Improving user experience of photography for amateur photographers

camerajamie

camerajamie

Suspended / Banned
Messages
24
Edit My Images
Yes
The needs for amateur photographers is very different to people who enjoy photography and as a result different cameras are targeted at this group. What are some things that the camera manufacturers could do to improve the user experience of amateur photographers
 
camerajamie said:
The needs for amateur photographers is very different to people who enjoy photography and as a result different cameras are targeted at this group. What are some things that the camera manufacturers could do to improve the user experience of amateur photographers
Click to expand...
I'm confused, do amateur photographers not enjoy photography?
 
Faldrax said:
I'm confused, do amateur photographers not enjoy photography?
Click to expand...
its been my experience that I enjoy the Amateur stuff I've done FAR more than any professional stuff I did - when i was doing it for £££ I was far too concerned with making sure the client was happy, that the art director on the shoot was happy, that things didn't over-run timewise and the thousands of other things that you have to worry about or the bottom line suffers. Amateur stuff's much more fun - you shoot what you want, when you want, for as long as you want, and if you're happy with the result, all's well with the world.
 
for the purposes of this discussion I think that amateur photographers is a pretty s***e way of pigeonholing someone - i've known amateurs that are complete happy-snappers with their phone - i've also known amateurs with a pair of EOS-1s and more glass than the first 5 floors of the Shard....

think you may need to define your terms better OP.
 
Seems a very odd question, I don't know an amateur photographer who doesn't enjoy it, otherwise why the heck do they do it?
 
TheBigYin said:
for the purposes of this discussion I think that amateur photographers is a pretty s***e way of pigeonholing someone - i've known amateurs that are complete happy-snappers with their phone - i've also known amateurs with a pair of EOS-1s and more glass than the first 5 floors of the Shard....

think you may need to define your terms better OP.
Click to expand...
Looking at this and the OP's other recent posts, if I was being uncharitable I'd suspect someone wanted a bunch of answers for their photography course homework....
 
camerajamie said:
The needs for amateur photographers is very different to people who enjoy photography and as a result different cameras are targeted at this group. What are some things that the camera manufacturers could do to improve the user experience of amateur photographers
Click to expand...

Amateurs (by etymology) LOVE whatever they're amateur at rather than just enjoying it. I'm one of (at a guess) a huge number of amateurs who enjoy what they do as a hobby. Some of my kit is professional grade and some much more basic - so was Dad's and he was an ex pro photographer.
 
Faldrax said:
I'm confused, do amateur photographers not enjoy photography?
Click to expand...
I mean everyone who takes photos enjoys photography no matter the level. For the amateur photographer (like me) its quite overwhelming using a professional camera with so much choice. I was just wondering what peoples opinions were on making improving this experience?
 
Sangoma said:
Seems a very odd question, I don't know an amateur photographer who doesn't enjoy it, otherwise why the heck do they do it?
Click to expand...
Just cause an amateur photographer enjoys photography doesnt mean that their experience couldnt be improved. I just wanted to see what people opinions were on what could be improved.
 
benc98 said:
I'm not sure amateurs (or beginners) want to be condescended to with simplified gear - in fact, it's a group that probably spend more money on better gear than most professionals. (pros spending money based on need not want)
Click to expand...
I think that a great point I (an amateur) have probably spent too much money on photography than my skill level needs.
 
camerajamie said:
I mean everyone who takes photos enjoys photography no matter the level. For the amateur photographer (like me) its quite overwhelming using a professional camera with so much choice. I was just wondering what peoples opinions were on making improving this experience?
Click to expand...
The term 'professional camera' is a marketing invention - it is the photographer who is either professional (they make their living from photography) or amateur (they don't).

There are probably more amateurs who own the most expensive cameras than professionals - because a professional has to justify the cost of their gear, while am amateur is free to buy whatever they feel like based on their disposable income.

I think your question would make a lot more sense if it used terms like 'casual' and 'enthusiast'.
 
camerajamie said:
I mean everyone who takes photos enjoys photography no matter the level. For the amateur photographer (like me) its quite overwhelming using a professional camera with so much choice. I was just wondering what peoples opinions were on making improving this experience?
Click to expand...

No, you misunderstand photography and cameras. A professional camera has an auto mode that requires no technical knowledge from the user. It offers more possibilities if the photographer wants to learn and progress, but it need be no harder to use than a point and shoot compact.
 
If you're picking a "Pro" camera as an Amateur then I'd have thought you're looking to learn how to control the camera for a result you want, not what a device has decided is right.
 
tailoring the menu systems could be interesting to improve the ux. neither my canons nor fujis do that. by this I mean unlock more of the menu options as you find you need them.
 
camerajamie said:
Does the amateur photographer want to change these settings/ do they even know what they do?
Click to expand...
If they want to understand the basics - having them easily accessible on separate dials makes it easier to adjust and see what you are doing.
TimHughes said:
tailoring the menu systems could be interesting to improve the ux. neither my canons nor fujis do that. by this I mean unlock more of the menu options as you find you need them.
Click to expand...
I think the "auto" button on the lower end Fuji's is a great example of UX for inexperienced photographers - whatever mode the camera is in, it is only one button to press to get everything back to auto so you can get the shot without worrying about settings.
 
camerajamie said:
Does the amateur photographer want to change these settings/ do they even know what they do?
Click to expand...

some do, some don't

I've been taking photo's for over 50 years off and on - I did a few years of "professional" photography - albeit only one of multiple income streams. Does that mean that I only knew how to use my camera for maybe 3 of those 50 years - and that I suddenly forgot all i knew when I was getting paid to take the photos.

Again - you need to redefine your categorisations.
 
Faldrax said:
Looking at this and the OP's other recent posts, if I was being uncharitable I'd suspect someone wanted a bunch of answers for their photography course homework....
Click to expand...

wouldn't be the first time, probably won't be the last. But hopefully if that is the case, we'll give the OP a well reasoned argument to take back to his tutor to say "your original premise was s***".
 
TheBigYin said:
wouldn't be the first time, probably won't be the last. But hopefully if that is the case, we'll give the OP a well reasoned argument to take back to his tutor to say "your original premise was s***".
Click to expand...

Exactly this.
 
I think the vaguest descriptors of photographers would be:
Casual - everyone who owns a phone or camera (ie almost everyone)
Enthusiast - people who have realised they wish to make ‘better’ pictures and so practice / research technique.
Professional - someone who has reached a sufficient level of understanding and has found a way to monetise their output.

BTW without context, many ‘enthusiasts’ produce outstanding photographs and lots of professionals produce okay work that serves a market. To the point where nowadays many ‘professionals’ are simply camera operators.

Next to your question…
 
camerajamie said:
Just cause an amateur photographer enjoys photography doesnt mean that their experience couldnt be improved. I just wanted to see what people opinions were on what could be improved.
Click to expand...
Nothing needs to be done, they will buy a camera that suits their current and possibly future needs.
Why change the choice available?
Won't change the enjoyment, people will use the features they need, and the rest won't affect them.

Many years ago, research showed that 95% of Word users use 5% or less of its features. The other features made no difference to them, unless they needed them in the future.

Physical layout and menu structures differ by manufacturer more than by the complexity of the camera
 
Cameras are fairly simple to use devices, if the person using it has the relevant skill / understanding.

The problem is that some newbies think that a camera is an appliance (where selecting the correct mode gives the right result) whereas in reality they’re closer to a musical instrument, where knowledge of technique and a certain amount of creativity is what actually creates the image.

I’ll add in that ‘entry level’ cameras are designed not to make life easy for entry level photographers, but to create an upgrade path to benefit manufacturers.

The vast majority of my photography involves me turning a single dial to select my DoF whilst I press one button to focus, and another to capture the image. However, it takes a lot of knowledge and experience to get me to that as a start point, and I know exactly when and how to take back as much control as necessary.
 
Phil V said:
Cameras are fairly simple to use devices, if the person using it has the relevant skill / understanding.

The problem is that some newbies think that a camera is an appliance (where selecting the correct mode gives the right result) whereas in reality they’re closer to a musical instrument, where knowledge of technique and a certain amount of creativity is what actually creates the image.

I’ll add in that ‘entry level’ cameras are designed not to make life easy for entry level photographers, but to create an upgrade path to benefit manufacturers.

The vast majority of my photography involves me turning a single dial to select my DoF whilst I press one button to focus, and another to capture the image. However, it takes a lot of knowledge and experience to get me to that as a start point, and I know exactly when and how to take back as much control as necessary.
Click to expand...
To use your musical instrument analogy, an entry level camera at times is a bit like the idea of a 'simplified guitar' with just the Low E, D and High E strings - with only 3 strings it would obviously be much easier to play... :D
 
Faldrax said:
To use your musical instrument analogy, an entry level camera at times is a bit like the idea of a 'simplified guitar' with just the Low E, D and High E strings - with only 3 strings it would obviously be much easier to play... :D
Click to expand...
Like how many pick up a ukelele as a starter instrument or a recorder. ;)
 
Phil V said:
Like how many pick up a ukelele as a starter instrument or a recorder. ;)
Click to expand...

I have used 'starter' guitars for gigging - for a while my main slide guitar was a £35 First Act off eBay - but I have 40+ years experience and know how to work around their shortcomings. As a new player I'd have improved much faster with a US Strat or Tele.
 
I recently went to Donnington with my brother, who at the age of 60 is wanting to improve on the pictures he has been taking.
He was using a Lumix DMC-FZ1000, which is, from what I could see, quite a capeable bridge camera.

This is not a camera he picked for himself but a 'hand me up' from his son-in-law.

Now I tried to explain to him the exposure triangle which he seemed to understand and I explained the basics of what effects adjusting each side
of the triangle would have on the final picture.
Again he took it onboard.

But the next part, moving off fully auto, to make the changes was the most complex thing I have had to try and figure out!
We figured it out eventually and put in some settings that worked for the day.
But then, only a couple of weeks later, we were out again and had to go through the figuring out stages again.

So what I'm saying is, someone new to photography needs a simple to use camera.

When I learnt, I had a shutter speed dial on the camera, an aperature dial with depth of field on the lens and I set the ISO when I bought the film.
 
DE65Y said:
He was using a Lumix DMC-FZ1000, which is, from what I could see, quite a capeable bridge camera.
Click to expand...
We went through this the other week, bridge cameras might pretend to allow control, but they’re really not capable, and genuinely a ‘proper’ camera is easier to use.
 
Phil V said:
We went through this the other week, bridge cameras might pretend to allow control, but they’re really not capable, and genuinely a ‘proper’ camera is easier to use.
Click to expand...

They do sometimes offer a shutter or aperture priority mode on the main dial, but if that's an option buried in a menu then like 'manual focus ' it's just a token gesture for marketing.
 
DE65Y said:
When I learnt, I had a shutter speed dial on the camera, an aperature dial with depth of field on the lens and I set the ISO when I bought the film.
Click to expand...

Me too. One might say life was simpler then but even today, most of the time I use only those very same things (apart from the ISO, which is much more versatile) on my ultra-modern camera, everything else it does is just a convenience.
 
Faldrax said:
an entry level camera at times is a bit like the idea of a 'simplified guitar' with just the Low E, D and High E strings
Click to expand...
I think the analogy is stretching.... :) A guitar with three strings is unusable, or it's an out of tune Balalaika. Using an entry level camera that doesn't work properly would be closer to a guitar with strings missing.

In answer to the OP (and not really knowing what they mean by amateur): Without a doubt the biggest barrier to entry I discovered running courses for adults was the bewildering array of buttons, settings, and dials along with badly designed UIs in camera menu systems. Almost all cameras could perform normally, but making that happen was an exercise in frustration for many. Smaller compacts with fiddly buttons and overly sensitive touch screens compounded the problem.

Teaching the basics of shutter, aperture and ISO was easy. People got it. The fear started when they tried to make their cameras do what they wanted. I remember showing them the Fuji X-T1 I had at the time, and as one they all commented on the fact that it was so easy to operate. The thing is, it's easy to operate when you know what these things are. It's gibberish to someone who hasn't a clue. Practise, perseverance and experience is the answer. Those who persevere with their menu buttons soon become proficient in diving into the settings. Some people though, prefer an easier camera to use because they've forgotten it after 5 minutes - especially turning on and off of exposure preview - I lost hours Googling that one for various camera manufacturers.

My R6 is set up just how I like it. I can operate it quickly and apart from forgetting which button turns face detection on/off and confusing it with the button for focus switching, I'm pretty quick with it. The rest of my stuff is film, and that's just super easy to use apart from the late 90s/early noughties automatic SLRs that are just as confusing to use.

The only camera I got rid of pretty quickly was a Panasonic TZ100 (I think?) Small compact designed for right eye dominant photographers with a lot of reliance on a touch screen that my nose would play havoc with every time I had the camera to my face. Had to turn the touch screen off and then fight with a [really bad IMO] menu system to do what I wanted.

Phew, that ended up being longer than I planned.
 
camerajamie said:
The needs for amateur photographers is very different to people who enjoy photography and as a result different cameras are targeted at this group. What are some things that the camera manufacturers could do to improve the user experience of amateur photographers
Click to expand...
Finer grain emulsion on collodion plates would be my ask
 
Last edited:
If most people, amateurs and pro's read the manual or watched online tutorials for their make/model the whole experience would be a lot easier and more enjoyable, too many people expect the camera to do everything for them these days, the obsession with eye AF is an example. Learn how to use your tools.
 
ancient_mariner said:
They do sometimes offer a shutter or aperture priority mode on the main dial, but if that's an option buried in a menu then like 'manual focus ' it's just a token gesture for marketing.
Click to expand...
They do appear to offer those modes, but what's the point of aperture priority to control the DoF when the sensor is so small that the largest aperture of f4.5 means everything from 6 feet away to infinity is in focus at standardish focal lengths. Also if you remember that thread - the manual showed that every SS wasn't available in A, S or M.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top