "nifty" I have. My plan would have been to stick the camera on a low slung tripod, prefocus and just fire away as the karters got close - not my usual style of shooting but I reckon would get the job done well enough.......

I'm going to do a little test at home tonight - I'll lay out a kart sized shape in the living room and experiment with how close I need to be for a decent shot with and without cropping. I can then make a better judgement as to whether hiring would be a better idea or not.....
 
MattF said:
Just a note after looking at that EXIF data;

You really don't need a shutter as fast as 1/500. I was doing photography for some proper outdoor karting and I was using speeds such as 1/100. A slower shutter will be good for the lack of light as well.

Cheers,
Matt
Click to expand...


I think you'll find the distance from the lens to the subject has more to do with it! :D
 
admirable said:
I think you'll find the distance from the lens to the subject has more to do with it! :D
Click to expand...
Well I was using 1/100 @ 300mm so I'm not sure if my statement still stands.

Be nice, i'm a noob :wave: :lol:
 
For the pic above I was at the side of the track, in fact I was leaning through the barrier to get the shot. The kart was probably 20-30ft away. Had the kart been 300ft away I could probably 'freeze' it with a lot slower shutter speed.

The situation gets exaggerated when the subject is passing at 90 deg to the camera, a far faster shutter speed would be required.
 
Do you really want to freeze it though?

Head on or rear shots, yes you do, but if its got any lateral movement from your shooting point, surely you want some blur to indicate motion - on the wheels or background...

Well, unless you want static carts parked on a track....
 
I would normally agree but, what the wee guy wanted was a shot of him driving the kart with his face in view. I have a panning shot of him but he is side on and cannot see his face and his reaction was 'it could be anyone' type of thing.

That was the one he picked and was chuffed to bits with. I think he's only 8 or 9 years old! There was another at 1/400 that I thought was slightly better but what do I know?
 
it could be the stig to be honest :P
I go for slower shutter speeds than that for carting but I don't know the technical side of things as well as some.
as long as he's happy with the shot...awesome.
quite impressive lack of noise at 6400...only seems to really show up in the background
 
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