Indoor Childrens Parties not going well :(

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AndreG

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I was wondering if anyone could help with a bit of advice on Childrens Birthday parties?

I took pics at a friends sons party some time ago just for practice, they came out awful. Blurred, dark, focus wrong, everything. When I saw them I came on here read lots and tried to pick up some tips. A couple of days ago I tried again. I tried to keep shutter speed to 1/125 to keep movement blur down but to do this I needed flash or using the meter thingy even at 2.8 I had to have it on ISO 3200? It was a bright day outside, we were in a village hall but one with big windows. So the pics looked very noisy with ISO 3200, so I tried flash. I read about bouncing flash on here so tried that but the flash didn't seem to be able to cope bouncing off the ceiling (which was natural wood colour) they all came out dark but putting it direct the pictures had the horrible shadows.

Now more confused than before :( Only good thing is focus was a bit better LOL.

Oh - camera was a Nikon D90 and I borrowed a Sigma 2.8 70-200 so I could keep out the way and a Nikon flash, an 800?

Thank you for any help!
 
hi and welcome you could try posting some of the the pics on here for people to look at it would help thanks iwols
 
First - Welcome!

Lots of factors that could be at play here, so let's start with the basics (which you sound like you've got a reasonable grasp of, but I'm following my own thought process here so bear with me!).

Shutter Speed
Motion blur comes from (a) either you moving the camera while the shot is being taken, or (b) the subject moving, regardless of how steady the hold the camera. To minimise this effect you want to get the shutter speed up. That much you know; how fast you need to get it depends on what is moving and how fast.

In a low light situation such as yours, you want to get the slowest speed you can get away with that will stop the blur, because this is a bit of a balancing act!

Aperture
As you've correctly noted, shooting wide open will get as much light in as possible (2.8 in your case), and help with stopping the blur, but it fights against you when it comes to getting to focus spot on. The larger the aperture, the less 'depth' of the photo will be in focus. So if you've got kids moving constantly, if shooting at f/2.8, even if you nail the focus perfectly on, say a face, at the point you press the button, there's a fair chance that the kid will have moved closer or further away, perhaps by only a few cm, but that's enough to mess up the shot. You can counter this in two ways - use AI Servo focus setting, which will try to track the movement of the kid and guess the focus to match, or more simply, use a smaller aperture (say f/4 or f/5.6).

ISO
Now you've balanced the right shutter speed (say 1/100 for argument sake, and aperture, again say f/4) you'll find in your suggested setting that there is not enough light to take any photos, or only horribly underexposed ones. This is where you can crank up the ISO, which simply acts as a light amplifier by adjusting the sensitivity of the sensor. The higher the ISO, the more the light is amplified, but the more noise you will get (basically errors introduced by the amplification process).

Flash
The alternative to cranking up the ISO to high, is to use a flash. Depending on the model of the camera, the flash will work in different ways based on the mode you have it set to. (usually as a fill flash in the shutter or aperture priority modes, or as the main illumination source in manual - still not sure myself, but the explanation works for me!).

So in your case, and assuming the flash integrates with the camera for TTL metering etc, I might try popping the camera into Manual, selecting the shutter speed appropriate to the motion of the kids, likewise the aperture, and let the camera deal with setting the flash power needed to light the scene.

Bouncing the flash would help reduce harsh shadows, but if the ceiling is high or strongly coloured, it won't be that effective. You can get a these cardboard and velcro contraptions that attach to the top of a flash gun to soften / bounce the light if needed.

That's the view from a numpty like me anyway; I'm sure someone will be along to offer better advice soon!
 
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Just to add to this

Situations like yours, where the ceiling is inappropriate to bounce flash, you can always use the walls if they are white.

Also look at products which are designed to help with bounce flash. Start off with the simple one - a piece of white card taped round the flashgun and the head pointed at 45-60 degrees.

While you might not need to go to the same level, the item the guide below shows what I mean better.

http://www.themoment2cherish.com/DIY-Bounce-Card/

But you can just use white card and elastic bands to get a similar effect, just not as sturdy or good.
 
I take indoor photos of my kids all the time, in a drk room (smallish windows one end of a long, thin lounge, and no window the other end). I use a 35mm f1.8 wide open, shutter speed of 1/100 or more and iso around 1000 (more on darker days). I take lots in burst mode, then throw away the ones where the kids have moved out of focus.

I don't like the on-board flash (too harsh), but I may experiment with my new off camera flash :-)
 
Many thanks for all the comments :)

Unfortunately I can't actually post any of the pics I took as they have a child in that can't be shown, I did think earlier that was a bit of a pain. I need to have a look at some high ISO shots up close I think to see if I'm being too fussy with the noise stuff.

Thanks for the details Furtim they are very helpful tips to have. I have just made a piece of card for the top of the flash and will try it out later.

Richard I did try to bounce it off the walls but i found someone got in the way every time LOL not a great help.

Spacester I refuse to use the on-board flash it makes everything look like it's been taken on a compact even when I get everything right! I also find my 1.8 is very soft focus so when high ISO is used to it all gets very messy very quickly with all detail lost. Maybe I'm just being too picky but pro's I see who do it seem to get it right so I know it's just me and not the equipment LOL now just got to get me up to speed.
 
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One more point to add. With experience (of doing Chirstenings and such like in large, darkish halls) if you use a flash with a bounce head and crank the iso up to 400, this will give you enough sensitivity to record background detail whilst also allowing a better exposure without harsh shadows and no background info...
 
In similar situations I've found using manual mode, 1/100, f5.6, ISO800 with +0.7/+1.0 flash compensation (although this is where I normally make adjustments) with the flash at 45 degrees and a bounce card works OK.

The flash can help to freeze the action too so motion blur is reduced even with a slower than normal shutter speed :)
 
:wave: Welcome....

I feel your pain on this...I did a similar event but based on a Christening...the hall was dark with very little window light...

I looked at using the terminology "dragging the shutter" to produce some kind viewable photos...but the most difficult thing was maintaining a nice shot in a dingy hall, to be fair is quite hard when you think about what’s normally on the walls and mostly likely could do with a lick of paint...

nice link about dragging the shutter...Click Me

Dan.
 
AndreG said:
..
Unfortunately I can't actually post any of the pics I took as they have a child in that can't be shown, I did think earlier that was a bit of a pain. ...
Click to expand...
Post a couple of pictures, blank the children's faces with black squares or something.
With the camera, the lens and the flash you've got all you need, I'll just repeat what others have mentioned ;
Create a funnel or diffuser for the flashgun and bounce it off the wall, high up and full power.
Take loads of photos, more than you think you need.
If you get yourself near the wall nobody can get between your flash and the bounce ...

Another option is to trigger one or more flashes which you've placed in cunning locations ... remotely, there are a couple of methods.
 
Sorry, why can't the child be shown?
If it's anonymous, surely it's just a random photo of a random child?
Anyway...

1/125 at 200mm, you might be getting some camera shake. Not sure if your lens has VR, but if it doesn't you'll need to up that and boost the ISO (or use rear-curtain flash). If it does have VR, you could lower the SS, although with kids running around, you might then get motion blur.

Focus wrong - If they're OOF, as opposed to motion-blurred/camera-shake. Check which focus point was active, and if shooting moving kids, use AF-servo (as it's called on Canon, not sure about Nikon) - it might've been a case you grabbed the focus, and the kids had moved by the time the shutter fired.
 
Using the onboard flash might not be the best option in the world but it seems better than blurry shots that aren't usable :/
 
Phal said:
Using the onboard flash might not be the best option in the world but it seems better than blurry shots that aren't usable :/
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Onboard flash is ok if bounced and handled properly, but the built in flash straight on is 'only better than blurred shots' if you're desperate for a record shot.

As a photographer I'd say that a portrait with ugly light is as useless as a blurred one. Neither are suitable to give to someone expecting a 'photograph'. But I suppose it's a question of standards, and the OP has set her standards and will continue to learn and practice until she can meet them (then she'll raise them again- which is what I'd expect of someone taking it seriously:thumbs:)
 
Durbs said:
Sorry, why can't the child be shown?
If it's anonymous, surely it's just a random photo of a random child?
.
Click to expand...

child protection would be my guess - our local school has one pupil who can't be in any picture posted on internet or publication , because the mother has moved down here to get away from an abusive partner
 
AndreG said:
Richard I did try to bounce it off the walls but i found someone got in the way every time LOL not a great help.

.
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if bouncing it off the wall or ceiling inst an option you can either use a difuser (which range from propper ones like stofen, to DIY efforts like the bottom cut off a plastic milk bottle ) , or use a bounce card - ie a card taped to the back of your flash and bent in so that the light bounces off it to the subject.
 
Thank you all for your tips, all being taken on board and will be tried! Big Soft Moose hit the nail on the head with the child, I'd prefer not to go into that obviously.

Phil I agree completely. I'm not experienced enough to know how to use the onboard to any effect other than to create a shot that looks like it belongs on the wall of a police wanted poster so I think we'll leave that well alone heh

Durbs, the 70-200 did have vibration reduction thingy on it, I'm not sure if I was using it correctly but that is a good question how do I know if it's focus or movement blur if its only slight movement?
 
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I took a fluke picture at a friend's daughter's party held in their house. I think the biggest obvious difference between my picture and what you're describing is the lens. Mine was taken with a 50mm f/1.8. It's that huge aperture that makes all the difference - lots of lovely light let in allows a quick shutter speed and a lower ISO.
 
although at f1.8 the plane of focus is wafer thin so not terribly well suited to moving children - the real advantage of large apperture lenses for action shots is that as the lens doesnt stop down until the shot is taken, a larger max apperture allows more light for focussing purposes, allowing better AF performance in low light
 
big soft moose said:
although at f1.8 the plane of focus is wafer thin so not terribly well suited to moving children - the real advantage of large apperture lenses for action shots is that as the lens doesnt stop down until the shot is taken, a larger max apperture allows more light for focussing purposes, allowing better AF performance in low light
Click to expand...

In my case the children were sitting around a table (so not much motion) and were sufficiently far from me that focus was fine. If they were running then that may have been a different matter!
 
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